Pregnant women's vaccinated partners not allowed to stay with them in hospitals.

political analyst

In an opinion peace published in today's Indo, Social Democrat TD Holly Cairns wrote that she has been contacted by numerous couples - where a woman was pregnant and both partners were fully-vaccinated - that they and their partners have been told that vaccination makes no difference and thus that the partners are still being denied entry to maternity hospitals all over the country. The Psychological Society of Ireland said that the exclusion of partners has a negative impact on women's mental health because the women are deprived of the emotional and physical support that their partners would provide during scans and appointments.

She wrote that a man who contacted her office spoke of his anguish at having to remain outside while his wife miscarried in hospital. He had driven his wife there and had been told to leave. Then, he spent hours driving aimlessly.

Cairns also wrote that nobody has given an adequate answer as to why these restrictions are in place and that it's probably because of a perceived lack of political power due to women, unlike pubs and restaurants, not having a lobby group and thus being very low on the list of the government's priorities.

So why has Stephen Donnelly not lifted the restrictions on the presence of pregnant women's partners in hospitals? Why does being fully vaccinated not make a difference to the restrictions? It only takes a stroke of a pen to end the torment.

political analyst

The case of the man whose wife miscarried - their case was mentioned by Cairns in the article - is detailed in the following article from last month.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/man-says-trying-to-console-his-wife-through-text-as-she-miscarried-was-barbaric-1212904

What is at the root of the heartlessness of whoever wouldn't let that man comfort his wife?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675003#Comment_117675003

A desire not to have to console other people whose pregnant partners got Covid (or the flu, or novovirus or MRSA or whatever) because of an unnecessary person being in the hospital.

It is clearly the hospital themselves that are keeping these restrictions. A colleague of mine, his wife had a baby two weeks ago, there was no restrictions on him, and the wife was in for a full week.

Pauliedragon

This was put to Donnelly a while back and his answer was it's up to the management at each individual hospital to make their own rules regarding restrictions suggesting it's out of his control. Whether that's him passing the buck or not nobody knows I suppose.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675220#Comment_117675220

Its obviously not related to health. Probably take a whistleblower for us to find out.

aziz

Bloody stupid carry on, so hospitals can make their own rules and their boss,the HSE can’t do anything about it

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675003#Comment_117675003

Hysteria

jimmycrackcorm

It makes sense to restrict as much as possible the number of people in a hospital, the one place where there are concentrated numbers of ill patients.

We already know that covid is more dangerous to people with underlying conditions so restrictive measures are simply necessary.

Being vaccinated also doesn't change that. It's obvious that once you are going l fully vaccinated, you are going to be less cautious sir to your own lower self risk and possibly more likely to spread it while being asymptomatic.

suicide_circus

Covid is all that matters in our society now. Compassion and dignity are for the weak and selfish covidiots.

rahmalec

This is real crAp.

My wife gave birth last year and had serious complications (ok now thankfully, baby also grand). She was completely out of it and they wouldn’t tell her what was wrong with her. She was giving me the odd WhatsApp pic of the baby and I thought all was ok. It was only on the 4th day in hospital when she said she was being given a 3rd blood transfusion that I started to worry.

It was only when her sister who’s a nurse in a different hospital said “hey that’s not normal” that she rang the ward (I didn’t know ringing a specific ward in a hospital was a possible thing), that she found out what was wrong (big hemmorage), and then suddenly my wife didn’t think she was dying anymore with weird symptoms.

Had I been there to see her I would have copped all this and be able to take care of her and baby as needed. She got no help in hospital, trying to change nappies while trying not to faint from anemia and breastfeed one-handed while hooked up to blood.

It was definitely a traumatic experience that will stay with her forever really.

Why could I not just take a damn test and come in, sure I’d be happy going in in a hazmat suit if needed.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679559#Comment_117679559

That sounds horrific. I had a similar experience to your wife when I had my first child. Thankfully my husband was around to help me or I dont know how I would have managed as the staff didnt seem to care that I was so weak I couldnt even lift the baby and I was in severe pain. Also as it was my first I thought feeling weak and severe pain was normal. I found you really do need a partner to speak up for you as you may not be aware of yourself. My heart goes out to any woman who had or has to give birth with these restrictions in place. I think there will be alot of women left traumatised by their birth experiences.

radiotrickster

I just saw on Twitter a woman on a labour ward said a teenager in the bed opposite is roaring because her mother had to leave. This is such a traumatic, desperate situation.

