Kanturk deaths - Greed , Pure and Simple !

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739616#Comment_117739616

Learn their taught processes and preceived grievences,which lead to this situation escalting to level it did

And launch a state funded agency to intervene/mediate to prevent similar happening again??

Theres people in ireland tonight,likely going to bed with similar grievences,any assistance/help to prevent this happening again are meritable imo,but its simply unattainable,if you demand one side,whom were spurned into compleltly excessive actions, not be heard,nor listened too.......deosnt make much sense to me

retro:electro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739577#Comment_117739577

Are you insinuating that the mother was hiding something?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739623#Comment_117739623

The gardai will have the suicide notes and all reports they need.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739645#Comment_117739645

I meant lessons for future situations where they here of possibly bad situations in family homes where there are licensed firearms.

I hope the notes that pair left behind are never read into any public record tbh. I don't think they deserve any say after what they did.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739644#Comment_117739644

How could you come to a conclusion my post infers that

retro:electro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739667#Comment_117739667

Oh so you’re just talking shite then? Why bother? We know the facts. Whatever they have to say is twisted and irrelevant. Who wants to hear the deranged words from two lunatics who thought it made sense to kill themselves and their family member in order to prevent them inheriting a piece of a farm. I think it’s safe to assume that anything they have to say is paranoid and deranged lunacy. Anything they have to say would defy logic in a rational person’s brain.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739615#Comment_117739615

I do not, I just find it amusing how barely anyone shows any interest in why this happened, because the preferred approach is to label someone as “evil”. Life must be so simple.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739685#Comment_117739685

Maybe YOU think YOU do know all the facts...I certainly dont and don't pretend to know either.

retro:electro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739701#Comment_117739701

If there was anything substantial in the notes it would have been included somewhere along the line. Maybe there is no “reason”. Maybe it’s as simple as they were two greedy imbeciles and greed and jealously ate them alive, and I’d wager anything they wrote in their suicide notes was more paranoid drivel that blamed the mother for not giving all she had to the youngest. I highly, highly doubt there was anything in there that would make people understand why they did this or prevent future, equally disturbed lunatics, from doing the same.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739724#Comment_117739724

Often people think thought police is an actual thing.

Maybe we can get some precogs to foresee crimes like this.

The only realistic way this may have been prevented is if the guards had taken away firearms once a complaint and restraining order was made. Anything else is just fantasy.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739755#Comment_117739755

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739724#Comment_117739724

Would having no firearms being available in the household lessened their alleged grievances in a obviously divided family unit and it being a farm...lots of potential weaponry lying around

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739799#Comment_117739799

It would have lessened the chances of mass destruction yes.

Electric Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739799#Comment_117739799

It would have been just another beat her head in with an ax scenario. The heart wants what the heart wants...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739724#Comment_117739724

There is no conceivable "reason" anywhere in what happened

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739799#Comment_117739799

Tbf gaurds do.confesicate firearms regularly around the country at any sign of trouble and they never return em

byhookorbycrook

Grew up close by . If it wasn’t by gun , the murders would have happened by another instrument. Can we let this lie, please ? Too many people have been seriously impacted already .

screamer

I haven’t read up all the details and I don’t really want to. From what I have read, it seems to me to have been a spiteful tit for tat. She took away that which they treasured most ( the farm) and they took away her most treasured son and left her alive to suffer terribly on top of her terminal illness. Awful.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739695#Comment_117739695

I’d be interested in their attempted reasoning purely out of morbid fascination. But nothing they would say would make me have any sympathy with them or what they did.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117740451#Comment_117740451

It’s not about sympathy. It wasn’t a “normal” reaction to a dispute, which suggests that there was a complicated background. It’d be a shame if the only lesson taken from this was that the perpetrators were pure and simply evil.

Ish66

I would love to hear the logic behind their ''Let's kill ourselves'' conversation. Interesting theories abound.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117738967#Comment_117738967

Seeing his wife inherited the farm in 2013...maybe being the husband.... maybe felt his name should also be added on the the title/deeds at that time ...that expectation could cause resentment that could explore at any time.

