Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

Bellie1

Speaking of the new remote working legislation, do ye reckon it will provide means for fully remote in some cases in civil/public service?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952119#Comment_121952119

Disclaimer: I've not read the legislation, only newspaper and union articles about it.

My gut feeling is no, it won't allow for fully remote. While "fully remote" (fcvo "fully remote"!) is happening, I'm not aware of anywhere it's official policy. Where it happens, it's unofficial, nod and a wink, don't ask don't tell, and the official policy will still say a minimum of X days must be spent in the office. I don't see that changing because of the fear some in senior management would have of it setting a precedent and becoming the norm. They will want people in the office for various reasons, at least some of the time, for training/mentoring, "morale", "team building", all-hands meetings, and other valid/invalid meetings. But as I say, that's just my feeling.

tgdaly

It amazes me the negative attitude that some some senior management (I emphasise some because obviously not all) have towards working from home.

I've often heard mutterings in my own department from people about "oh sure we used to be in every day" type of thing, and constantly reminded about you have to do your 2 days. Thankfully because desk space is so tight I don't think we actually could go back to 3 days in the office.

I always imagined that at some point in the past, when computers were starting to be used, people were probably like "oh sure we used to do everything on pen and paper".

People should just move on with the times and realise that wfh is a good thing, makes people happier, and probably healthier too with cutting down on commutes, and financially better off

Ezeoul

Oh god, you made me feel old.

I always imagined that at some point in the past, when computers were starting to be used, people were probably like "oh sure we used to do everything on pen and paper".

I actually remember when my section (at the time) got it's first computer - there were a few who were like "what do we need that for?!"

It was assigned to the Clerical Assistant (Typist) - yes that was a real grade - who used it mainly for "word processing" to replace her typewriter. She hated it.

And then, slowly, we got more computers and then "electronic mail" happened! 😱

doc22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948295#Comment_121948295

I don't think this is the case, you are located at one location, just because the app allows you to book any office doesn't mean you are allowed too. Really you are limited to what your branches locations are and that's subject to senior management approval.House managers who run the various buildings won't be allowing staff with no business case to use the buildings(i.e PO has no existing footprint in building). Your access card only works in selected building/not every office in the country.

BhoyRayzor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947262#Comment_121947262

Revenue varies significantly and not just based on the different roles. It can come down to the PO and/or AP so a person doing the same role in one division or branch could have differing office attendance requirements. Mandatory anchor days and minimum office days per week/month is not the same for everyone.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121951610#Comment_121951610

That's the way to do it. Good management imo. So many employees would hit the roof at that level of output/outcome monitoring though. Makes total sense in a WFH environment but sadly a lot of employees are not ready for that, and just want "yeah I did 6 hours overtime today" to be trusted without having to providing as much as a single metric - otherwise they will guilt-trip you by saying "do you not trust me?"

WFH is built on a "trust but verify" mantra imo. But too many don't like the verify bit. That culture change bit need to happen along with WFH - WFM is based on accountability, but a lot of people run from that like wildfire. This is what limits management's support of WFH imo. Can't have on without the other or else too many will take advantage (and those that don't will start saying "why should I bother when bob next desk doesn't?)

claregal1

All I had to do was email the manager of the building and get my badge activated so yes it is allowed

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121951444#Comment_121951444

A requirement to be in the office one day a week isn't the same thing as a wanker an anchor day where everyone is supposed to be in.

Hotblack Desiato

Curiously, our intranet has had a couple of articles recently about accommodating neurodiversity, how some recent recruits found it intimidating at first but then were grand, etc.

Then they organise 'everyone in this grade' events which everyone is expected to attend, with 'networking opportunities'. I've been there for years but I'd still rather pluck my own balls off, thanks. I don't think that makes me a weirdo, just intolerant of corporate bullshit.

Guess what, I don't need a diagnosis, I'm just not an extrovert!

It seems every five years or so some twat in HR is convinced by some new bunch of private sector chalatans that the key to revolutionising the public sector is having everyone jump up and down while chanting a corporate slogan (I really, really, wish I was making this up, but I'm not, it was horrific beyond belief and all paid for by your and my taxes.)

Next time this crap comes around, I'm just not going to do it. "Sorry, I'm going to do my job instead."

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952942#Comment_121952942

This sort of management on a whim is really not good enough. It's unfair on people to have huge differences in their T&Cs based not on a business case but on whims.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952849#Comment_121952849

Wordperfect or Wordstar, and Lotus 123!

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956149#Comment_121956149

I think it was wordstar first and then "upgraded" to wordperfect, lol.

Nigel Fairservice

I used to have dealings with a county registrar who would write me letters on a type writer. I would type replies on MS word. I'd print and post after. That was mid 2000s. It was daft when I think about it.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121954119#Comment_121954119

I think this is quite progressive by Revenue, and they seem to be ahead of the rest.

During the consultative process between Departments and DPER on the development of the blended working framework, one of the things that was discussed was the possibility / feasability of some Department buildings becoming multi-Department hubs, or at least the larger buildings having some hot desking facilities available for the use of civil servants from other departments.