Donnelly needs to put more pressure on hospitals to lift restrictions. It’s pure cruelty to leave the woman in need of support that a loved one or partner can give, and to leave the partner stuck outside feeling useless. And it must be miserable for the partners to know they’re missing bonding in the first few days of their child’s life.

If the government can arrange PCR tests for gigs, they can figure this out.

crooked cockney villain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117680599#Comment_117680599

The Twitter woman is a Socialist according to her bio. I'd take absolutely any story from any leftist activist who uses Twitter with a winter ice gritter sized pinch of salt.

crooked cockney villain

Has Ruth Coppinger left a normal, regular person adminning her Twitter? Her posts are using bizarre, normal folk terminology.

"Heaven and earth was moved to get drinking and dining open but girls and women are going thru pregnancy and birth without support"

Ruth and her band of lunatics normally refer to "pregnant people". Normally the above quote would be viewed as exclusionary to biological women who identify as men/ non binary but still find themselves pregnant.

Be right back

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675161#Comment_117675161

Harsh view on things.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679971#Comment_117679971

Many, many women have birthed and raised children without a father in sight.

What this is really exposing is the abysmal midwifery staffing levels in our hospitals.

Women should not be having the horrific experiences described here, because their should be adequate numbers of vetted, trained, qualified and registered health care professionals to care for them. Because there aren't, many women have come to depend on their unvetted, untrained, unqualified sex and/or life partners instead. Having these people in labour and post-birth Wards raises all sorts of risks.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686047#Comment_117686047

I agree with you on staffing levels but this is a problem thats not going to be solved anytime soon. Once you give birth you are pretty much on your own as regards care of the baby which is hard for first time mums or mums who are unwell - they need the support of their partners. Fathers being at the birth and helping to look after the baby and mum in those first few days is so important for bonding and also for the recovery of the mum.

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686047#Comment_117686047

And many of those women who didn't have the father with them had the support from someone else, their own mother or their sister etc. And just because it was done before doesn't mean that we should put up and shut up now.

Having a partner with them who can advocate for them is important and on a practical level who can help care for the baby, if the mother has difficulties after the birth due to blood loss, c-section etc. That's not even considering the women who have miscarriages or get bad news at a scan.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686047#Comment_117686047

Hopefully, the fact that the HSE recruitment embargo was lifted last year means that more midwives will be recruited.

c.p.w.g.w

My buddy has been out in the car park while his wife is currently going through labour...she is into hour 11, and his not allowed in...it's a complete joke

mojesius

I went through something similar last October. Second birth. Even though there was more complications on my first, the birth of my second child was far more traumatic, despite it being a more 'normal' birth.

24 hours on the labour ward, completely alone, slow labour, constant pain, the odd midwife coming in to offer paracetamol, a hot water bottle or to check your blood pressure. My husband slept in the car. I was totally exhausted and in agony and I was ignored. The midwives kept telling me completely conflicting information of what was happening.

I'm no stranger to pain. I've had several surgeries and treatments and I'd been through childbirth before. But that time on the labour ward I spent alone, ignored and in pain until I was 'sufficiently' dilated to go to the delivery suite to get an epidural was so fcuking traumatic for my husband and I.

I actually had to beg crying for someone to come in and examine me on the labour ward as the midwives kept walking past my bed and I was in agony. I felt like an animal.

Our son was born an hour after my husband was allowed in.. One hour is all I had with my husband before our son was born and I felt totally traumatised.

Its a fcuking joke that this is still happening. A friend of mine had to go through a scan with bad news and miscarriage alone. This country still had a long way to go when it comes to maternity care.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686047#Comment_117686047

Most women want "these people" with them while they are going through labour and birth. No amount of staff can make up for having to do it alone if that isn't what they want.

crooked cockney villain

https://twitter.com/RuthCoppingerSP/status/1421155457410940933

Expectant FATHERS?

Has Ruth yet again yapped on about patriarchal cisgendered norms? What about the lesbian couples? The strong independent women who don't need no man to raise their gender neutral human?

I'm actually staggered that this wagon has started talking like a normal person all of a sudden. Surely must have somebody else adminning the account.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686047#Comment_117686047

Tell me, who is making next of kin decisions?

