contractors revising post completion

Mad_maxx

recently got a large landscaping job done which included a four X three metre pergola over a patio which has a footprint slightly larger than said pergola

anyway , the contractor is fairly long into his career and while first rate in terms of application , has yet to grasp the concept of both customer input and providing sketches , as such we only discovered late ( ish ) in the day that he had a completely different idea to us when it came to the pergola , he envisaged the pergola would be sited in one location and the patio in another , we wanted the pergola sited directly over the patio with a slight area of patio extending beyond pergola at front , we communicated this to him at the start but our idea obviously got lost in translation

once we corrected him having discovered that we were not on the same page as the contractor , we got a picture from the PINTEREST site prior to commencement of the job and explained that was what we wanted , nothing too exotic , four corner posts , rafters across the top and trellis on two sides as well as across rafters on the top , we bought the trellis ourselves which costs circa 165 euro

i did not haggle on price when having received the quote last November , anyways , contractor sent me a text a few days ago saying that the job was 550 euro extra because of the changes to the pergola

is this reasonable ? , we did not expect him to have a completely different idea to us and had he provided us with a sketch in the first place , we could have immedietely seen what he had in mind and edited accordingly

its obviously not an enormous sum but seems quire arbitrary , he could just as easily say it cost a grand more as there was no breakdown of extra costs in text

will be seeing this guy next week

landcrzr

Contractors generally don't provide a drawing service, this is something the client presents for pricing. Sounds like this guy gave you a quote based on a discussion only. Somehow your understanding of what was to be done was different to theirs, doesn't make it the contractors fault.

dazed+confused

You can't "internet" everything.

Real life is more complicated than that

Mad_maxx

dazed+confused wrote: »

You can't "internet" everything.

Real life is more complicated than that

Mad_maxx

landcrzr wrote: »

Contractors generally don't provide a drawing service, this is something the client presents for pricing. Sounds like this guy gave you a quote based on a discussion only. Somehow your understanding of what was to be done was different to theirs, doesn't make it the contractors fault.

But does it make it reasonable to revise price of job ?

To me , its difficult to see where 550 euro extra went into the pergola , unless he had the most low frill of pergola plans in mind at the outset

listermint

Not sure you know max but timber prices have gone through the roof since November. Any alterations in construction with timber ads cost

TheW1zard

You got a quote
You got the work done
Then he says it's an extra 550.

Just say your paying the quote. It's not an extra, you wanted a Pergola, you got a Pergola.

Mad_maxx

listermint wrote: »

Not sure you know max but timber prices have gone through the roof since November. Any alterations in construction with timber ads cost

he has not said that is the reason , he has not given any reason yet asked me to wire the money , i phoned him and said id pay him by cheque in person

id be wary of simply bowing to the upsurge in timber prices , seems too arbitrary and renders quotes pretty meaningless ?

Mad_maxx

TheW1zard wrote: »

You got a quote
You got the work done
Then he says it's an extra 550.

Just say your paying the quote. It's not an extra, you wanted a Pergola, you got a Pergola.

the other posters here seem to think the contractor did not realise what we wanted at the start and thus under priced the job ?

listermint

Mad_maxx wrote: »

he has not said that is the reason , he has not given any reason yet asked me to wire the money , i phoned him and said id pay him by cheque in person

id be wary of simply bowing to the upsurge in timber prices , seems to arbitrary and renders quotes pretty meaningless ?

I've no idea your pergola design but the most basic of pergolas right now the timber cost alone is over 500 euro. What would have been 300 in the past. Edits to the design more timber or bracing.

TheW1zard

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the other posters here seem to think the contractor did not realise what we wanted at the start and thus under priced the job ?

The job was communicated to the contractor
Price was agreed

Fair is fair for sure, seems unfair though!

TheW1zard

I had a chap quote me 2k for a patio and 1k for a pergola, 12sqm "plus costs"

I'm currently laying a patio

Mad_maxx

listermint wrote: »

I've no idea your pergola design but the most basic of pergolas right now the timber cost alone is over 500 euro. What would have been 300 in the past. Edits to the design more timber or bracing.

for all i know he bought the timber last december , he priced the job last November

enricoh

What type of timber was it made out of ? Hardwood or softwood?, you got a pergola as per the quote just in a different location.
4m x 3m is a fair span, maybe he thought it was just a small 2mx1m one originally?

Mad_maxx

enricoh wrote: »

What type of timber was it made out of ? Hardwood or softwood?, you got a pergola as per the quote just in a different location.
4m x 3m is a fair span, maybe he thought it was just a small 2mx1m one originally?

Then he should surely have communicated to us what size the pergola he had in mind was?

