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Thoughts on Category N cars?

  • 07-06-2021 7:47pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    Hi all,

    My friend is selling their 2018 Ford KA+ they had in the UK that had an insurance claim Category N (non-structural) due to damage to bumper due to slip on ice. They have the picture of the damage and was very minor but because it's a budget car the insurance classed it as category N, the lowest or minor damage claim.

    It's been fixed by a professional garage, inspected by another garage and serviced, MOT'd then NCT'd.

    What are peoples thoughts on buying a category N car? I personally would't buy a category S car but see no issues buying a category N car provided it was repaired professionally and cheaper to buy.

    It's funny that people have no problem buying Irish cars that have been damaged repaired yet not recorded as Ireland doesn't have an insurance claim registrar available for the public to check.

    Here is their advert, any tips welcome

    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2018-ford-ka-plus-1-25-85bhp-nct-june-2023/28350137


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ gallyind


    Hi all,

    My friend is selling their 2018 Ford KA+ they had in the UK that had an insurance claim Category N (non-structural) due to damage to bumper due to slip on ice. They have the picture of the damage and was very minor but because it's a budget car the insurance classed it as category N, the lowest or minor damage claim.

    It's been fixed by a professional garage, inspected by another garage and serviced, MOT'd then NCT'd.

    What are peoples thoughts on buying a category N car? I personally would't buy a category S car but see no issues buying a category N car provided it was repaired professionally and cheaper to buy.

    It's funny that people have no problem buying Irish cars that have been damaged repaired yet not recorded as Ireland doesn't have an insurance claim registrar available for the public to check.

    Here is their advert, any tips welcome

    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2018-ford-ka-plus-1-25-85bhp-nct-june-2023/28350137


    Do you have the vin of the vehicle ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    gallyind wrote: »
    Do you have the vin of the vehicle ?

    I presume they would have the VIN number. The old UK reg is stated in the advert.

    Why do you ask for the VIN?


  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ gallyind




  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ gallyind


    To check history properly


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    gallyind wrote: »

    This looks like a US Auction site.

    This KA+ never went to auction but bought back by my friend as it was their car.

    Do you think they should put a pic of the damage on the advert?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 72,767 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    Did your friend get a VRT exemption/transfer of residence?

    If she did, she can’t sell it here within 12 months.

    This car seems to have only been registered here last week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Did your friend get a VRT exemption/transfer of residence?

    If she did, she can’t sell it here within 12 months.

    This car seems to have only been registered here last week.

    Hi, no they did not qualify for VRT exemption.

    Here's more pics including damage

    https://imgur.com/gallery/DXRwYER


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,943 ✭✭✭✭ Toyotafanboi


    My friend is selling their 2018 Ford KA+ they had in the UK that had an insurance claim Category N (non-structural) due to damage to bumper due to slip on ice.

    That's the whole problem with Category N stuff in a nutshell.

    It takes a lot more than "a damaged bumper" to write off a 3 year old car, even a cheap one. Non structural doesn't rule out that it could have had a shed load of unpleasant repairs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭ User1998


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    This car seems to have only been registered here last week.

    Looks like its a trader selling the car too judging by the add ..

    You trying to make a quick buck on the car OP?


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    That's the whole problem with Category N stuff in a nutshell.

    It takes a lot more than "a damaged bumper" to write off a 3 year old car, even a cheap one. Non structural doesn't rule out that it could have had a shed load of unpleasant repairs.

    What worries me is that Irish cars that are damaged repaired have no such record for the public to check and they are more likely to be unpleasantly repaired.

    In fairness to U.K cars, there is a record kept for potential purchasers to check and to then check thoroughly the repair. With my friends KA+ they had it professionally repaired, then took it to another garage to service and assess repair, then MOT'd it, then NCT'd and have been driving it trouble free for the last 7 months! Insurance assessors during Covid19 simply looked at pictures of all and any damage of cars and made a desk judgement, they insurance company claimed a new bonnet as there was a stone chip on it.


    So, I don't get the scare mongering that Irish dealers say that they value UK cars lower due to unknown history etc, an Irish car is sure to have a more unknown history due to lack of paper trail.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭ Zylias


    There's one picture of what looks to be a cracked front bumper you can't see any damage on the bonnet.

    Why can't you clearly state what the actual damage was and the estimated cost to repair.

