Kanturk deaths - Greed , Pure and Simple !

MisterAnarchy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117709868#Comment_117709868

The father was a mechanic at a local garage.

Very quiet and pleasant man.

People that knew him well were completely shocked as to what happened.

retro:electro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708139#Comment_117708139

They made the last few remaining months of her life a living hell. That is the saddest thing of all for me.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117709917#Comment_117709917

Spot on. Disputes about inheritance are common, but murder/ murder suicide less so.

There are countless indicators that there was serious dysfunctions in the family. A good few things sound very familiar to me. It’s never as black and white as it first appears to be.

retro:electro

“Mark had feared so much for his own safety and that of his mother that he slept at the foot of her bed”

How sad. Just horrendous.

148multi

I think it was more about control, a neighbour of mine now deceased, a very pleasant and helpful man. Controlled everything about his wife, some neighbours thought she was snobby, but she was terrified while underneath the most beautiful and caring woman I've known.

It seems to me that they wanted to control what happened at whatever cost, I also am sorry I've read the article.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710084#Comment_117710084

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710084#Comment_117710084

The desire to control others is a mental health issue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710008#Comment_117710008

tbf, we'd all be shocked if that happened to anyone, I wouldn't put any stock in a person being called "quiet and pleasant" in the immediate aftermath of his death, it's a generic phrase we use to not speak ill of the dead. If Pablo Escobar had been shot in (say) Athlone RTE would have found someone who'd say "he was a quiet and pleasant man, who was always willing to lend a hand to anyone who needed it." Unless of course he was "known to the Gardaí" which is of course code for "well, I'm not saying he had it coming but it's not a surprise to me he came to a bad end" but I don't think I've heard (or will ever hear) a direct quote on RTE in the immediate aftermath of a death where someone has said "he was an awful header, he'd bate you as soon as look at you and frankly, we're all relieved he's been offed".

HildaOgdenx

Truly horrific, and sad beyond words.

And now the land is there after all of them, and no use to any of them. It's hard to imagine how things went so badly wrong within what was presumably an ordinary family, at one stage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117709814#Comment_117709814

I hate this as a “culture” nonsense. Most of us don’t have farming land, even outside cities. For my siblings the agreement that the parental house will be divided equally which is probably common for city or town houses unless somebody wants to live there.

All that land is no good to any of them.now

Imagine pestering your dying mother/wife over it,id walk away at home before id carryon like that

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710056#Comment_117710056

I am seriously wondering why they decided to return to the house if they were so scared. This is something I really don’t get

retro:electro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710389#Comment_117710389

I was wondering that too. The article said they had only returned the day before after attending a hospital appointment in Dublin. Could be as simple as she wanted to be at home in her own bed, and thought maybe things had blown over. The poor woman. Up and down trying to get her treatment to prolong her life is taxing enough, never mind all of this shite hawking going on around her. I am so sad for what she endured.

spurious

She told shocked neighbour's after running for almost one kilometre that she had been left unharmed by the duo so she could suffer.

That's a special sort of sick.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710389#Comment_117710389

I guess, perpetrator or perpetrators gain control as in any abuse situation, after that there is plenty of other factors in play, mental health, traditions, religions and list goes on, I can imagine it's hard for victims to escape it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710389#Comment_117710389

Happens fairly commonly for abused people to return to the abusers but also, even if you think on some level your son and husband are going to kill you, I doubt you really believe they are capable of actually doing it. It's a very hard thing to actually believe.

We'll never know but I wonder if her solicitor made her aware of the Court options like barring orders and safety orders she could have gotten and if so, why she didn't go for them.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710578#Comment_117710578

Seriously, I grew up in a family of that kind and still can’t understand why someone would stay in a situation like that.

Also, the murder/ suicide approach to make the victim suffer is generally only chosen when there appears no other option left, so the suicide makes sense. What I don’t get is why they decided to kill the brother because there was no way they could have gotten away with it.

Deise Vu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710627#Comment_117710627

I’m not trying to be funny but do you think these two psychos who shot their brother/son in cold blood would have said: damn it, we could murder him and commit suicide only for that court order.

They actually said” there’s your solicitor’s letter” to that poor woman after pumping a few more rounds into the victim.

