Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236318#Comment_119236318

Putin was allowed take Crimea in 2014, without much response from the Obama/Biden administration.

While Hilary was gone a year at that stage, there is no reason to suspect she would have been different.

Putin shortly after Crimea ordered Merkel to sign off on Nordstream 2 and accelerate the winding down of German domestic energy production.

He had the most powerful leader in Europe at his command, America was not his concern.

Podge_irl

Merkel was not at Putin's "command". She just had a distorted and clearly wildly incorrect view of what rational engagement with him would bring.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236661#Comment_119236661

I think Hilary would have made a difference. She is absolutely psychopathic and would be much more likely to escalate things to an extreme degree. She may have actually made Putin think twice.

I think Trump showed in his interactions with Iran that he would be extremely unlikely to push for military action. There would have likely been a lot of threats which would not be carried out.

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236624#Comment_119236624

The reason why they are being told nothing is because the Separatists are actually on 'special joint operation' with the crew from the Moskva.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236673#Comment_119236673

It just happened that her distorted view benefited Russia to an extraordinary degree and cost Germany and Europe.

The head of Nordstream is an Ex KGB Agent from East Germany, a very close and personal friend of Putin since they worked together in the 80s in East Germany.

The man Merkel handed over control of German energy to after the annexation of Crimea.

Maybe, just maybe Merkel was not controlled by Russian intelligence but if she was, would she have been any more loyal a hound to Putin than she was?

The Americans had her bugged in 2009, they knew something was up.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236809#Comment_119236809

It just happened that her distorted view benefited Russia to an extraordinary degree and cost Germany and Europe.

Yes. Not everything is a conspiracy.

She has made her logic and reasoning perfectly clear. She was wrong, but everything about her time in office suggests that she simply thought that engagement with Russia and "thawed" relations would lead t Russia becoming part of the Western order eventually.

It also benefitted Germany just fine until the invasion and the need to cut off supplies from Russia. It was a gamble that completely backfired.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236834#Comment_119236834

And what did she and Germany do to ensure their energy independence in the 8 years since Putin invaded Crimea and the Donbas?

She got even deeper into the Putin mire. She couldn't admit she was wrong in 2014 and they're going to pay for it in spades now in 2022.

It was a mistake to treat Russia like an advanced state. We've seen how political and economic integration makes armed conflict far less likely since the 50s in Europe and it's an extension of that. Some of them are still in denial, some don't fuckin care.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236862#Comment_119236862

Yes. She made a terrible, terrible mistake.

I'm not defending her. I'm saying claiming she was "at Putin's command" is stupid.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236899#Comment_119236899

She was far from the only one anyway. The likes of Blair and Bush were cosying up to Putin in 2000-08 as were many other western leaders - it would be unfair to single her out.

Also, Putin began to change as a person and became much more isolationist and belligerent from around 2014 onward. Most of the bad news stories concerning Russia started from that point on.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237050#Comment_119237050

It is fair to single her out, because neither the UK nor the US are currently funding Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Germany is.

Hobgoblin11

https://twitter.com/sandumaiamd/status/1539714825642713088

Maia Sandu:Had a good phone call with President @ZelenskyyUa ahead of the important EUCO meeting. We have discussed @EU_Commission's recommendation on granting candidate status to Moldova and Ukraine. We are committed to strengthening our cooperation in regards to our EU integration

EltonJohn69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236532#Comment_119236532

Maybe Trumps weakening of NATO might have emboldened putin ?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237240#Comment_119237240

Wasn't he trying to force European countries to step up spending.

That famous photo of Merkel facing him down over it.

She was a loyal hound at every step for Russia.

Her establishing Russian dominance over German energy, her dedication in removing any alternative, even cheaper ones, the speed of the reduction she put in place.

Germany was facing an energy crisis even before the start of the latest phase of the Ukraine invasion.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237095#Comment_119237095

Yes, but she didn't go on a solo run by cosying up to Putin.

The issue of Germany becoming energy dependent on Russia is something of a separate issue. Have a look at what the Brits were doing at the same time - arguably even more controversial, by allowing all that Russian money into the UK and them buying up half of London. Johnson sending arms to Ukraine may well be a smokescreen to cover up the former links to Putin and he putting the son of a KGB officer into the House of Lords.

EltonJohn69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237254#Comment_119237254

I don’t he was thinking about European security when he criticised nations not fulfilling their defence spending commitments.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237292#Comment_119237292

No he was thinking America was paying for it and given that most of Europe were militarily deficient.

Germany, the largest economy in Europe basically has an Army that has often had to train with sticks, it's a global weapons manufacturing superpower.

Obama called it out before as I think Bush did as well.