    I highly doubt they'd write off a new bumper as it would be 500/600 euro new and painted from factory.

    Something isn't adding up and you've added it in the Boardsies own cars for sale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭ Wildly Boaring


    1. It makes no sense to write off a 3 year old car for a bumper

    2. It's a UK car so VRT, Nox VAT and duty due

    3. It'll show on reports from now on so you'll never sell it on again so be prepared to drive till it expires.

    Edif. Ignore 2 it's been imported
    No idea why they'd do that. Throwing good money after bad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,943 ✭✭✭✭ Toyotafanboi


    What worries me is that Irish cars that are damaged repaired have no such record for the public to check and they are more likely to be unpleasantly repaired.

    In fairness to U.K cars, there is a record kept for potential purchasers to check and to then check thoroughly the repair. With my friends KA+ they had it professionally repaired, then took it to another garage to service and assess repair, then MOT'd it, then NCT'd and have been driving it trouble free for the last 7 months! Insurance assessors during Covid19 simply looked at pictures of all and any damage of cars and made a desk judgement, they insurance company claimed a new bonnet as there was a stone chip on it.


    So, I don't get the scare mongering that Irish dealers say that they value UK cars lower due to unknown history etc, an Irish car is sure to have a more unknown history due to lack of paper trail.

    Did i hit a nerve there or what?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭ User1998


    1. It makes no sense to write off a 3 year old car for a bumper

    2. It's a UK car so VRT, Nox VAT and duty due

    3. It'll show on reports from now on so you'll never sell it on again so be prepared to drive till it expires.

    1. Thats up to the insurance company

    2. The car is on Irish plates

    3. Obviously they will sell the car. It just needs to be priced right


  • Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭ 11wingnut


    What about car hire while repair is being done ? costs add up and transport of damaged car . and insurance can only use approved parts . sometimes availability is a problem.. i have bought several cat n cars for family and friends and driving one now . I am amazed at how little damage can get a vehicle made a cat n. I have bought motorcycles with ignition broke attempted theft sent to auction or just dropped.
    Bought one car missing a front wing , found it in the boot with bolts removed by assessor.. it hit a kerb bent an alloy and a ball joint (got it 4 wheel aligned no problem ). assessor proballu could not find the bend . neither could i until i removed and inspected ball joint .


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    Zylias wrote: »
    There's one picture of what looks to be a cracked front bumper you can't see any damage on the bonnet.

    Why can't you clearly state what the actual damage was and the estimated cost to repair.

    I highly doubt they'd write off a new bumper as it would be 500/600 euro new and painted from factory.

    Something isn't adding up and you've added it in the Boardsies own cars for sale.

    i) It states in the advert that it wasn't only the bumper that was replaced.

    ii) It was certainly more than 500/600 euro to repair, Can you show what Ford dealer sells a new painted front bumper with attachment grills etc and headlamp and painted with main dealer labour and car hire for 5/600 euro that includes replacement and/or paint of bonnet as it was chipped?

    iii) It says on the title that it is also for friends cars for sale?

    Thanks for comment


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭ Wildly Boaring


    User1998 wrote: »
    1. Thats up to the insurance company

    2. The car is on Irish plates

    3. Obviously they will sell the car. It just needs to be priced right

    1. Yep. But why. Sure a bumper is a grand max.

    2. Yep. Edited above. Seems silly to import

    3. I meant whoever buys today will struggle to sell in future. So buy a car that wasn't Cat N today


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    1. It makes no sense to write off a 3 year old car for a bumper

    2. It's a UK car so VRT, Nox VAT and duty due

    3. It'll show on reports from now on so you'll never sell it on again so be prepared to drive till it expires.

    Edif. Ignore 2 it's been imported
    No idea why they'd do that. Throwing good money after bad.

    See 11wingnut post @ 23:05

    It has been VRT'd! Just shows how in depth you looked at the advert before rushing to comment!

    Okay, Thanks for your feedback!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭ User1998


    1. Yep. But why. Sure a bumper is a grand max.

    2. Yep. Edited above. Seems silly to import

    3. I meant whoever buys today will struggle to sell in future. So buy a car that wasn't Cat N today

    Honestly I’m not sure. You see some cars with such little damage that are written off. Maybe there is more damage that meets the eye

    Agree that it would be difficult to sell. If the price is right it will definitely sell tho, no one will be stuck with the car. The older the car gets the less it matters really


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    User1998 wrote: »
    1. Thats up to the insurance company

    2. The car is on Irish plates

    3. Obviously they will sell the car. It just needs to be priced right

    Thanks for comment.

