Graham Dwyer - latest

Asdfgh2020

Seems like Ireland’s most sick of sick depraved sadistic citizens ever is getting the EU Courts to make a judgement on the legality of the state gathering and using his mobile phone data to convict him. Doe this mean he is possibly one step closer to freedom if he succeeds….?

Then the question arises if he was released would he be given a new identify In Case be was harassed/assaulted/battered by someone?

biko

The sauce for this?

Tazium

biko wrote: »

The sauce for this?

Whatever flavour you like but use a large pinch of salt

Asdfgh2020

biko wrote: »

The sauce for this?

Ketchup….I take it you mean ‘source’…..?

Story in today’s ‘Sindo’

Beechwoodspark

biko wrote: »

The sauce for this?

See references to this on social media.

What’s that mean ?

KungPao

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

See references to this on social media.

What’s that mean ?

Sauce just means source. Internet lingo for a long time now.

Speedsie

Case being heard in Luxembourg in June 24th.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/graham-dwyer-case-contesting-murder-evidence-to-be-heard-incourt-next-month-40483903.html

Augme

I'll be amazed if you could find a jury who were willing to find him not guilty in a re-trial.

Gatling

Augme wrote: »

I'll be amazed if you could find a jury who were willing to find him not guilty in a re-trial.

But would it make it to another trial due to how infamous the case already is ,

Why would you think he could get a new identity?

JackTC

Could anything serious come of this or are just stringing him along to make him happy?

Gatling

JackTC wrote: »

Could anything serious come of this or are just stringing him along to make him happy?

If successful other cases and other appeals could be influenced in favour of criminals

Beechwoodspark

KungPao wrote: »

Sauce just means source. Internet lingo for a long time now.

Sort of like an American accent saying source?

Del Boy

His poor wife. Imagine him coming knocking on the door wanting to see his kids. Surely the EU court couldn't rule against using mobile data in such a case.

crooked cockney villain

Augme wrote: »

I'll be amazed if you could find a jury who were willing to find him not guilty in a re-trial.

Not sure it would be up to them. Fairly sure I've seen cases where a judge ordered the jury to deliver a not guilty because whatever procedures were meant to be adhered to had fallen short.

Del Boy wrote: »

His poor wife. Imagine him coming knocking on the door wanting to see his kids. Surely the EU court couldn't rule against using mobile data in such a case.

I'm assuming they are now divorced, and that even if he was to be found not guilty she could argue that the videos he took of himself tortuing women, along with his absolutely batshyt manifesto found on his laptop, would be more than enough to prevent access.

Thing is, from reading about the case at the time, Dwyer was a man obsessed with his standing in society.

When he is released, he will never work at anything again, let alone a high paid job like architect. His home is gone, his wife and kids have left him, he effectively has nothing left to live for. He will go from a six figure earning homeowner in Foxrock to an unemployed loner living with his parents in small town Cork (unless he has a few quid from the house sale)

That, in my view, makes him more dangerous than ever. He could do an abduction and kill himself before capture.

BattleCorp

Del Boy wrote: »

His poor wife. Imagine him coming knocking on the door wanting to see his kids. Surely the EU court couldn't rule against using mobile data in such a case.

Courts only deal in law. They have to rule according to what the law says, they can't let emotions come into it.

Augme

Gatling wrote: »

But would it make it to another trial due to how infamous the case already is ,

Don't think you can't re try someone just because of how infamous he is.

Agent Coulson

Isn’t it rumoured the reason the Garda haven’t gone after gangland here using the encrypted phone evidence they have like there counterparts around Europe is until the outcome of Dwyer’s challenge is heard.

Muahahaha

JackTC wrote: »

Could anything serious come of this or are just stringing him along to make him happy?

Serious enough if the Sindo reporting is true. They said Dwyer is expected to win his European case at the end of June and then use that ruling to appeal his conviction here. It says he could be released from prison by the end of this year pending a re-trial. If there is a re-trial the media will have a field day getting to re-hash all that salacious evidence again.

Id also imagine this ruling will have knock on consequences for other convictions that were based on mobile phone data

Would there ever be a re trial, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to re try for the same offence

monkeybutter

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would there ever be a re trial, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to re try for the same offence

If the appeal rendered the original trial was in err due to part of the evidence being illegaly obtained then they could retrial

But it would be impossible to get a fair trial after

given his guilt

The whole trial hung on the mobile geo data

Glaceon

Muahahaha wrote: »

Id also imagine this ruling will have knock on consequences for other convictions that were based on mobile phone data

Joe O'Reilly would be rubbing his hands I'm sure.