We assumed the pergola was the same size as the patio ,it was peculiar to suggest the pergola not be sited on the patio

A basic sketch that my five year old could draw would have avoided confusion

Mad_maxx

TheW1zard wrote: »

I had a chap quote me 2k for a patio and 1k for a pergola, 12sqm "plus costs"

I'm currently laying a patio

We were quoted 2200 for a 4.8 by 4.8 patio but that was part of a broader 9 k job

Quote agreed last year

listermint

Mad_maxx wrote: »

for all i know he bought the timber last december , he priced the job last November

There is literally no chance he bought the timber in November for a job in June July.

I think the jist of this whole thing is spec should have been written in full and quote sizes and drawings and price agreed within a contract. Unless you have that then the price is open to change.

Sleeper12

TheW1zard wrote:

The job was communicated to the contractor Price was agreed

The job is different to that explained to the builder (as far as the builder is concerned). Client didn't provide plans or drawings. There are hundreds of different kinds of pergolas.

Sleeper12

Mad_maxx wrote:

for all i know he bought the timber last december , he priced the job last November

Building materials increased late last year. Production worldwide dropped during the pandemic. As an example I started ripping new electric showers for parts because there were no spare parts. If I place an order this Monday f parts I'll be lucky to receive half of them.

A very basic drawing of the garden would have avoided all of this. Communication was so bad that pergola was going in a different part of the garden. Doesn't really matter if you didn't explain properly or he didn't understand what you wanted. Even child like drawings would have avoided this

Sleeper12

Mad_maxx wrote:

A basic sketch that my five year old could draw would have avoided confusion

Why didn't you provide one? Homeowner provides the drawing because they know what they want. Builder then works off the drawing you provided. It's not the builders job to provide drawings.

looksee

Surely if a sketch 'a five year old could have done' would have clarified the job, then you should have got a 5 year old to provide one. Or done one yourself. What you effectively did was wave your hand vaguely and say 'I want a pergola' and he built you one. It was your business to make sure he understood exactly what you wanted?

(I just paid slightly over 2000 for a 5m x 1.5m pergola using 6"x6" and 2" x 9" larch. And I am getting a 7mx6m patio re-laid including everything except paving slabs for about 950). The patio will cost more than the original quote of 750 because of issues that could not have been foreseen and which I fully understand and agree with, most of the extra is materials.

Mad_maxx

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The job is different to that explained to the builder (as far as the builder is concerned). Client didn't provide plans or drawings. There are hundreds of different kinds of pergolas.

if that is the case ( that the onus was on us to provide detailed plans for the kind of pergola we wanted ) , then that is fair enough

my reason for opening this thread was to question if contractors retain too much right to add lib on price ?

im not saying you share this view but some people do simply believe a customer should just jump whenever a contractor says " how high " and defend this view under price hikes in materials etc

Mad_maxx

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Building materials increased late last year. Production worldwide dropped during the pandemic. As an example I started ripping new electric showers for parts because there were no spare parts. If I place an order this Monday f parts I'll be lucky to receive half of them.

A very basic drawing of the garden would have avoided all of this. Communication was so bad that pergola was going in a different part of the garden. Doesn't really matter if you didn't explain properly or he didn't understand what you wanted. Even child like drawings would have avoided this

true which is why i said earlier the contractor should have provided a sketch to us , now its fair to say we should have did the same but you cant leave all responsibility with us when it comes to lack of sketches or at least i hope you cant ?

on the pergola being sited apart from the patio , we had never heard of such a design so it didnt occur to us that that is what he had in mind , its entirely possible the pergola was considerably smaller under his originally envisaged plan so the new pergola plan probably did involve more material

in that sense , i suppose i would be objecting to the price being revised upwards based purely on the notion that an original quote trumps everything else , presumably it does not ?

im not attempting to be beligerent , i just think contractors are given too much freedom to add lib most of the time regardless of how they screw up prior to commencing works , all of the planning competence cannot lie with the customer surely ?

listermint

Mad_maxx wrote: »

true which is why i said earlier the contractor should have provided a sketch to us , now its fair to say we should have did the same but you cant leave all responsibility with us when it comes to lack of sketches or at least i hope you cant ?

on the pergola being sited apart from the patio , we had never heard of such a design so it didnt occur to us that that is what he had in mind , its entirely possible the pergola was considerably smaller under his originally envisaged plan so the new pergola plan probably did involve more material

in that sense , i suppose i would be objecting to the price being revised upwards based purely on the notion that an original quite trumps everything else , presumably it does not ?

im not attempting to be beligerent , i just think contractors are given too much freedom to add lib most of the time regardless of how they screw up prior to commencing works , all of the planning competence cannot lie with the customer surely ?

Hence the need for contracts frankly.

Contact plus drawing everyone's happy customer and contractor.

In absence of these what has happened here happens and no one is happy.