They're not allowed in the hospital, do you think that (if something is going wrong and mother is incapacitated) having the next of kin of both patients out of contact is a rational decision?

alibab

To me this simply doesn’t make sense . Visiting in residential care homes with the most vulnerable in society is fully open more or less with checklists and temperature checks yet here we are not leaving vaccinated fathers into stay with there pregnant partners . I can’t understand it and it actually feels like a element of control . I would actually say all acute hospitals not just maternity services should be making there way back to the normality of visiting if it can be done on nursing homes why not in hospitals. Horror stories of people suffering with dementia being admitted and not being looked after nutritionally as previously families would have come into assist now not allowed . All they do is shrug there shoulders and say not enough staff these are the basics to human life . And as for communication don’t even start . No one answering phones or giving any information to families . I think it’s now being used as a tool to keep people out so they don’t have to engage etc . Or else they have actually lost the power to do so .

Oide2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675003#Comment_117675003

I never usually post but I can't not on this issue.

Myself and my husband had a similar awful experience to this couple in February. I woke up bleeding heavily and my husband brought me to the Coombe on a Friday afternoon and was turned away at the door. I was in such a bad way I couldn't really advocate for myself, they ignored me when I said who my consultant usually was (I was so early I hadn't seen him yet for this pregnancy). I was told the bleeding was “normal” and sent me home to come back the following Monday to confirm the loss. I was too weak and upset to argue. I bled even worse all weekend and started blacking out. We went back in and I ended up needing emergency surgery and 3 blood transfusions. My haemoglobin had dropped so low I almost died. I had to stay in for 3 days without my husband. It was horrific. The worst part of this was not having him there to, firstly, console me during a traumatic time but also to be my voice and stand up for me. I should never have been sent home but I felt unheard and unsupported and I could have died.

Unfortunately I am possibly currently experiencing another loss and I am terrified of this all happening again and my husband being sent back to his car again. How awful it must have been for me to call him in floods of tears and he had to sit there feeling so helpless instead of holding me.

As I said, I rarely post but I can't stay silent on this any more. Leaving women to labor, give birth, cope in the days after birth, traumatic and emergency deliveries etc. and also hearing bad news and miscarrying alone like I did is inhumane.

Tens of thousands are being allowed at the All-Ireland finals and other events but women can't have their birth partners by their sides?!? Indoor dining is allowed for vaccinated people for hours yet vaccinated partners can't even visit or stay for more than an hour or so after birth or traumatic losses. It's just so unfair.

suicide_circus

I think the hospitals probably quite like women not having an advocate, someone to speak for them ie: someone being awkward, making demands, asking questions.

Mrs OBumble

Being an advocate for patients is part of the job of being a nurse / midwife.

If you think that the midwives who cared for you did not adequately advocate for you, then you need to start making official complaints about that.

Having your sex or life partner there might make you feel better, but unless they are medically trained they don't know what issues are important and what aren't.

Lumen

Unfortunately to get adequate care from our health service you need slightly sharp elbows. I personally know (knew?) three people who have died due to not pushing the system hard enough, or assuming that their cases were being administered correctly when they were not.

The point is that women who are alone and in pain can't do that, so they're at the mercy of a dysfunctional system.

angela1711

Omg this is an absolute disgrace. I knew this was the case a few months ago before we had this many people vaccinated but I thought that it has ended ages ago. Absolutely bizarre taking into account that my husband regularly drives our elderly neighbor to his hospital appointments and often goes into the room with him as the man has no family and my husband likes to comfort him. He never really had any issue to accompany this men to his appointments and to think that a father is not allowed to be there at his partner side during one of the most important events of human life is simply sicking.

Icyseanfitz

what an utter and complete disgrace, as others have said we can have thousands at a football game and pints inside...grand sure, but to have your husband/partner next to you as you give birth to "both" of your child, thats a no go for sure.

As for the person saying, if your care wasnt good enough make a complaint, yeah thats really the paramount thing in a persons head after losing a child, traumatic experience or dying ffs.

Joke of a country at this stage

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675220#Comment_117675220

It is funny how the Minister for Health and the Department of Health can impose the restrictions on the hospitals as they did at the start of the pandemic but removing the restrictions is left up the management at the hospitals. It is ridiculous that minister cannot order the hospitals to lift the restrictions in line with government guidance.

Floppybits

Newstalk covering this now on The Hard Shoulder. Jesus the stories from the 2 ladies on at the start are horrific.