LMHC

Is it not already a done deal. Alan Wilson won the same ruling. If he wins it hell never do another day in jail. Unsafe conviction then due to media hyperbole he will have an "unfair retrial" Graham more then likely back on his sick websites come end of summer.

BattleCorp

monkeybutter wrote: »

If the appeal rendered the original trial was in err due to part of the evidence being illegaly obtained then they could retrial

But it would be impossible to get a fair trial after

given his guilt

The whole trial hung on the mobile geo data

There wasn't much hard evidence against Dwyer to be honest. Take away the phone evidence and he could walk in a retrial.

LMHC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would there ever be a re trial, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to re try for the same offence

No unless your acquitted retrial is fine. Mark farrelly tiger kidnapper 3 trials I think it was on same offence.

Brian?

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Isn’t it rumoured the reason the Garda haven’t gone after gangland here using the encrypted phone evidence they have like there counterparts around Europe is until the outcome of Dwyer’s challenge is heard.

Actually it isn’t. Someone I know does it for the Gardaí.

His evidence was used in this case and the hotel shooting, plus many more.

The details of it are extremely interesting, I don’t think this appeal has a hope.

LMHC

Brian? wrote: »

Actually it isn’t. Someone I know does it for the Gardaí.

His evidence was used in this case and the hotel shooting, plus many more.

The details of it are extremely interesting, I don’t think this appeal has a hope.

Really? Your obviously sleeping on the moon. His appeal won in the Irish courts they appealed it. He's winning it

Brian?

LMHC wrote: »

Really? Your obviously sleeping on the moon. His appeal won in the Irish courts they appealed it. He's winning it

We’ll see. If he does a lot of people are getting out of jail all over Europe. The same methods are used everywhere

LMHC

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/mobile-phone-records-not-given-to-alan-wilson-jury-30479404.html

This was the start of Grahams action, leading to him winning his action in irish courts then the state appealed to Europe.

If you live in foxrock and your daughter or ma is a kinkster lock her up. Hereesss Johnny.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/state-set-to-lose-european-court-case-over-graham-dwyer-s-mobile-phone-records-1.4410016?mode=amp

Speedline

Brian? wrote: »

We’ll see. If he does a lot of people are getting out of jail all over Europe. The same methods are used everywhere

I think the issue in Dwyers case is data retention, or more so how long they are allowed retain it for. I could be way off track though.

LMHC

Brian? wrote: »

We’ll see. If he does a lot of people are getting out of jail all over Europe. The same methods are used everywhere

Not never country refers to the Europeans courts. We do.

LMHC

Speedline wrote: »

I think the issue in Dwyers case is data retention, or more so how long they are allowed retain it for. I could be way off track though.

Your right.

Speedline

LMHC wrote: »

Your right.

This gives an explanation. https://www.matheson.com/insights/detail/graham-dwyer-supreme-court-decision---data-retention-in-the-spotlight

Brian?

Speedline wrote: »

I think the issue in Dwyers case is data retention, or more so how long they are allowed retain it for. I could be way off track though.

That’s exactly it.

monkeybutter

BattleCorp wrote: »

There wasn't much hard evidence against Dwyer to be honest. Take away the phone evidence and he could walk in a retrial.

Zero hard evidence given the time

Overwhelming circumstantial evidence

Great work by an Garda to be honest, a mobile really is noose to hang yourself on

Tying the two phones together at the toll booths really was feckin interesting

It was a remarkable case really given the luck in finding the phones with her loyalty card and good weather giving a low water level

Better than any crime novel

Pete_Cavan

Law in general if completely fcuked up if Dwyer wins this case. Why should mobile data be considered so private that it can not be used to convict a murderer? Surely there is a stronger argument for your DNA being more private, it is literally part of your very being, could it be ruled inadmissible in court, not giving your permission to use yourself as evidence against yourself or something like that?

The law is supposed to be about justice, I don't see how justice can be served by ignoring evidence that proves someone committed a murder.