Russia had different ideas.

roosterman71

No posts in over 10 hours. According to logic from a previous poster - the war must be over

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236583#Comment_119236583

I think the West are doing a 'boiling frog' with Russia... ratcheting up more advanced military support bit by bit. While they were wary of providing such weapons in the heat of the early days of battle... they are slowly (possibly too slowly, but the EU is VERY conservative) but surely providing the good stuff.

I'd not be betting on Russia getting their heretofore unannounced special operations war goals.

Fiery mutant

'I'd not be betting on Russia getting their heretofore unannounced special operationswar goals.'

I hope that's the case, just wish thru would get the finger out and supply quicker.

Dubh Geannain

The Russians have slowly been getting their sh1t together in some regards.

Reinforced Russian air-defense systems in eastern Ukraine are increasingly limiting the effectiveness of Ukrainian drones, undermining a key Ukrainian capability in the war. Foreign Policy’s Jack Detsch quoted several anonymous Ukrainian officials and military personnel that Ukrainian forces have largely halted the use of Turkish Bayraktar drones, which were used to great effect earlier in the war, due to improvements in Russian air-defense capabilities.

Ukrainian officials are reportedly increasingly concerned that US-provided Gray Eagle strike drones will also be shot down by reinforced Russian air defense over the Donbas.[2] Ukrainian forces have reportedly scaled back air operations to 20 to 30 sorties per day and are facing a deficit of available aircraft for active pilots. Russian forces are likely prioritizing deploying air defenses to eastern Ukraine to nullify Ukrainian operations and to protect the artillery systems Russian forces are reliant on to make advances. However, the Ukrainian air force and armed drones remain active elsewhere, inflicting several successful strikes on targets in Kherson Oblast in the last week.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 22 | Institute for the Study of War (understandingwar.org)

Also in more negative news it looks like Ukraine lost their position on the Eastern Bank of the Inhulets River too. Near Davydiv Brid.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236225#Comment_119236225

Is that the same Trump that was impeached for blackmailing Ukraine and openly performed fellatio on Putin at every opportunity he got?

Yep, that Orange prick is one of the many reasons we are where are today.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237823#Comment_119237823

Without the equipment provided by London and Washington the Ukraine would already be in military collapse.

The EU countries have sent a small portion of the overall.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237950#Comment_119237950

Digging in isn't getting their sh1t together, it's practically giving up and relying on the waiting game. Who can hold out the longest?

Historically stoic Russians, but city (those that count) Russians used to more Western lifestyles of late seeing such lifestyles slowly ebb away Vs Historically stoic Ukrainians fighting for their very existence supported by the West (top level - Love Island fans notwithstanding). My Money would sill be on Ukraine.

Dubh Geannain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237957#Comment_119237957

Even a stopped clockwork Orange is right twice a day.

Dubh Geannain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237981#Comment_119237981

I said in some regards. They're not getting routed from positions like had been in the earlier days. The war has had distinct phases and failing less miserably than they had been is still getting their sh1t together in some regards.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237957#Comment_119237957

The selling out of Europe by Merkel was so egregious, so blatant that even he had to call it out, the same with the underfunding of defense in Europe because many felt America paid the bill.

Successive US Presidents called out these issues.

Now Germany is going to reap Merkel's harvest and in winter all of Europe will.

Her hope, and her master's hope is that as winter comes in the severity of the economic crisis will cause sanctions to collapse.

She may well succeed in that.

Richard Hillman

Merkel gets good press in Ireland. There is a distorted view here about her. It's not inconceivable that she was personally compromised by Russia, considering the previous chancellor was clearly personally compromised.

Schroeder has been the Greatest security threat to Europe since the cold war. A man that had access to the state secrets of Germany and high level intel on NATO or the EU, and he defected to Russia.

Schroeder could have Germany as a whole compromised through blackmail.

If Obama or Trump, Blair or Cameron, defected to Russia. They'd be sending their 007 to Russia to take them out. Absolutely no question about it. Germany just diddered and pretended it wasn't a problem. Why?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238065#Comment_119238065

Trump was famous for reading something out that was written for him and then in the next sentence going off script and completely contradicting himself, primarily because he is a fúcking idiot.

Either way he was impeached for withholding aid to Ukraine and blackmailing it's president while heaping praise on the Putin.

He is very much part of the reason we are we are.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238092#Comment_119238092

He wanted European countries to ramp up military spending.

The Green light for Putin was the non reaction from Western Govts after Crimea and Donbass in 2014.

Merkel was ordered to accelerate the winding down of non gas German energy sources after that and she did more than comply.

A man she is on record in 2014 as describing as determined to destroy Europe.

This was in motion years before Trump.