BYD Dolphin

Markcheese

There are different business models,

Theres the likes of tesla that want to make everything in house , vertical integration,

There'll be those that largely buy in their components , and thats fine too ,some may make their own batteries to someone elses design ,

When mercedes uses a renault engine , or half the cars on the road use the same 1.6 diesel , no one really cares..

But yeah - you wont pay 15 grand extra for the same thing ..

unkel

@Markcheese - "Theres the likes of tesla that want to make everything in house , vertical integration"

Tesla don't make the batteries for their entry level cars now. They buy them in from Chinese companies CATL and BYD. I'd imagine this could be more than half of their new cars sold worldwide at this stage.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058203926/byd-dolphin

The 30.72 kWh battery pack will provide a range of 301 km*, and the 44.93 kWh battery pack will allow a noticeably longer range of 405 km*

So efficiencies of 10.2 and 11.1 kWh/100km

Fantastic if true, but I'd be suspicious

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764764#Comment_117764764

No, BYD blade batteries and the whole BYD drive train are amongst the most efficient, close to Tesla in fact. BYD make their own batteries to their own cars. And they also supply Tesla with batteries. But the efficiency of BYD cars is all down to the expertise and the fact that the car is made as pure BEV top to bottom and they've had a lot of experience with it for many years as the largest Chinese EV maker and 2nd largest global EV maker.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058203926/byd-dolphin

Electric Viking has been wrong on many things by the way. Don't take him too seriously.

Also, BYD won't be selling 31 kWh cars in Europe, that's ludicrous. It's going to be most likely only 60 kWh (as Atto 3) and maybe maybe the 45 kWh one. But I wouldn't do that if I were them, unless it's seriously cheap.

McGiver

There you go.

BYD Dolphin Launches In Europe Starting At €29,990 (insideevs.com)

https://www.carwow.co.uk/byd/news/6860/new-byd-dolphin-price-specs

New BYD Dolphin Active

Base-model Active versions of the Dolphin have a smaller battery and a 95hp electric motor. You also get an energy-efficient heat pump as standard, as well as 60kW DC fast charging. This model starts from 29,990 Euros, which is around £25,800.

New BYD Dolphin Boost

The Boost uses the same battery as the Active, however it has a more powerful 176hp motor. You also get 17.0-inch alloy wheels and multi-link rear suspension for better comfort and handling. In Europe, this model costs 32,740 Euros, or £28,000.

New BYD Dolphin Comfort

The BYD Dolphin Comfort comes with a larger 60kWh battery for better range, and you have 88kW DC fast charging for faster top-ups on the go. It also has a more powerful 204hp motor. The price of this version in Europe is 36,200 Euros, or approximately £31,200.

New BYD Dolphin Design

Range-topping design models have the same motor and battery as the Comfort, however it adds a panoramic glass sunroof, rear privacy glass and wireless phone charging. You also get vehicle-to-load charging, meaning you can use the car to power appliances. This version will set you back 37,740 Euros in Europe, which is £32,500.

McGiver

Different prices here.

https://www.completecar.ie/car-reviews/article/BYD/Dolphin/Dolphin_60.4kWh_%282023%29/2167/12505/2023-BYD-Dolphin-60.4kWh-%282023%29-review.html

If BYD don't go full on undercut / cheap then they won't succeed in the EU market as an unknown and obviously Chinese brand.

It's a bit different than MG, which has some residual awareness, especially in the UK.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745493#Comment_120745493

211 miles or 340km on a 45kWh battery suggests 13kWh/100km.

Definitely more realistic, certainly more realistic that Tesla who claim a 60kWh battery will get you 491km or 12.2kWh/100km

McGiver

As expected - BYD will launch with 60 kWh battery and 45 kWh will come later. After testing the market, I guess and to set the price right.

Few more details on trims & pricing here:

BYD Dolphin - Full Review & Drive - All You Need to Know - YouTube

The prices can't be real. If that's the indeed the case then BYD could be sucessful and rival the MG.

MG4 efficiency sucks and the car has plenty of issues and deficiencies. The BYD Dolphin seems to be a solid car overall. It's a very efficient car from the most experienced EV maker apart from Tesla.

unkel

@McGiver - "The prices can't be real"

Why not? BYD will likely be the biggest car maker in the world within 7-10 years. They are already far bigger of course than the likes of MG so they can sell more car for less money while still making more margin.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745737#Comment_120745737

I expected cheaper as an unknown brand and the huge economies of scale they have

Anyone that's driving a brand new MG4, Tesla SR etc are driving a BYD powered car

They are about the only manufacturer in the world that could sell a 60kWh family car for 25k and make a profit

I think the 45kWh Dolphin will be sub 25k when it arrives and they have the next gen blade battery coming next year with 25% more energy density

slave1

Tesla SR are not BYD, they are Panasonic or CATL in the main (made in USA). All Irish newer Teslas are CATL in the main also.

Perhaps LHD Berlin cars are blade but none of those on our roads

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120741395#Comment_120741395

Ye alright maybe just 2. I was thinking Renault, Peugeot, Citroën and DS but I know Peugeot, Citroen and DS are all part of the same group so yes maybe only 2 Auto companies in France now.

