Newstalk: Off The Ball

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939031#Comment_121939031

Far from a Kenny supporter. Agreed with him getting the bullet. Just calling out the hypocrisy from the pundits when they played the exact same way on Saturday.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939053#Comment_121939053

He was out worst ever manager. They didn't play exactly the same way either. Defensively solid, played direct at times. For a first game in change it was decent. Do you remember Kenny's first 8 games in charge?

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939095#Comment_121939095

As you said, Kenny is gone. I'm not here to defend him, his record was terrible. The pundits are full of it though, especially Delaney.

On the upside there was only 3 players over 30 in this squad so whoever does get the job has a young team to work with. Would you give it to O'Shea?

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939130#Comment_121939130

As first games go, it was encouraging. So it deserves some praise. I'd give it to O Shea ahead of Poyet. If they were the 2 options, I'd go with O Shea and the team he has assembled. Would you?

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939156#Comment_121939156

I'm not sure to be honest. O'Shea was involved in the last backroom team so there'd be continuity there but it would be risky with his lack of experience giving it to him on the back of two friendlies. Watched Greece against us and their draw vs France, they were pretty good & well organised and they've a similar quality of player to us. Poyet would proabably be a safer bet but who knows what the FAI will do.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939204#Comment_121939204

O Shea wants the Ireland job more than anything though. Himself, Kerr, McCarthy, Whelan will put everything into it. It might not be enough but they will put a huge amount of hours into picking the squad and preparing them. I'm just not sure that Poyet will put anything like that into it. His record says he mightn't.

Of course, there's the possibility that Poyet takes over and the rest of the team remain!

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939242#Comment_121939242

Poyet said he wanted it too to be fair after they played us here, before any links were made in the media. If they beat Georgia in the playoff and he gets them to a major tournament at the first attempt it'll be a pretty good achievement. Would be seen as a bit of a coup for the FAI too if he walks away to take the Ireland job if Greece qualify.

I know O'Shea would love to get it but if things go wrong it'll just be seen as another Staunton/Bobby Robson job, remember he started out with a great win too in his first game, against Sweden I think it was.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939314#Comment_121939314

Oh yeah, no guarantee with O Shea but there's no guarantee with anyone. Poyet has done really well with Greece and humiliated our previous manager twice but before that he's had a very poor record and has fallen out with club owners everywhere. You could say it's a coup for the FAI but you could also say that Poyet must be bad if even after he qualifies a team for a major tournament, they don't want to offer him a contract.

Anthony Barry would be my choice from who's left but don't think it's him.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939095#Comment_121939095

Staunton lost 5-2 to Cyprus with a vastly superior squad. Kenny was bad. Staunton was worse.

Ralph_GM

You can't base who should get the job on two friendly games.

O'Shea was part of Kenny's embarrassment so I don't know how it would dramatically improve.

One thing I'd say though is that O'Shea wipes the floors with Kenny in terms of media. No pausing or ehms or incoherent rabbling.

I am wondering if this is the route they are going to choose though and have been for the last while once Lee was out of the running. The structure doesn't seem to be just a 2 game thing. Could they give it to O'Shea with Kerr and Whelan as assistant managers?

Neil Lennon did say from the interview the man they wanted had international experience, which might point to Brian Kerr. May they even give the managers job to Kerr himself with O'Shea as assistant?

In terms of contracts ending in April, maybe Kerr has a contract with Virgin until the end of the euros qualifying campaign? Or does Whelan have a contract somewhere?

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940115#Comment_121940115

Won’t happen. Kerr a contract he had to honour with Virgin 😂. The FAI threw Kerr’s name to Oshea as an afterthought.

There’ll be a a new management team installed in April, the level of absolute spoofery spoken on OTB yesterday was embarrassing.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940096#Comment_121940096

Staunton drew with Germany and a very good Czech Republic team. Beat Wales and Slovakia and had some good friendly victories. They were both awful but Kenny was allowed to fail 6 times before he was finally ousted so for me, that puts him as the WOAT.

Ralph_GM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940237#Comment_121940237

Yeah Kenny is definitely the worst ever.

Losing to Cyprus was really embarrassing as was needing a last minute winner to beat San Marino. It was a new experience for us after having such a good team and record in previous times.

Losing to Luxembourg was really bad. Drawing at half time to Gibraltar at home was also embarrassing. Home draw v Azerbaijan.

Only win of note was v Scotland. I can't even say there was even a draw to be proud of during his tenure.

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940311#Comment_121940311

Portugal at home in 2021 for the pleasing draw result.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940237#Comment_121940237

Staunton had prime Robbie Keane, Duff, Given, Dunne, OShea, Carr, Finnan, Doyle and lost 5-2 to Cyprus.

Looking at results so bluntly is a silly comparison. Staunton wasted a golden generation for 2 years. Kenny had much worse resources and achieved similar outcomes.

Rossie4ever

This could just happened to me but was anyone watching the breakfast show on YouTube this morning and hasn't subscribed to it? It only has parts of the show up and not the full show. Just wondering was it like this for anyone else?