    Yes, even though Cat N cars have minimal damage and repaired professionally, I think they sell for 20% less on average.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭ User1998


    i) It states in the advert that it wasn't only the bumper that was replaced.

    ii) It was certainly more than 500/600 euro to repair, Can you show what Ford dealer sells a new painted front bumper with attachment grills etc and headlamp and painted with main dealer labour and car hire for 5/600 euro that includes replacement and/or paint of bonnet as it was chipped?

    iii) It says on the title that it is also for friends cars for sale?

    Thanks for comment

    You seem quite invested in this car. Is it yours? The add is very well put together and screams car dealer to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    11wingnut wrote: »
    What about car hire while repair is being done ? costs add up and transport of damaged car . and insurance can only use approved parts . sometimes availability is a problem.. i have bought several cat n cars for family and friends and driving one now . I am amazed at how little damage can get a vehicle made a cat n. I have bought motorcycles with ignition broke attempted theft sent to auction or just dropped.
    Bought one car missing a front wing , found it in the boot with bolts removed by assessor.. it hit a kerb bent an alloy and a ball joint (got it 4 wheel aligned no problem ). assessor proballu could not find the bend . neither could i until i removed and inspected ball joint .

    You raise a good point about availability of parts. Logistics could have been hampered during Covid19 making care hire extended by weeks. In addition to some insurance assessors assessing damage at their desk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭ Wildly Boaring


    See 11wingnut post @ 23:05

    It has been VRT'd! Just shows how in depth you looked at the advert before rushing to comment!

    Okay, Thanks for your feedback!


    You posted looking for opinions,

    I'd not touch a Cat C, D or N with a barge pole.
    Neither will most purchasers.

    I had 2 tips in the uk
    Both required fairly serious repairs.
    Neither got near a Cat anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    User1998 wrote: »
    You seem quite invested in this car. Is it yours? The add is very well put together and screams car dealer to me.

    If the owner wants to give me commission for selling to a boardsie I won't refuse! lol

    The owner is into photography which shows in the advert. It is also a very transparent advert with a lot of details, I don;t think that's a crime or specific to car dealers.

    I asked if anyone would have issues buying a Cat N car, for which I received only 2 responses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    You posted looking for opinions,

    I'd not touch a Cat C, D or N with a barge pole.
    Neither will most purchasers.

    I had 2 tips in the uk
    Both required fairly serious repairs.
    Neither got near a Cat anything.

    Personally I wouldn't touch a Category S car, given it's structural.

    It is concerning though that in Ireland there is no record for the public to check whether an Irish car was damaged repaired.

    I once had a front on crash with a rental Hyundai i20 driven by Americans on the other side of the road. Both my car and the rental i20 were write offs, however 3 months later the exact same i20 with the same reg was on a garage forecourt for sale for full price! Checking the Irish reg wouldn't tell a potential purchaser about the front on impact I had with that i20.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭ User1998


    If the owner wants to give me commission for selling to a boardsie I won't refuse! lol

    The owner is into photography which shows in the advert. It is also a very transparent advert with a lot of details, I don;t think that's a crime or specific to car dealers.

    I asked if anyone would have issues buying a Cat N car, for which I received only 2 responses.

    Very nice photography indeed.

    Me personally I owned a category d car before. Bought it cheap and sold it cheap. The only thing that puts me off them is the hassle of selling them afterwards


  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ gallyind


    This looks like a US Auction site.

    This KA+ never went to auction but bought back by my friend as it was their car.

    Do you think they should put a pic of the damage on the advert?

    Works for all uk aswell, inc salvage auctions, if the car went thru auctions its there,


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,767 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    Sure didn’t the OP sell a Cat N Ford Focus before too?


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Sure didn’t the OP sell a Cat N Ford Focus before too?

    Hi, no I've had a Reno Clio that I sold when I relocated from UK. I had it from new and it was never damaged.

    My friends has been damaged, it's a KA+ and they're the 2nd owner.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Comment_below


    gallyind wrote: »
    Works for all uk aswell, inc salvage auctions, if the car went thru auctions its there,

    Ah okay, my friend retained the car so it was never sent the auction.


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