FoFo1254122

Mental health issues affect every family in Ireland, as a country we have A lot of mental health issues here.

but government after government do **** all about it because of the huge costs that would be involved, cost would billions per year in providing services and assistance to people who suffer with their mental health and their families. Impossible to get help

if you think about it logically it’s not evil or greed that caused this sad case, but very poor mental health issues. A good friend of mine had a serious mental episode 2 years ago and had to be sectioned - he can never be left alone with his children again, doctors believe he always had issues but these grew worse over time. I knew that man all my life but was astonished when I heard this. It scared me.

I can only guess but I assume the father/son on this case had developed some shared delusional disorder. very sad case

Randy Archer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117738793#Comment_117738793

He (father) didn’t though ! Stick to the facts of the case .

Also, there was nothing on the facts of the case that said that the parents were divorced or judicially separated . In that situation , until the other spouse legal right share has been revoked, their legal right share takes priority over anything that’s mentioned in his will (section 111 of the 1965 Act)

Randy Archer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117738578#Comment_117738578

Yes and no

If it can be proven (high threshold) by the child that the parent failed to properly provide for the child during the lifetime of the parent … the child can make a successful application before the court challenging the will - Section 117 of the Succession Act 1965

Refrain from expressing opinions on topics that you know little about - some gobshite might actually swallow what you said

Randy Archer

you can tell who doesn’t own land and never will inherit land . clueless 😂

land is always worth killing for ! The trick is to get away with it , reasonably well in tact .

Bull McCabe

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117741067#Comment_117741067

It was reported that the father had willed his own farm to 1 of his sons...and if his wife had passed away before him ....his will instructions I presume would be legal after his death....

Randy Archer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117741159#Comment_117741159

if she passed away first all would be fine . Even if she didn’t pass away first , she very well might not challenge the will and would be more than happy that one fo the kids got the goods .

However , if she did survive and she didn’t waive or lose her rights to a portion of his property in the will , that might cause issues as she’d be within her right to rely on her statutory rights to over rule part of the will

Moral of story, make sure every scenario is covered when you have property and family and up date it regularly

What I’m responding to is to rebut the assumption that x makes a will he or she can do what they like . For most part that’s true , but not always

however in general , (and not touching on the case)

man makes a will. Gives all his property to someone . Refuses to give anything to wife for whatever reason

Wife is still the lawful wife , she doesn’t get a penny from said will , she never renounced her statutory rights while he was alive (loads of spouses agree not to bequest the other and give to the kids ) and doesn’t lose her statutory right via Judicial Separation or divorce or doesn’t become unworthy to succeed (eg Catherine Nevin) wife gets priority over everyone else mentioned in the will to the value of her statutory entitlement

it’s one of the rare times that the law will ignore the testators intentions

lesson for the day :

if you are at a point when making a will, AND even if the wife is financially sound , AND you want to bequest the kids of your assets that are NOT held jointly with the wife (normally the family home , excluding farm land , who gets that asset automatically on your death and it doesn’t form part of the will)

get wifie to irrevocably waive her entitlement to your estate in writing

for many reasons , good and bad , wifie might need to claim her statutory entitlement on your death due to their financial needs . Causes headaches for the beneficiaries who may be very disappointed when the estate is diluted to meet the wife’s statutory right if she insists on it

This gets messier if you have broken up with the wife but no judicial separation or divorce has concluded

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117741185#Comment_117741185

If that's your argument..are you also saying her husband would be entitled to part of her farm if things went as normal and she having a terminal illness leading to her ultimate death before him even if she wanted to will it to both sons

maestroamado

I go to church on a Sunday

The vows that I make, I break them on Monday

The rest of the week, I do as I please

Then come Sunday morning, I pray on my knees....

I remember this when i think of us as a people... I have no view on this case as i always avoid these depressing stories..

I think we are very selfish as a people. I have seen quite a few where there were obvious difficulties within families resulting in suicide and no-one ever tries to make any effort to ask "how are things going"

We wait until after the event and do "darkness into light" and pray. We need to be more pro-active and open as a people...

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117741185#Comment_117741185

But in this particular case the husband know his wife had terminal diagnosis so he'd outlive her so your argument doesn't matter