Thd thread title is wrong, it wasn’t greed seeing as they got nothing but some twisted satisfaction out of torturing the mother, it was sick, depraved and evil. Pure and simple.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710978#Comment_117710978

That solicitors letter that was sent to them must have some controversial wording written in it if they reacted the way they did by mentioning while committing that carnage at the house.

Deise Vu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711014#Comment_117711014

I think probably controversial in the eyes of the beholders but not to normal sane people. I am flabbergasted that people are implying that the two psychos were triggered someway.

The land was let, it’s not like psycho junior was working it, he had just graduated from college. It was going to be split two ways but he felt that he should get more because the other brother was lazy. I struggle to think of a more twisted act. That psycho Hawe murdered his wife first which almost seems like an act of mercy compared to these evil bastards.

seamus

People stay/return for all sorts of reasons. In general we tend to have the biggest, most blazing, most vicious and hurtful rows with our families. But you reconcile because there is room in the relationship to do so and you still love them. It's a massive leap altogether from insane row to cruel and inhumane assassination.

Because ultimately what this pair did went beyond just getting him out of the way. It was cruel, designed to not be quick or simple, either for Mark or his mother. It's really, really hard to fathom at all how it came to that point.

My parents were always very clear that they would spend what they had, they would support us until we were capable of looking after ourselves, and from then on they'd spend how they please and enjoy themselves because you can't take it with you. They wouldn't be making an effort to leave anything behind. Whatever is left when they're both gone will be divided equally, no ifs, or buts or entitlements. So I find it really, really, difficult to even begin to understand what goes through peoples' heads when they get so worked up about inheritance.

In my mind, ideally we would do away with wills in general as an archaic remnant of a more selfish mindset. Instead, wills could be made to cover the distribution of things without value (keepsakes, etc), to provide for things like guardianship, and express any other wishes. Items of value; assets, land, bank accounts; would be divided along fixed rules (similar to intestacy). If someone wants a particular individual to have a particular piece of land or a larger share of some money, then they have to make arrangements to transfer it before they die.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710325#Comment_117710325

It's telling that Accommodation & Property and the Farming Forums are filed under 'Society & Culture' on Boards.

Normally quiet people get worked up when money and/or property are at stake. Doesn't have to be rural either, someone takes a bit of your suburban garden with a fence and a mini Bull McCabe comes out.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711067#Comment_117711067

But if the father alone committed the murder/suicide....his remaining favourite son would get both farms...but maybe father and son were inseparable without each other.

HildaOgdenx

In relation to the mother and son returning, I remember reading somewhere that they were effectively 'lured' back. Possibly the two murderers told them that everything could be sorted amicably or something.

It's actually surreal to try and imagine it happening as it did. Unimaginable what the mother and son went through in the final months of their lives, and with her battling cancer also. May they both rest in peace.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710978#Comment_117710978

Not in the sense that the Court Order would have stopped them but it would have alerted the Gardaí that something was up, possibly even the suspension of their firearms licenses and seizure of the guns. It's not an ideal solution but getting them out of the house might have even injected some sanity into the situation.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711157#Comment_117711157

There would also be the chance that Anne could have sold it completely and the son would get nothing from her. But it sounds like cruelty was one of the motivating factors for doing what they did. After everything they'd done, it would be difficult for the younger son to come out of it clean and not at least be charged as a conspirator in his father's actions.

Gatling

Sick bastards shouldn't even have been granted a funeral ,the father must have fuelled the whole situation ,his only son was getting the farm , absolutely useless headcases,

Makes you wonder why farmers are treated differently in divorce and separation of marriages , imagine telling a farmer getting divorced he has to sell the farm and give half the proceeds to the ex-wife or kids .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708559#Comment_117708559

The parents should leave it to charity in that case.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711236#Comment_117711236

When you say 'his only son' what do you mean? Was the elder boy from a different relationship, or adopted/fostered?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711254#Comment_117711254

That's what the father said to the mother apparently ,he seems to have denied his eldest son existed

shesty

I just don't get it at all.It's not like the land cares who it is owned by and at the end of the day, the land wil be there longer than any owner.And how the father was persuaded into being an accomplice....it makes no sense.Incomprehensible.