MrMusician18

It's quite clear that some maternity hospitals are quite happy to have partners there as little as possible as they, quite frankly, get in the way.

Lillyfae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701122#Comment_117701122

Just to clarify, I liked this post because I’m sure it’s inconvenient for some maternity hospital staff that women have an extra advocate present. Not because I think vaccinated partners are “in the way”

Donald Trump

I wonder many of the people looking for special treatment would be fine with the situation where they had their baby and were on a ward where all the other new mothers had their family members popping in and out all the time

And it's not only just the "direct" contact. Loads more people around the hospital mean the staff are coming into contact with many more people during the day before attending to the new mother and her baby

If it was me, I'd want to be in a facility that had as few non-essential, non-staff, people traipsing around as possible.

noplacehere

I cannot imagine not having my partner with me for the births and my miscarriage but most importantly on the ward afterwards. There is NO help available. I was sitting in blood bawling crying trying to feed/change the baby overnight without support. All I wanted to do was be at home where at least my mum and family could be with me on those long LONG first nights. I was on a 48hr hold for both. The only light was the 8am mark when he would be able to come up and let me breathe for a few minutes. It would have broken me not having that. God help these women.

For those going through the Coombe I highly recommend the birth reflection service they offer (or at least did). She helped me cope with my first labour and had notes on my file. They were like a magic word on the labour ward ‘Anne in the birth reflection service said…’

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701122#Comment_117701122

Yeah, its easier to pressurise women in labour into various treatments or procedures they don't want or need when there is no one there to advocate for them. Easier to ignore their requests for help too and get on with other work to make their jobs easier.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701830#Comment_117701830

Given that many of the health professionals who work in maternity care (nurses, midwives and a substantial percentage of physicians, including consultants) are female, why would they put pressure on female patients?

Musefan

Currently pregnant myself. Have gone private (just lucky enough to afford same) so that my partner can attend all scans. It’s money we will find because he will never have another chance to experience this for this pregnancy again.

What really baffles me is that I am a frontline worker in another health sector and I regularly see both parents for appointments in a far less controlled environment than a hospital. My partner works from home and therefore has very little opportunity to get Covid, but I have a risk of doing so daily!

I am not surprised though. I have a research background in maternity care and it’s striking how reluctant hospitals can be to allow you ask maternity patients about their thoughts and experiences, as it’s too “intrusive”. But, it’s not intrusive to have intimate procedures done while on your own at one of the most vulnerable periods in terms of the lifetime experience of mental health difficulties, without social support. I’ve seen dozens of pregnant people left waiting in busy antenatal clinics for hours, trying to cope with heat, uncomfortable seats, limited bathrooms, not able to go get food because you have to stay where you are.

MrMusician18

Another thing which you don't hear mentioned in this is that infants under 1 year are at risk of a bad dose of covid. And of course they aren't vaccinated.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701896#Comment_117701896

Its a worldwide problem. Why would ireland be any different?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26433506/

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.16.20212480v2.full

Forcing women to give birth alone will lead to poorer outcomes

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117702312#Comment_117702312

In that link, there is reference to mistreatment of pregnant women in Africa. Western Europe is more progressive.

Lillyfae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701896#Comment_117701896

Quite simply because it makes their job easier.

Xcellor

When my wife had an emergency c- section with our first after a really traumatic labour she was wrecked and literally could not look after herself or a newborn. If I wasn't there both my child and my wife would have suffered. Apart from emotional support the practical support is massive. New mothers are just left, barely able to walk but somehow expected to nurse a baby , change nappies and lift a new born...

Expecting our second early next year. I can only hope this nonsense is resolved by then.

For those who have suffered and will suffer due to this you have my deepest sympathy. It's truly appalling.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701830#Comment_117701830

If HCW's were so lazy as to force the easy option on women you'd expect the mortality rate for mother's to be above zero (as it was in 2019)?

Lillyfae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117702490#Comment_117702490

Mortality rate should be the only measurement in maternity care?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117702524#Comment_117702524

One would think that if it's that **** that it would be reflected in elevated mortality rates relative to other western countries.

King Power Fox

Minister should be able to persuade the individual hospitals to change their policies. Surprised Minister Donnelly had not taken the populist stance and asked them to change yet.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117702568#Comment_117702568

The hospitals are quite independent and would likely require a change in the law to give him the power to amend internal operational policy. The best he can do is ask nicely.