Interesting articles

vswr

For some reason entry requirements tests and medicals have always been to really high standards. That's why you have so many Irish in the British Army who have failed at some point in the PDF process. It's been a similar story for decades.

Larbre34

There should be absolutely no lowering of standards in a race to the bottom.

Speed up the process, speed up the testing and medicals etc, and then pay people properly and give them limitless opportunities.

For a job that requires emotional maturity, good judgement, mental toughness, good communication, excellent physical health, excellent eyesight and hearing, and proficiency in a number of physically demanding skills; 1 in 20 does not sound to me like a particularly high failure rate.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122177224#Comment_122177224

1 in 20 is not the failure rate, it's the pass rate. 19 in 20 is the failure rate.

When you consider that only a subset of the general population is interested in the roles, it seems very high to me and absolutely should be studied.

If for example fitness is a major hurdle, more effort could be put into offering introductory training programmes. Similarly if specific medical issues are ruling out a high percentage, that could be considered. Hypothetical of course but it's a personnel crisis so they should know what's causing the issues.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122176590#Comment_122176590

There has to be some limit on how many can be accepted, so candidates who meet the standards don't get in because other candidates did better at aptitude test or interview or whatever.

roadmaster

The Navy dumped the test and numbers went up straight away. The other two branches should do the same otherwise its a fantasy to think they will get numbers up to level

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122177224#Comment_122177224

The point I was getting at is they are un-necessarily high. People can fail Irish tests, but pass UK and French Foreign legion ones no problem,which are forces with far more opportunity and better pay opportunities, it not a case of let anyone in as sandbags.

Know of two who went to other national forces due to being rejected from the Irish process.

Supposedly easier medical and tests to get into the likes of the Fire Brigade and Gardai, which in Ireland, you could argue you could be in more harms way, than in the defence forces.

roadmaster

@Larbre34 was that you on newstalk??

https://www.newstalk.com/news/national-service-in-ireland-could-be-a-real-benefit-for-young-1729053

the_syco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175174#Comment_122175174

I'd wonder how many of those 8,000 applicants are Irish/EEA/refugees with no criminal record?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191196#Comment_122191196

No.

But it is interesting that a conversation has started that some said was impossible just a few months ago.

Yes, it is being prompted by political circumstances in other Countries (and in the case of the Tories it is absolute desperation to appeal to their old base), but it goes to show that the reality in Europe has shifted.

As I keep saying, when all other possibilities to staff an enlarged military, Europe-wide, have been exhausted, whatever remains, will be the solution.

Its far less likely in Ireland, but no longer impossible.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193590#Comment_122193590

go have a look at the article on the Thinpinstripe on the resources needed for the Tory “plan”, even if you reduced it to only 10% (3k), you would still need a huge increase in resources to the DF, for a policy that is going to be massively unpopular, and extremely limited value. Such resources actually invested in the DF would make vastly more sense.

Also given the general reaction to this Tory insanity, take a guess as to which Irish party would volunteer to commit political suicide.

kenny80

https://www.politico.eu/article/ireland-defense-freeloader-ukraine-work-royal-air-force/

This looks very bad

jonnybigwallet

All very true. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Hotblack Desiato

I'm seeing a bit of a pattern here though

https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=Eoin+Drea+site%3Airishtimes.com&kp=1

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197183#Comment_122197183

it’s not like it is a surprise to literally anyone with even a passing awareness of European defence matters.

kenny80

No its not indeed, nice to see it been shoved in there faces tho

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198866#Comment_122198866

It could be plastered on every house in Ireland, it won't make a bit of difference.

vswr

iReLaNd Is NeUtRaL

the_syco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197183#Comment_122197183

The only politicians that care are the ones which will have a public tantrum should anyone attempt at giving the Defence Forces 2% of the GDP.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199448#Comment_122199448

2% of Irish GDP would be over €11 Billion.

For comparable countries; Denmark spends 8 billion, Portugal 4 Billion, and Austria 4 billion or so also.

Thats the sort of ballpark we need to be in, and even at that, it will take years to build up the capacity to spend that sort of budget effectively. I've said it many times before, Ireland's DF issues are not financial, they are structural and managerial.

But 11 Billion in 2024 terms? Not a snowballs.

Grassy Knoll

issue is at this point the absorption capability does not exist with the erosion in man power over the past decade or so. Defence is hi tech now, we need to catch up, but the skills and boots are not there. Maybe the €11 bn means we could get in contractors instead for the whole job ….

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199918#Comment_122199918

Technical point of course that neither Portugal or Austria are spending the 2% either, with Portugal circa 1.4%, and Austria just 1%, if they were hitting the 2% both would be at or about the danish level. And given NATO is now pushing for 2.5, both Denmark and Portugal would be moving closer to that 11 billion figure if they were to attempt to meet it.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200200#Comment_122200200

Whats the metric ireland use, ? Adjusted gnp ? Anyway we: re no where near 2 % of that either ,

tippilot

It would take years to be able to spend 4 billion?

Such is the equipment deficit, you could spend €4 billion in the morning and not make a big impact on current capability gaps.

The issue we have now is spend, or lack of it. Behind the scenes structural changes are great for box ticking and producing glossy documents that shout about your "achievements". The fact is there are no active equipment programs out to tender. They are advancing nothing in terms of glaring capability gaps. Without a minister, the Dept are operating in an oversight vacuum. Sec Gens who need notes to know the size of the helicopter fleet. Looking for pats on the back for handing back unspent budget.

Heads should be rolling at this point.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200473#Comment_122200473

I believe the Metric they use is what is the bare min we have to do divided by 5

jonnybigwallet

I agree. I could spend 4 billion by lunchtime today. Say 1 to 1.5 billion on 18 decent jet aircraft plus training spares and ammo. Another 1 billion on 2 fairly basic corvettes. And what do you reckon it would cost for a half a dozen self propelled 155mm artillery pieces? There's most of the money gone!

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201056#Comment_122201056

So in the DF, today, where would you....

a) get the people to form permanent project teams for such grand acquisitions?

b) get the naval architects, aeronautical engineers and staff officers to work on the ground with the builders, all of which would be overseas

c) get the spare officers, NCOs and technicians to go away to train on the acquistions, to bring back the knowledge to begin conversion for the personnel at home?

d) get the personnel at home to undertake that training and man the assets?

You're probably talking 2,000 people just to on-board the capital you have mentioned above.

Do you see know what people mean about capacity?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201553#Comment_122201553

I think there is absolute absence of urgency in alls aspects of irish life at the moment what ever has happened. In the 50s we built the cabras if this world. In the 70s we built the then RTCs and in the late 90s and 00s we built the motorway network.

Today we as nation seam to be crippled with inaction

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198866#Comment_122198866

Completely agree.

If oftens takes "official" Ireland being embarrassed into social change for anything major to happen, this is no different.

Alkers

Very interesting, I haven't read the codf document in some time but do any of the analysis or recommendations address the dept or are they all focused on the df itself?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203911#Comment_122203911

Insert shocked face here…