I realise Revenue can only facilitate their own staff at the moment, but it's a step in the right direction. 👍️

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956149#Comment_121956149

ALL-IN-1 😁

doc22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121957038#Comment_121957038

Sorry but revenue staff just aren't able to pick which locations they work from, Revenue are consolidating locations meaning more staff then seats. House managers aren't allowing staff to work in locations that isn't their designated location and when they do it would have to be with agreement from the relevant PO. I've seen refusals and with anchor days it's pointless have staff in different locations. Staff in Athy and Dundalk can't just walk into local offices if based in Dublin for office days. It not as easy as the picture painted.

Multi department building isn't really that unusual they are all managed by the OPW

doc22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955710#Comment_121955710

It should be the same conditions across the board, it not really business cases leading decisions either, it could be if management has caring responsibilities they may be more WFH-friendly for the entire team. Rules should be enforced on the board level. But then again not everyone has the same responsibilities in terms of workload, neither will be changing anytime soon

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959436#Comment_121959436

Well, I'm just going by what @claregal1 posted above. That they booked a desk in a Dublin office for two days, even though its not their base. I don't work in Revenue myself.

And yes, there are already buildings which are multi-Department, but each Department has its own areas for their exclusive use.

They are not set up as hot-desking hubs, where staff from different departments could be sharing space in the same open plan rooms. This is what was suggested as part of the plans for future hybrid working.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959474#Comment_121959474

Working From Home is not given so someone can take care of their caring responsibilities.

That was made very clear from the beginning of the process of drafting the Blended Working Framework.

Working from home is granted based on whether the type of work is suitable to be done at home, first and foremost.

The person assigned to the role is secondary.

doc22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959557#Comment_121959557

Most non-frontline work can be done from home whether it's a day a month or 3 days a week is really down to management preferences rather than a business case, hence vastly different requirements between divisions/branches essentially doing the same work.

CivilServantCP

Whatever happened to decentralisation? You'd think remote working would bring that to the fore again. Fair enough the Asecs and PO's might need to have access to the minister and the Sec Gen's. But units and sections could function elsewhere and report back in a way that wasn't possible before this new way of working. Dublin will always be full of private sector jobs and has far too many civil service jobs that it doesn't need in my opinion. Think of the good those jobs could do for towns around Ireland that are crying out for employment. Each department should be mandated to decentralise a portion of their sections to a location outside of at least the city centre.

Dodge

there are huge amount of civil servants all over the country already

However the decentralisation policy of the mid to late 2000s was abysmal. Effectively they thought they could move people anywhere, without any regard for personal or family circumstances

I know of one couple where one was being asked to move to Donegal, and the other to Cork. All while having kids in school 5 minutes from their Dublin home.

The crash putting a stop to some of these plans might have been the only good thing to come from it. If anyone got to move “home”, then I’m happy for them but overall, an ill thought out disaster

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012220#Comment_122012220

Where are the "towns around Ireland that are crying out for employment"?

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012658#Comment_122012658

Outside the few main populated cities/large towns ,I'd say basically every other town in Ireland.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013406#Comment_122013406

And no government department will want to move to - at best - a dilapidated 120-y-o three-storey building off Main St., Sometown, Co. Midland. It'd be a greenfield site three miles out of town, with no public transport links, and so everyone drives.

Or - and I know this is crazy, but hear me out! - we continue with and extend blended working, where people can work from anywhere, if the job allows, and get more realistic with the need for "anchor days" and other in-office days. So Mary in Accounts and Joe in HR can work from Kerry and Donegal, for the Department based in D2, if they so wish.

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013538#Comment_122013538

Exactly, blended working/WFH could solve many issues if done correctly.

decentralisation,executed properly and not the shambles they tried back in 2000's has a place as well. I'd have little fate in that being implemented correctly if looked at again.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012220#Comment_122012220

Whatever happened to decentralisation? We spunked €1+bn on a plan to make FF-connected landowners and developers richer, but otherwise achieved the square root of fúck all, apart from promoting some people who weren't competent enough to get promoted but were willing to move.

Most of the civil service was already not based in Dublin before McCreevy's harebrained plan.

Moving civil service offices to small towns is a dreadful idea, basically very few living in a city are going to want to move there (even if, despite spouse's job, kids in school, elderly parents, etc etc. they are free to do so) and the civil / public sector is supposed to exist to provide an efficient service to the public not act as some sort of rural resettlement plan.

Decentralisation in the 70s/80s/90s was to cities and large towns and worked well enough, but wasn't without its issues and extra costs either.

So you're working away in a small midlands town and find there are no promotion outlets, what are you supposed to do, sell up when you get promoted? What's your spouse going to work at?

gmisk

Does anyone know by any chance what the OGPs current blended working policy is?

Turtyturd

it was 3 days in office with the ability to build up flexi in the office or at home. Don’t know if that’s changed though.