contractors revising post completion

Dav010

Who gets a builder to construct something from scratch without providing drawings or images of what exactly you want? Without the client providing drawings, the verbal description is open to interpretation. I’ve had a lot of construction jobs done over the past 25 years, never once has it been up to the builder to provide me with drawings of what I want, always the other way around.

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

Who gets a builder to construct something from scratch without providing drawings or images of what exactly you want? Without the client providing drawings, the verbal description is open to interpretation. I’ve had a lot of construction jobs done over the past 25 years, never once has it been up to the builder to provide me with drawings of what I want, always the other way around.

this is a landscaping contractor , not a builder , the landscaper studied the grounds of our property for half an hour and then explained to us what he would do , you might say he is a garden designer as well , unfortunately we hit the ditch when it came to the pergola as he envisaged it being set apart from the patio , that was the only thing we didnt grasp day one , everything else was perfectly clear

I dont see how its such a big deal that the landscaper provided us with a plan to improve our garden rather than us directing him every step of the way

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

this is a landscaping contractor , not a builder , the landscaper studied the grounds of our property for half an hour and then explained to us what he would do , you might say he is a garden designer as well , unfortunately we hit the ditch when it came to the pergola as he envisaged it being set apart from the patio , that was the only thing we didnt grasp day one , everything else was perfectly clear

I dont see how its such a big deal that the landscaper provided us with a plan to improve our garden rather than us directing him every step of the way

You wanted him to build the Pagoda to meet your requirements, in a particular location, onus therefore is on you to illustrate exactly what you want. Otherwise, a verbal description is open to interpretation.

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

You wanted him to build the Pagoda to meet your requirements, in a particular location, onus therefore is on you to illustrate exactly what you want. Otherwise, a verbal description is open to interpretation.

So all the onus is on us to be crystal clear?

SouthWesterly

Mad_maxx wrote: »

So all the onus is on us to be crystal clear?

Yes. If you're not clear in what you want. How can the contractor be clear in what you want.

tscul32

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I dont know if the original pergola he had in mind was much smaller as he didnt tell us the dimensions and didnt show us a sketch , we assumed it was exactly the same size as the patio or slightly less of a footprint as parking the pergola directly over the patio is the conventional way , in the end ( now ) the pergola is directly over the patio bar a metre in front of patio

Why not ask what the original quote covered (exactly) and what the extra charge is for.
I wonder if, as mentioned, he was planning on an open pergola, the decorative roofless type which wouldn't usually be over a patio. That's more of a landscape item, the current trend of pergolas are more of a construction item. The extra costs would then probably be for the roof panels.

Mad_maxx

tscul32 wrote: »

Why not ask what the original quote covered (exactly) and what the extra charge is for.
I wonder if, as mentioned, he was planning on an open pergola, the decorative roofless type which wouldn't usually be over a patio. That's more of a landscape item, the current trend of pergolas are more of a construction item. The extra costs would then probably be for the roof panels.

Anyway, probably no more to be said, il raise it with him and hopefully he provides details of increased cost

On a 9 k job, you would think certain over runs would just be tolerated rather than casually lobbing into customers lap , as I said earlier, culture of acceptance of this kind of thing here

Be nice if someone could just learn from experience instead of charging customer for their poor communication errors, one side does this kind of thing for a living afterall

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Be nice if someone could just learn from experience instead of charging customer for their poor communication errors, one side does this kind of thing for a living afterall

Why are you blaming the contractor for “poor communication”?

For Gods sake, 30 seconds of googling would have given you images of the design you wanted, print it off and hand it to him. Have you learned from this experience?

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

Why are you blaming the contractor for “poor communication”?

For Gods sake, 30 seconds of googling would have given you images of the design you wanted, print it off and hand it to him. Have you learned from this experience?

And what may I ask was to stop the contractor firing up the printer and presenting some options to customer?

Why hold contractor to lower standard?

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

And what may I ask was to stop the contractor firing up the printer and presenting some options to customer?

Why hold contractor to lower standard?

Did you ask him to?

