Beneficiary in Will refusing to give date of birth

GerardKeating

Claw Hammer wrote: »

PPS numbers didn't exist in the 1980s. It is quite likely the person has a PPS and date of birth but the PPS number is validated by reference to the check character at the end. Once the o/p has a date of birth he can reverse engineer a PPSN.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I never said that in the first place.

Technically you did, unless it's a typo

Claw Hammer

GerardKeating wrote: »

Technically you did, unless it's a typo

I didn't say the PPSN could be reverse engineered from a DOB. If the Op has the DOB the next thing he will need is a PPSN. I never said one could be engineered from the other. I was referring to the validation process.

ohnonotgmail

Claw Hammer wrote: »

PPS numbers didn't exist in the 1980s. It is quite likely the person has a PPS and date of birth but the PPS number is validated by reference to the check character at the end. Once the o/p has a date of birth he can reverse engineer a PPSN.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I didn't say the PPSN could be reverse engineered from a DOB. If the Op has the DOB the next thing he will need is a PPSN. I never said one could be engineered from the other. I was referring to the validation process.

that is almost word for word what you said.

athlone573

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Yes, but you are lazy.

However it is an idea
Outsourcing the DOB search to a genealogical search provider should be an allowable expense

Dock it from the awkward persons share if you can

Jerry Attrick

Claw Hammer wrote: »

PPS numbers didn't exist in the 1980s. It is quite likely the person has a PPS and date of birth but the PPS number is validated by reference to the check character at the end.

Hare splitting, and somewhat misleading!

Although the title "PPSN" didn't exist prior to 2000, the relevant number has existed for anyone born in Ireland since 1971. It was called an RSI number until 1999/2000.

And any parent that applied for children's allowance in respect of a child born in the 1980s would have had to send in details of the child's RSI number and date of birth to the Department of Social Welfare. So the DoB would (or should!) be on the Department's records.

Radio5

Ask your solicitor to contact Revenue and explain the position to them. They should be able to advise on what to do.

Claw Hammer

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Hare splitting, and somewhat misleading!

Although the title "PPSN" didn't exist prior to 2000, the relevant number has existed for anyone born in Ireland since 1971. It was called an RSI number until 1999/2000.

And any parent that applied for children's allowance in respect of a child born in the 1980s would have had to send in details of the child's RSI number and date of birth to the Department of Social Welfare. So the DoB would (or should!) be on the Department's records.

There was no RSI number until 1978. The Dept of Social welfare allocated RSI numbers as did the Revenue Commissioners. Parents would not be sending RSI numbers to the DSW because the parents wouldn't have had an RSI number to send.

athlone573

At what age are ppsn allocated nowadays?

ohnonotgmail

athlone573 wrote: »

At what age are ppsn allocated nowadays?

a baby gets a PPSN when their birth is registered.

wench

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Hare splitting, and somewhat misleading!

Although the title "PPSN" didn't exist prior to 2000, the relevant number has existed for anyone born in Ireland since 1971. It was called an RSI number until 1999/2000.

And any parent that applied for children's allowance in respect of a child born in the 1980s would have had to send in details of the child's RSI number and date of birth to the Department of Social Welfare. So the DoB would (or should!) be on the Department's records.

Consider that back in the day, if women weren't considered worthy of their own RSI number, children certainly weren't!
Children were only allocated an RSI number around 15 years old, ready for them to enter the workforce at 16.

Claw Hammer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that is almost word for word what you said.

There would be no point in reverse engineering a PPSN wi9thout the DOB. I never said one could be derived from the other.

ohnonotgmail

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There would be no point in reverse engineering a PPSN wi9thout the DOB. I never said one could be derived from the other.

I quoted the post where you did say that. Others have also quoted your post. this is just a pathetic attempt at gaslighting from you.

Jerry Attrick

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There was no RSI number until 1978. The Dept of Social welfare allocated RSI numbers as did the Revenue Commissioners. Parents would not be sending RSI numbers to the DSW because the parents wouldn't have had an RSI number to send.

What exactly that short history lesson has to do with the situation of someone born in the 1980s is puzzling.

For the record, my kids were born in the 1980s and, within weeks of their births being registered, we received letters from the DSW giving their respective RSI numbers. We needed those numbers to apply for child allowance and later to enrol them in national school.

Claw Hammer

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

What exactly that short history lesson has to do with the situation of someone born in the 1980s is puzzling.

For the record, my kids were born in the 1980s and, within weeks of their births being registered, we received letters from the DSW giving their respective RSI numbers. We needed those numbers to apply for child allowance and later to enrol them in national school.

