Remote working - the future?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323280#Comment_118323280

Would you like the option to WFH and get a couple of grand extra?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323282#Comment_118323282

Jesus, dog with a bone is an understatement!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323282#Comment_118323282

I suspect your employer may decide that your attendance in the office is essential.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323625#Comment_118323625

Do you reckon that most employers would prefer to walk away from ALL the potential very substantial cost savings, rather than consider sharing some of these savings with employees?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323642#Comment_118323642

I reckon wfh is new and evolving way of working for both employees and employers. The benefits for employees are obvious, and have been explained to you multiple times. No doubt some employees will still need to attend offices, if you feel hard done-by in wfh, perhaps it would be better for both yourself and your employer if you return to your office.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323650#Comment_118323650

Nice sidestep there. As has been explained to you multiple times, it's not about me or my employer. Try to see the big picture.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323642#Comment_118323642

Do you recon that your employer will pay you more to work remotely if you become problematic when the can hire someone else to work remotely instead? Employers aren’t going to walk away from the savings, they will just walk away from you.

As there is no right to wfh, I don’t see why Andrew should not be accommodated in the office.

To answer your question Andrew, the employers won’t walk away, no doubt they will either accommodate those who have a problem with wfh by allowing them to go to the office, or let them leave. There is a lot of demand for wfh positions, most people welcome it as evidenced by the number who have responded to your rants. But if it’s not for you, so be it, move on.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323710#Comment_118323710

Or to put it the other way:

Employee to self: I can work from anywhere.

Employer to self: anyone anywhere can do that job

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323042#Comment_118323042

Define a couple of grand. I used to need a monthly Luas ticket. I don't anymore. That alone is a saving of 1200 a year. I used to pay 1500 for an apartment in Dublin, I now pay just under 1000 for an apartment in Galway, that saves me 6000 a year. Those savings alone come to 7200. I can easily afford the extra lighting and heating from that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118320365#Comment_118320365

That is some strawman logic right there.

bokale

The bickering on these threads is funny.

It's subjective depending on a person's situation whether wfh is "good or bad".

The guy moving to galway is potentially having a great time, the guy who is paying off a big mortgage for a short walk to the office is maybe not loving it as much right now.

The guy with a nice office space at home is delighted. I for one prefer my home setup to what is offered in work. Monitor, keyboard ,chair etc.

The guy with no spare room is maybe finding it all a bit meh.

There's people who like their own company and focusing on work. People with clubs and interests in their community.

Then there's people who enjoyed the social aspect of working with people. And lunchtime with their colleagues.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324797#Comment_118324797

Savings from your net pay too.

The problem Andrew is that if employees start insisting on being compensated fully for L&H and space well then it starts to tip the equation back in favour of office based employees for employers - as this decision starts to have a tangible cost, with less tangible benefits (like lower staff turnover). It's a case of picking your battles especially when you could lose it all.

Any employee with an ounce of sense knows that when you start to ask an employer to actually spend money on something, you encounter resistance and would possibly see the benefit reversed - because you risk turning it into a net negative for the employer. Or as we put it in our place, you don't rock the boat when you're onto a good thing. WfH generally has a greater net positive for the employee over the employer, but currently is still positive or neutral for both. So when someone is saving €8k per year from their net salary, most, if not all are willing to take the increased costs of running an office in the home on the chin because of the overall massive net positive for them.

So maybe in a few years when WFH is established normality outside of pandemic conditions I'd suggest employees could look for home office payments. But until then I would suggest they hold their fire least they end up in a worse position through losing the benefit entirely.

whippet

I've been WFH 90% of the time for the last 5 years - I loved it right up until Covid kicked in. Suddenly the amount of pointless meeting over Teams grew by about 300% ... customers / suppliers / partners suddenly decided they needed to fill their calendars with meetings.

I've spent the last 6 months or so more or less rejecting any invites that I know will not have a defined outcome or agenda - the sooner people learn that meetings need a purpose and measurable outcome the better.

Before covid I met up with my colleagues a couple of times a week - the odd time in the office but more often for lunch or a coffee and it was perfect - covid put the mockers on that and being stuck in the house with very little social interactions has been tough.

My old commute could take up to 2 hours each way due to the madness that the M50 is and that was the biggest issue with working in an office - I don't want to live in Dublin so either WFH or suffer the M1/M50 nightmare.

Fortunately I used lockdown well to do some professional exams and I'll be starting an new job in January - it will be office based (once restrictions are removed) .. but it is less than 5 mins drive from my house, 20min cycle and right beside the kids school. I'm actually looking forward to getting back to an office - and it will be flexible so won't need to be there everyday.

Anyway - remote working is old news - hopefully this will be the future

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tech-company-typetec-moving-staff-to-four-day-week-on-full-pay-an-obvious-next-step-for-us-41150797.html

kathleen37

Anyway - remote working is old news - hopefully this will be the future

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tech-company-typetec-moving-staff-to-four-day-week-on-full-pay-an-obvious-next-step-for-us-41150797.html

Hahah - yes - old news! (permanent work for home for me, happy with that, but it suits me. Have space for an office I can close the door on)

I've been doing a four day weeks since June. Completely excellent. Love it!!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328583#Comment_118328583

And my MNC has just gone to a no limit on annual leave policy. In Ireland you have to show you’ve taken the statutory minimum, but arrangements beyond that are down to you and your management. It’s massive flexibility, especially when combined with hybrid working, to load up some days and have some days just off to do other things.