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940429#Comment_121940429

Wrong. Kenny had worse resources alright but the outcomes weren't the same. Staunton failed to qualify for World Cup 2008, finishing 3rd behind Czech Republic and Germany. Then got sacked.

Kenny failed to beat a weakened Slovakia to get to the play off finals for Euro 2020. He came 3rd, just ahead of an awful Bulgaria in his first Nations League group. Got effectively eliminated after 2 games for qualification for World Cup 2022. Came 3rd, just ahead of an awful Armenia for his second Nations League group. Got effectively eliminated from Euro 2024 qualification after 2 games in the group. His awful results led us to not even qualify for a play off for Euro 2024. That's 6 major failures, he then was let run out his contract.

The above clearly places Kenny as the WOAT.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940594#Comment_121940594

The above completely ignores the worse resources.

Stan didn’t get a playoff either. Barely beat San Marino but you just glaze over that with no consideration for the strength of player he had. They were both shite managers.

WOAT is also bizarre, can’t say I know much about Ireland in the 1940s myself.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938949#Comment_121938949

I think it would be amusing if O'Shea got the job basically because they could not find a cheap alternative candidate. As for the "media" they do not really know what they are talking about let's be honest. They just throw names at a wall. The next Irish manager whoever he is will not get the "love in" that Kenny received. Lisa Fallon would constantly write articles about how her mate Stephen Kenny was winning over "hearts and minds etc". OTB really brought into this mantra, and ended up looking very foolish indeed.

I would disagree with your assessment that O'Shea did not do anything different than Kenny. In the first game he brought more structure defensively and more energy pressing than Stephen Kenny did in his entire tenure. It was refreshing to see an Irish team press the opposition that is a basic that was lost under Kenny. A directness brought in as well but not just direct for the sake of it.

My major gripe with Kenny's tenure was that he made Ireland lose the basics, the energy, closing down that Irish teams have to play with to be successful. Kenny was too interested in the philosophy, keeping the ball. But the players were not good enough to execute it. So it was just side to side passive stuff, easy to play against.

I have to be honest, I have no real respect for the OTB lads opinions on sport, they are bluffers with arts and English degrees. It shows.

Acosta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940437#Comment_121940437

Yeah. It just stopped after 30 minutes of the show.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941007#Comment_121941007

No it didn't. The opposite in fact.

I've stated both were awful but for the 6 major failures Kenny had in 3 years, that makes him to WOAT. We didn't have a manager in the 40's I don't think. We had FAI committees selecting the team.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941484#Comment_121941484

You clearly have an agenda against Kenny.

Staying in the Nations League B is a "major failure"? To lose on penalties to Slovakia in his first game is a major failure? But fair enough if thats your opinion, I disagree. Take Mick Meagan, 1 point in two campaigns, Kenny achieved more than that in all qualifying campaigns. Its an utterly nonsense comparison tho.

For me, Stan is the worst manager in my life time. Closely followed by Kenny.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941588#Comment_121941588

Wrong. I have an agenda against the awful performances, results and failures for the past 3 years. It doesn't matter who was in charge, it was unacceptable.

Coming near the bottom of every nations league group is a major failure, not beating a weakened Slovakia, in what wasn't his first game in charge was a major failure.

Mick Meagan came in after the committee's were in charge but they were still interfering. Still not as many failures as Kenny. So I pick Kenny as WOAT.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941705#Comment_121941705

But somehow losing 5-2 to Cyprus and relying on a last minute winner against San Marino is fine.

You're entitled to your opinion. This is nothing to do with OTB, I'll leave it there.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941828#Comment_121941828

Where did I say it was fine? Toodles. 👋

keeponhurling

Adrian put it well this morning in the breakfast show.

FAI say they have a new man coming in at beginning of April.

if this is true, the new man comes in and these friendlies are irrelevant.

if this is not true, O’Shea gets the job because there is literally nobody else. So these friendlies are irrelevant.

shockframe

Doubt O'Shea would be considered at all for it.

Surely the case of Staunton would be enough to steer clear.

They are even left backs who won the Top Flight English League!

Not that there's many Klopp's out there but get in someone with a bit of experience in management at least.

It's not a very exciting role though to be fair.

Musicrules

O Shea passed the test on Saturday but failed last night. He had no ideas on how to change things. I didn't see Brian Kerr with him so it was Whelan and McCarthy giving advice. After last night I think we have to look past O Shea. Poyet doesn't seem like the greatest option either though.

Ol' Donie

There's the Maradona song again. Do they use it much? That dates way back to when Second Captains were on OTB.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946317#Comment_121946317

It will be interesting to hear/see how OTB spin a new manager. Will there be constant comparisons to Stephen Kenny? (Who they heavily backed - to the point of farce)

Will they now be mentioning the poor player pool if Ireland lose/perform poorly, or the players Stephen Kenny "blooded" if Ireland win/do well? As a justification of their previous narrative?

I wonder will OTB will drop the dream of playing football the "right way" / philosophical notions? And instead just be pleased if the next manager gets a bit of structure, urgency and energy back to Irish football? Basically what Irish players are naturally good at, the workrate and effort.