Markcheese

And a very large chunk of PSA is owned by a chinese auto company , well really theyre stellantis now , so thats Peugeot, citroen, opel merged with fiat chrysler ,

Markcheese

Dongfeng motors owned nearly 16 % of PSA, and now own 3.17 % of stellantis , so not as big a share as i thought

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746192#Comment_120746192

Your right its the Y in Berlin that has them

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120748708#Comment_120748708

It's not even certain that they are being rolled out yet in Berlin. But they will be. Saves Tesla about $1500 per car too compared with the CATL pack. That is huge.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746192#Comment_120746192

I stand corrected. Looks like only model Y are BYD at the moment.

dloob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120745473#Comment_120745473

Doesn't matter how efficient it is, The NEDC range is the NEDC range and NEDC is a rubbish test standard.

I see we now have WLTP range of 370km for the model that seems closest to the 405km NEDC range model.

Still not readily achievable in the real world but better than NEDC at least.

Bigger battery model is 427km WLTP which is a bit disappointing, Tesla Model 3 with the same size CATL LFP battery is 520km.

Still it is cheap, if rather ugly both inside and out IMHO, although not as bad inside as the atto 3 at least so moving in the right direction.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752165#Comment_120752165

Nobody is using NEDC anymore.

https://press.bydauto.be/byd-dolphin-leaps-into-europe

BYD WLTP figures are as follows.

Range: 427 km

Rated Consumption: 159 Wh/km

https://ev-database.org/car/1919/BYD-DOLPHIN-604-kWh

As per EV database - Vehicle Consumption 142 Wh/km.

unkel

@dloob - "Bigger battery model is 427km WLTP which is a bit disappointing, Tesla Model 3 with the same size CATL LFP battery is 520km."

Are you surprised? Tesla has the most efficient drivetrain in the business. The gap between those figures will be significantly bigger again on motorway range as the Tesla is far more aerodynamic. Not that either matters much, the cars don't compete.

AMKC

I would love to know what everyone thinks of the coloured alloys? I think they are cool and if they done them in blue, pink and white I might even consider buying one of these in a few years.

McGiver

Irish BYD Doplhin web page is up.

https://www.bydauto.ie/en/dolphin

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805314#Comment_120805314

I see the prices are up too

I was thinking the car is small but it seems it is longer than Kona and a bit shorter than Niro. I'm not on the market but I fail to see how the new Kona will sell at about 15k difference

Fian

Exactly the same battery and motor as the Atto 3, with a different body put on top of it. I went for the Atto 3 because i prefer the higher driving position but tbh the difference in price was difficult to justify really. When we replace our current remaining ICE we may well go for this.

innrain

From beepbeep sales figures, the most popular cars for this size are Corola and Yaris Cross which are a bit more expensive than this Dolphin. So the excuse that there are no cheap EVs is gone gone. It remains the one with the infrastructure, where it is still a game of catch up, with domestic networks still installing chargers which others started installing 4 years ago but it got a bit better.

I know it is just the beginning but the likes of ID3, Megane, Kona, Niro will have to get cheaper. They are 30-50% more expensive for less features.

TitianGerm

Electrifying had a YouTube video up on the Dolphin last week and it's far bigger than I thought. It wasn't much smaller than an ID3 in their comparison.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108329#Comment_121108329

Lot of car for the money.

This price is like 10k below comparable EVs (ID3?) and even slightly less to ICEs like Toyota. This is a price gauging from BYD trying to see at what price they can get a market share in the EU quickly. It's close to a pricing at cost with minimum margin, in my opinion, given the transport costs, duties, EU regs, marketing, dealerships etc.

But....

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-von-der-leyen-anti-subsidy-investigation-into-chinese-e-cars/

The EU will likely slam extra tarriffs on Chinese cars. Which will be bad for us (the consumers) and for the electric transition (for everyone really - air pollution).

Nobody is going to buy VW/Stellantis electric hatchbacks/small SUVs for 40k in large numbers. VW/Stellantis failed to innovate, because we have really no competition between carmakers in the EU unlike in China. Allegedly, it was the French automotive (surprise surprise) who were pushing for this EU probe and extra tariffs. The Germans are more cautious as they have joint ventures in China and manufacture cars there, so it would hit them too.

djan

I don't think that the Dolphin being substantially cheaper like for like necessarily means dumping is happening. Manufacturing in China is just cheaper due to lower operating costs and much higher levels of technology and innovation. European manufacturers have been living off their brand perception for a long time. With Kia/Hyundai and MG making huge inroads in the budget/value proposition market it is only a matter of time until "unknown" (to the West) brands are gunning it for the upper market as well. Comparing the likes of the Dolphin to a similar price Polo 1.0 poverty spec, there's just no comparison and that's on VW.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130175#Comment_121130175

With Kia/Hyundai and MG making huge inroads in the budget/value proposition market.

It's a long time since Kia or Hyundai were budget cars do. Thet are not that anymore.

MG are yes.