LMHC

monkeybutter wrote: »

Zero hard evidence given the time

Overwhelming circumstantial evidence

Great work by an Garda to be honest, a mobile really is noose to hang yourself on

Tying the two phones together at the toll booths really was feckin interesting

It was a remarkable case really given the luck in finding the phones with her loyalty card and good weather giving a low water level

Better than any crime novel

I had the privilege or curse of meeting Graham hahah he worked in prison with us. Super intelligent but a devious huuuure.

Brian?

monkeybutter wrote: »

Zero hard evidence given the time

Overwhelming circumstantial evidence

Great work by an Garda to be honest, a mobile really is noose to hang yourself on

Tying the two phones together at the toll booths really was feckin interesting

It was a remarkable case really given the luck in finding the phones with her loyalty card and good weather giving a low water level

Better than any crime novel

Yeah. The only mistake he made was having the burner phone and his own phone both on for a couple of minutes and one time. Everything was linked back to that

Brian?

LMHC wrote: »

Not never country refers to the Europeans courts. We do.

Every EU country does, doesn’t it?

Leg End Reject

Del Boy wrote: »

His poor wife. Imagine him coming knocking on the door wanting to see his kids. Surely the EU court couldn't rule against using mobile data in such a case.

My sympathy is with his ex-wife and children and Elaine's family. It's awful that he wants to replay the media circus after what he did.

BattleCorp

monkeybutter wrote: »

Zero hard evidence given the time

Overwhelming circumstantial evidence

Take away the phone evidence and your circumstantial evidence becomes seriously less than overwhelming.

LMHC

Brian? wrote: »

Every EU country does, doesn’t it?

No they are meant to but a lot deal with there own appeals. Prisoner fan bring human rights abuse to Europe but a lot of eastern bloc countries don't take on judgement.

LMHC

Leg End Reject wrote: »

My sympathy is with his ex-wife and children and Elaine's family. It's awful that he wants to replay the media circus after what he did.

Why if you thought you'd a chance of winning or staying in for life. Which life will be life for him.

The circus could camp in me garden.

banie01

The manner of the retention of O'Dwyers data and by extension other cases that are built on the retention of call logs and other data and use of mast and geolocation data have huge legal implications.

The data retained and its use even if in convicting an absolute monster are going to likely be struck down.
It's an absolute travesty, but if the data retention policy is struck down a major tool in combating criminality could well be lost.

It's become quite difficult for even valid warrants presented to Telco's in the past 3yrs to be actioned appropriately.
There is huge pushback from legal in any Telco I have knowledge of.
The O'Dwyer SC case has led to some warrants being challenged in court. Data is being actioned and gathered as per warrants issued in some instances but not handed over to the Gardaí until the legal ramifications of the ECJ case are resolved and digested.

LMHC

There's been a lot of cases recently where Data from phones led to the release of prisoners. I know 2 who were charged allegedly selling a firearm they were in custody for 12 months due to this ruling on first day of trial jury was discharged in April of this year and 2 lads sent home as case was built on Data.

Leg End Reject

LMHC wrote: »

Why if you thought you'd a chance of winning or staying in for life. Which life will be life for him.

The circus could camp in me garden.

I didn't mention him at all, just said my sympathy is with his and Elaine's family.

LMHC

Leg End Reject wrote: »

I didn't mention him at all, just said my sympathy is with his and Elaine's family.

Ah understand yeah your right for sure. Graham is a sociopath so will love this.

Brian?

LMHC wrote: »

No they are meant to but a lot deal with there own appeals. Prisoner fan bring human rights abuse to Europe but a lot of eastern bloc countries don't take on judgement.

I don’t think a EU country can ignore a ruling from the EU courts.

monkeybutter

BattleCorp wrote: »

Take away the phone evidence and your circumstantial evidence becomes seriously less than overwhelming.

Are you arguing or something, that's obvious

It ties the rest of the evidence up, it links the phone to him

Once you have the phone you have te messages and the relationship between them

monkeybutter

Brian? wrote: »

Yeah. The only mistake he made was having the burner phone and his own phone both on for a couple of minutes and one time. Everything was linked back to that

Nah he had the two phones side by side all the time, it's just narrowing it down

They had him in cork Galway etc and his toll tag logged so once out of dublin on the same date multiple times there was no denying it was him

BattleCorp

monkeybutter wrote: »

Are you arguing or something, that's obvious

It ties the rest of the evidence up, it links the phone to him

Once you have the phone you have te messages and the relationship between them

Even with the phone evidence being admitted, I'm surprised he was convicted. I think he did it for sure, but the evidence against him was weak enough.