When in the 1980's. The then data Protection Commissioner refused to allow schools collect RSI numbers.

jimmycrackcorm

Someone posted that the SA.2 form has the facility to add a beneficiary without PPSN subject to an undertaking not to distribute their share until it is provided in an amended form. Surely this is the answer to the OP's question?

Also, a nice plus to give that beneficiary as much of a run-around when they eventually do go looking for their inheritance.

Marcusm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

PPS numbers didn't exist in the 1980s. It is quite likely the person has a PPS and date of birth but the PPS number is validated by reference to the check character at the end. Once the o/p has a date of birth he can reverse engineer a PPSN.

Your statement is (arguably) correct as they were referred to as RSI numbers prior to 1998. However, the existed from 1979 when PAYE and social welfare numbers were combined into RSI (revenue and social insurance) numbers.

Claw Hammer

Marcusm wrote: »

Your statement is (arguably) correct as they were referred to as RSI numbers prior to 1998. However, the existed from 1979 when PAYE and social welfare numbers were combined into RSI (revenue and social insurance) numbers.

they were combined in 1978. The insurance year of 1978mended in April after 14 weeks and the next insurance year was 1978-79.

Marcusm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

they were combined in 1978. The insurance year of 1978mended in April after 14 weeks and the next insurance year was 1978-79.

So they did exist in the 1980s contrary to your assertion!

Claw Hammer

Marcusm wrote: »

So they did exist in the 1980s contrary to your assertion!

They were RSI number not PPS numbers.

ohnonotgmail

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They were RSI number not PPS numbers.

RSI numbers and PPS numbers are the same thing. They changed the name when they started using it for more purposes.

Claw Hammer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

RSI numbers and PPS numbers are the same thing. They changed the name when they started using it for more purposes.

They were originally PAYE numbers.

ohnonotgmail

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They were originally PAYE numbers.

indeed they were. PAYE numbers, RSI Numbers and PPS Numbers are the same thing. which is why saying

They were RSI number not PPS numbers.

makes no sense.

Claw Hammer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

indeed they were. PAYE numbers, RSI Numbers and PPS Numbers are the same thing. which is why saying

They are not the same thing. The same number may have started as one and then become another. It does not mean they are the same thing. Why change the name if they are the same thing.

Car99

There are some nice people ringing around about pps details at present , maybe you could ask them to help.

ohnonotgmail

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They are not the same thing. The same number may have started as one and then become another. It does not mean they are the same thing. Why change the name if they are the same thing.

as i already explained they started using the same number for additional purposes. what started out as a personal identifier for tax purposes then became the personal identifier for social welfare purposes which then became the personal identifier for all public services. I'm surprised you didnt know that.

coylemj

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They are not the same thing. The same number may have started as one and then become another. It does not mean they are the same thing.

They are the same thing, you're needlessly splitting hairs.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Why change the name if they are the same thing.

They change the names of Govt. departments all the time and it's not always because of responsibilities moving around. Is the Current Dept of Housing in the Custom House much different from when it was called the Dept. of Local Government?

How about the Dept. of Social Protection vs. the Dept. of Social Welfare?

And don't get me started on Marathon and Snickers, Opal Fruit and Starburst.

nuckeythompson

Had same issue ( not providing PPS )- just go through the motions and they will be asked to provide DOB to claim their share. Will not affect your share or others - theirs will be held until the fulfill revenue requirements

Claw Hammer

coylemj wrote: »

They change the names of Govt. departments all the time and it's not always because of responsibilities moving around. Is the Current Dept of Housing in the Custom House much different from when it was called the Dept. of Local Government?

How about the Dept. of Social Protection vs. the Dept. of Social Welfare?

When they change the name of a government department they have to enact a law stating that references to the old name are to be construed as references to the new name. If they were the same thing, that wouldn't be necessary. there was never any law stating that references to PAYE numbers were to be taken as references to RSI or PPS Numbers.

ohnonotgmail

Claw Hammer wrote: »

When they change the name of a government department they have to enact a law stating that references to the old name are to be construed as references to the new name. If they were the same thing, that wouldn't be necessary. there was never any law stating that references to PAYE numbers were to be taken as references to RSI or PPS Numbers.

The government certainly seem to think it is the same thing. https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Pages/ppsn.aspx

The PPS number was formerly known as the Revenue and Social Insurance (RSI) number.

CoBo55

Ah lads will ye give it a rest, the thread is about date of birth not PPS numbers.