Kerry25x

He should have communicated the higher cost to you when you informed him that you wanted something different to what he had in mind.

To come along after the job is done with a new higher price seems like bull**** to me. I would be annoyed too.

Mad_maxx

Kerry25x wrote: »

He should have communicated the higher cost to you when you informed him that you wanted something different to what he had in mind.

To come along after the job is done with a new higher price seems like bull**** to me. I would be annoyed too.

indeed

its also like i said earlier , why pluck 550 quid out of the air and lob it on , going by the views of some on this thread , if the contractor decided to add on 1500 extra , it would be perfectly fine as the plan had to change post quote due to confusion between both parties ?

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

indeed

its also like i said earlier , why pluck 550 quid out of the air and lob it on , going by the views of some on this thread , if the contractor decided to add on 1500 extra , it would be perfectly fine as the plan had to change post quote due to confusion between both parties ?

There seems to be two issues here, the amount extra being charged, and the confusion over what was to be built in the first place. It is obvious this is a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc. By you not providing drawings of what YOU wanted, extra work and materials were necessary due to the confusion.

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

There seems to be two issues here, the amount extra being charged, and the confusion over what was to be built in the first place. It is obvious this is a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc. By you not providing drawings of what YOU wanted, extra work and materials were necessary due to the confusion.

you place all blame on us and none on the contractor , too convenient im afraid

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

you place all blame on us and none on the contractor , too convenient im afraid

I’d say it’s decidedly inconvenient for both of you, but any confusion could and should have been avoided by you giving the contractor a drawing/photo of what you wanted. Jeez, we live in a digital age where rather than describing what you wanted, you could have googled “Pagoda” and showed him.

This is typical blame culture where the customer thinks they are right, but in reality, the onus was completely on you to provide a spec of what you wanted.

landcrzr

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Then he should surely have communicated to us what size the pergola he had in mind was?

We assumed the pergola was the same size as the patio ,it was peculiar to suggest the pergola not be sited on the patio

A basic sketch that my five year old could draw would have avoided confusion

You were best placed to draw up this basic sketch in the first place to communicate clearly what you wanted, but you didn't unfortunately.
What exactly was agreed, dimensions wise, was it written down, did you get a quote in writing and what exactly did it say?

Mad_maxx

landcrzr wrote: »

You were best placed to draw up this basic sketch in the first place to communicate clearly what you wanted, but you didn't unfortunately.
What exactly was agreed, dimensions wise, was it written down, did you get a quote in writing and what exactly did it say?

each item had a price , beit laying the lawn , planting hedge or both shrub beds

the patio had dimensions listed along with price

the pergola only had a price mentioned , no dimensions were listed in the quote

even we accept we were better to have provided a sketch , how does that entirely let him off the hook and give him licence to lob on extra cost ?

to me it appears he just exploiting the confusion that surrounding this particular aspect of the entire project

the_pen_turner

have yo found out what the increase is for yet

Mad_maxx

the_pen_turner wrote: »

have yo found out what the increase is for yet

not yet , he was supposed to call over yesterday

landcrzr

Mad_maxx wrote: »

each item had a price , beit laying the lawn , planting hedge or both shrub beds

the patio had dimensions listed along with price

the pergola only had a price mentioned , no dimensions were listed in the quote

even we accept we were better to have provided a sketch , how does that entirely let him off the hook and give him licence to lob on extra cost ?

to me it appears he just exploiting the confusion that surrounding this particular aspect of the entire project

Bear in mind how you engaged this guy in the first place.
You asked him for a quote based on your description of what you wanted, at this point it is clear that the dimensions of this pergola were not discussed. The contractor gave you a competitive quote, that is, he priced what you described and nothing else. If he were to have included a sum to cover 'just in case scenarios', he may not have been the cheapest and may have lost the job so why would he do that. Equally, if he had included such a sum and was still cheapest, you would be paying extra even if such a 'just in case' event didn't happen.
Regarding the now additional sum, it may not be just for materials. You're also competing with today's rates for trades, not last year's. This guys next job may be much better paying, so staying longer with you means his potential income is reduced.
I think you need to talk to your contractor and do not be confrontational, you're on soft ground.
You obviously have this opinion that this guy is trying to rip you off. He is thinking, you want something more than he priced for, why should he subsidise your pergola.