It takes a very mature management and HR structure to make it work, and a focus on work and delivery rather than presentism and micro management. Luckily we have the former in spades (and the reality is that most of us in my firm have been doing it informally already)

mojesius

I work for a MNC who is broadly planning on a hybrid model once government gives the go ahead on return to office. But they've made some roles eligible for fully remote. Luckily my role is eligible, so I applied and got it. I am thrilled.

The savings in money are huge - No annual commuter ticket, no need for a second car to get to dart station, and spending far less on office attire.

But the biggest benefit for me is time. I save 3 hours a day commuting. 3 hours that I get to spend with my kids and husband. When my eldest (daughter) was one, I missed out on so many milestones because I was out the door at 7am and not back until 7pm 4 days a week. Weekends I was exhausted. I'm far more productive and happy.

jessica890

ITS A TOUGH AND FIRST TIME SITUATION FOR ALL SO SOLUTION IS NOT IN THE FAVOR FOR COMPANIES OR EMPLOYEES.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328813#Comment_118328813

For me, its little things like laundry. It takes 5 minutes to load the washing machine, 5 minutes to unload it. Load it, unload it at some point during the day, come 6pm, when you have finished your work day, the laundry is done too. A regular annoyance for me was doing a days work in the office, 1 to 2 hour commute home, and either have to load the washing machine or hang up the stuff. It felt more arduous after a long day. Get home at 7 or 8, you want an early night, but you have to wait for the washing to finish so you can hang it up so you have a clean shirt for the morning. These little things with working from home, makes life a little bit easier.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324909#Comment_118324909

Theoretically, you're correct here, there is a danger of tipping the balance. But that danger is very small. The potential savings for the employer are very substantial. There is lots of scope for some kind of sharing of costs to create a win-win for both sides.

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333128#Comment_118333128

a breakthrough of sorts! you say the danger is very small, but the possible repercussions are huge (e.g. an employer retreating from a 100% wfh offering), hence most people just want to lie low for the time being and try secure remote work into the future.

Strumms

You’ll have the parents using it as an excuse to dance attendance and attention on families and get domestic shît done at home… people IN work trying to get a hold of them or hold them accountable to timelines etc… and just have performances monitored will be impossible…

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333139#Comment_118333139

There's going to be one opportunity to negotiate on this. If you go into any negotiation, you need to know what's in it for the other side. In this case, the other side has a lot more to gain, and potentially a lot more to lose.

exitstageleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333198#Comment_118333198

I don't really understand why this couldn't be sorted out. If you're working at any tech company you're expected to respond to instant messenger. You get pinged all the time. If you regularly take minutes to answer it's clear you're taking the piss. That gets addressed in your performance review or sooner if it's highly problematic.

Sure businesses could easily use key monitoring software if they want to. I wouldn't be in favour of that at all but it's just to give an example of how you can manage WFH employees.

I think things only seem pretty loose at the moment because suddenly loads of people were working at home with almost zero organisational prepwork. Again, look at tech firms where people have been WFH for years. People aren't able to get away with doing household chores all day and running their kids around.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118334254#Comment_118334254

Been working at home for years, in a US tech & data MNC in Dublin and London. And yes, I can still get some chores done during the day

Hotblack Desiato

There I was thinking a competent manager would look at outputs not instant bloody messenger. The new WFH presenteeism.

exitstageleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118334425#Comment_118334425

Absolutely. You can put on a wash or fill the dishwasher on a coffee break. But you'd hardly get away with repainting the living room.

My point is just that being worried about staff not doing their work when working from home is a bit overblown. It can be managed properly.

And I agree with Hotblack above, that competent management would look at delivery and output ahead of presenteeism. (But I wouldn't be surprised to see presenteeism via instant messenger apps becoming more prevalent).

Mrs OBumble

Plenty of jobs require you to be present (either physically of virtually) to answer customer queries during working hours. Even more expect you to present to join in conversations with colleagues during assigned working hours.

And all jobs are required to manage your working hours, to ensure you are getting the legally required breaks and mot averaging more than 48 hours/week.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336490#Comment_118336490

I’m in meeting with colleagues all the time…doesn’t preclude me from getting down to the post office, doing the laundry or heading out for a coffee

C3PO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333128#Comment_118333128

I don't believe that your claim that there are large imminent savings for employers is based in reality!

For starters most employers are tied into long-leases and will have to continue paying these until they terminate.

But more importantly I don't think that overall office footprints will diminish in the future but rather the way that the space will be used will change. I work as the facilities manager for a financial services company and we are currently in the early stages of planning an office move. The new office will be as big as the old one but will have far fewer desks and much more collaborative and meeting space. In the proposed hybrid model of working, people will be required to come into the office for "purposeful" reasons not just to sit at a desk and do what they can do equally well remotely - which makes lots of sense to me? Every effort will be made to make the office a productive and attractive place to spend time. But there will be no saving to the employer in terms of office rent, in fact the fit out will be significantly more expensive than a traditional office space. And this is not just my experience but also borne out by an article in today’s IT.