Mad_maxx

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The job is different to that explained to the builder (as far as the builder is concerned). Client didn't provide plans or drawings. There are hundreds of different kinds of pergolas.

what about as far as the customer is concerned

no offense but you are giving full immunity to the contractor for poor communication and none to us

we also got a fifteen thousand euro windows and door replacement job recently , when the joinery firm came out in march to measure and subsequently provide quote , they presented us with a sketch , we could see some detail which we asked to change to our liking , a landscaper is not a joiner of course but it does not seem unreasonable for a landscaper to offer some kind of basic sketch which gives the customer an idea

add to that , how can we know for sure that the original pergola as envisaged by the contractor was that much smaller ? , he might well just be lobbing on extra cost because he thinks he can exploit the earlier brief period of confusion , i would add that no work had commenced , we did not have to tear anything down or start over , all confusion was cleared up before any work commenced

Mad_maxx

looksee wrote: »

Surely if a sketch 'a five year old could have done' would have clarified the job, then you should have got a 5 year old to provide one. Or done one yourself. What you effectively did was wave your hand vaguely and say 'I want a pergola' and he built you one. It was your business to make sure he understood exactly what you wanted?

(I just paid slightly over 2000 for a 5m x 1.5m pergola using 6"x6" and 2" x 9" larch. And I am getting a 7mx6m patio re-laid including everything except paving slabs for about 950). The patio will cost more than the original quote of 750 because of issues that could not have been foreseen and which I fully understand and agree with, most of the extra is materials.

Please understand that this was part of a broader landscaping job so you might expect the pergola to appear cheap here , We live in a one off house 16 km outside galway city , different price situation to a landscaping job in Dublin where gaining access is much trickier for machines etc , we had a field ( we have a small field surrounding our house ) turned into a lawn so the lawn work was not that different to working on an agricultural field in terms of application , very different to working in a confined space in the likes of Drumcondra in Dublin or Knocknacarra in Galway city

point is , costs are not a one side fits all across the country

Did you ask for a sketch?

Mad_maxx

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Why didn't you provide one? Homeowner provides the drawing because they know what they want. Builder then works off the drawing you provided. It's not the builders job to provide drawings.

home owners rarely know what they want when it comes to many things , an interior designer provides you with a sketch idea and you edit accordingly , my fiance is currently employing one and got a sketch early on

ditto if you intend to remodel a house , an architect will provide drawings , this landscaper has " design " in the title of his company

the_pen_turner

Mad_maxx wrote: »

home owners rarely know what they want when it comes to many things , an interior designed provides you with a sketch idea and you edit accordingly , my fiance is currently employing one and got a sketch early on

ditto if you intend to remodel a house , an architect will provide drawings , this landscaper has " design " in the title of his company

An interior designer will give you a design because that's what you asked for and painter and decorator wont because you tell them what you have decided already.

It doesn't sound like you asked the landscaper to design anything. You told him what you wanted.

Somewhere is there the wires got crossed and the landscaper thought you wanted something you didn't
Who's fault that is depends on the conversation.
Seems a miss communication more than anything

The quote is probably not valid anyway. At least I hope he is not give quotes that are valid 8indefinitely .

Either way there should have been a discussion once the plan changed from what was quoted

Sleeper12

Mad_maxx wrote:

what about as far as the customer is concerned

You have the idea in your head. It's up to you to ensure that the tradesmen fully understands the job. He didn't even know what part of the garden he was put the pergolas. You are supposed to provide a basic drawing of the garden and where everything should go


I don't want to sound mean or hard. I understand that you might not understand how engaging a contractor works.
There is no nice way to say it but this is your fault. The contractor is blameless in this.

I say this with respect. I have no ill will towards you. It is what it is though.

Mad_maxx

the_pen_turner wrote: »

An interior designer will give you a design because that's what you asked for and painter and decorator wont because you tell them what you have decided already.

It doesn't sound like you asked the landscaper to design anything. You told him what you wanted.

Somewhere is there the wires got crossed and the landscaper thought you wanted something you didn't
Who's fault that is depends on the conversation.
Seems a miss communication more than anything

The quote is probably not valid anyway. At least I hope he is not give quotes that are valid 8indefinitely .

Either way there should have been a discussion once the plan changed from what was quoted

the landscaper designed absolutely everything about this job , the only thing we objected to was the pergola as he had it in sited in a different location to the patio which we did not want , had he given us a sketch of the pergola and where it would be sited in relation to the patio , we would have objected at the start , he could also have sketched the size of the pergola , we didnt expect him to sketch out the lawn or the shrub beds as we knew exactly how big the lawn would be as he just pointed to the wall surrounding our house and said " pull that down and extend the lawn into the surrounding field as far as the neighbours boundary "

it was unmistakably clear