Mad_maxx

landcrzr wrote: »

Bear in mind how you engaged this guy in the first place.
You asked him for a quote based on your description of what you wanted, at this point it is clear that the dimensions of this pergola were not discussed. The contractor gave you a competitive quote, that is, he priced what you described and nothing else. If he were to have included a sum to cover 'just in case scenarios', he may not have been the cheapest and may have lost the job so why would he do that. Equally, if he had included such a sum and was still cheapest, you would be paying extra even if such a 'just in case' event didn't happen.
Regarding the now additional sum, it may not be just for materials. You're also competing with today's rates for trades, not last year's. This guys next job may be much better paying, so staying longer with you means his potential income is reduced.
I think you need to talk to your contractor and do not be confrontational, you're on soft ground.
You obviously have this opinion that this guy is trying to rip you off. He is thinking, you want something more than he priced for, why should he subsidise your pergola.

how do you know he " gave me a competitive quote " ?

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

how do you know he " gave me a competitive quote " ?

The presumption being, you checked before accepting it. You did check?

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

The presumption being, you checked before accepting it. You did check?

Only got one quote as I know of plenty of jobs this guy did locally, only bone of contention is whether it's reasonable at all times for customer to shoulder an over run ?

He didn't tell me a month ago it could cost nearly twice as much as listed on quote to do pergola

When you get a big job done ,you expect a little tolerance for miscellaneous extras should they arise

landcrzr

Mad_maxx wrote: »

how do you know he " gave me a competitive quote " ?

If you only sought 1 quote, that was your choice, this guy didn't know that unless you told him beforehand.

The next time you go into Tesco, should the person on the till charge you a few extra Euro in case you want to run back into the shop and grab a packet of sweets?

tscul32

I think the bottom line is that once it was acknowledged that there was a difference in expectation and that the correct location, etc. was agreed, that is the point when the customer should be told that it will cost a good bit more. There's no reason not to say it until it's done. An extra 500 isn't pocket change.

And on the confusion over the plans, both parties had the opportunity to do up a design to make sure the plan was set in stone but the two parties are a customer who may have never done anything like this before, and a contractor who does this all the time and has surely come across issues like this before. The customer should have done a sketch or shown a pic of what they want, absolutely, and they won't ever make that mistake again. But will the contractor make sure there's always a sketch in the future? There was no downside for the contractor so they may not alter their work practices for the next customer. Really, both should learn from this episode, not just the customer.

Mad_maxx

landcrzr wrote: »

If you only sought 1 quote, that was your choice, this guy didn't know that unless you told him beforehand.

The next time you go into Tesco, should the person on the till charge you a few extra Euro in case you want to run back into the shop and grab a packet of sweets?

No idea what that means?

landcrzr

Mad_maxx wrote: »

No idea what that means?

You asked how I knew it was a competitive quote.
You accepted it regardless of whether you got any other quotes so it is a competitive quote.

The Tesco analogy is to put perspective on your statement that the contractor should have allowed for 'extras' that you may or may not want. How on earth is any competitive quote supposed to allow for such random 'extras' that may or may not happen.

Let's say you had agreed €500 at the outset for these extras and they didn't happen, would you still be willing to pay the contractor for this item? I suspect not.
However, you're essentially saying that the contractor should be willing to cover the cost.
Bit of a double standard there.

scwazrh

If the additional cost can be proven as incurred due to no fault of his , you should pay the extra fee.

If he is trying to charge extra cause it took him longer then he thought or because of something he missed and shouldn’t of , well that’s his own problem and you should only pay the agreed fee.

Mad_maxx

We had an amicable conclusion of the project yesterday evening, he originally planned to just have 6 x 3 corner posts ,this was changed to 6 x 6 corner posts prior to job commencing, the pergola originally was an open style according to him so this then involved materials to enclose two of the sides

We met in the middle price wise

beggars_bush

I would meet him half way and be happy with that