Going for drinks with future employer after interview

Ubbquittious

A fella told me there recently about a company that had an extremely long drawn out interview process. One day he did about 6 one-to-one sessions with different people and he was also invited along for drinks after. Now at that point if I actually wanted the job I would politely decline and tell them I have a sick auntie in hospital or some such thing because I'd be after smelling a massive rat.


One might naively think they're being friendly and a really cool crowd to get along with but of course business is business and really it's just a continuation of the interview. It is extremely easy to slip up in that situation. At this stage I wouldn't even go to the Christmas party until I've been made permanent.



Anyone know of other companies who do this? or perhaps you have some drunk-interviewing experience of your own?

bnt

You'd be right to call it "a continuation of the interview", for sure. They'd be watching for things such as how you talk to the bar staff, or whether your tongue gets sharp when you have a drink in you. Personally, I wouldn't have a major problem going for one drink - literally, one - then politely bailing.

Yeah continuation of interview. Standard enough in Big4 or company's where you would be expected to network. I'd go for a couple and be aware to that fact.

Ubbquittious

Malcolm Low Climber wrote: »

Yeah continuation of interview. Standard enough in Big4 or company's where you would be expected to network. I'd go for a couple and be aware to that fact.

Big4?

punisher5112

See no issues going along but have a get out option if you feel uneasy or afraid you will do or say something wrong with a few drinks.

Ubbquittious

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Big4?

Big4 Accountancy Firms. I'm sure other big company's such as the legal ones do similar. I think it's more so with the younger workers this thing happens.

shtpEdthePlum

I did this and ended up reading the signals wrong and trying to go home with the boss. Didn't get the job.

JustAThought

bnt wrote: »

You'd be right to call it "a continuation of the interview", for sure. They'd be watching for things such as how you talk to the bar staff, or whether your tongue gets sharp when you have a drink in you. Personally, I wouldn't have a major problem going for one drink - literally, one - then politely bailing.

I’d make it a non alcoholic beer - even if you don’t drink them. People are inherently suspicious of people who don’t drink & you can be sure they have all agreed and well rehearsed their pointy questions to see if you are an idealogical fit. Prepare for open /leading questions on gender, unisex toilets and abortion etc. They won’t be taking any prisoners. Have a look at the company mission & values - that should spell out to you what you are allowed think.

Personally I think its a bad precedent but if you look at ALL time spent with the company as ‘best behaviour’ time it’ll go ok for you. I used have a few jobs that involved a lot of travel/corporate functions and representing the company at high profile events - I held many drinks but never drank and always kept the company line - even when asked and encouraged - people everywhere would be happy for an advantage, discount or promotion on your back. Nothing has changed. Just more obviously transparent in looking.

silliussoddius

Malcolm Low Climber wrote: »

Big4 Accountancy Firms. I'm sure other big company's such as the legal ones do similar. I think it's more so with the younger workers this thing happens.

Probably to lull them into thinking about the good environment/culture before sending them out for 12 hour days to the likes of Anglo.

SupaCat95

bnt wrote: »

...... Personally, I wouldn't have a major problem going for one drink - literally, one - then politely bailing.

The problem is ..... it is never just one. Could be checking for loose lips that sink ships.

jackboy

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Big4?

Aldi,Lidl, Tesco and Dunnes.

AdrianBalboa

JustAThought wrote: »

I’d make it a non alcoholic beer - even if you don’t drink them. People are inherently suspicious of people who don’t drink & you can be sure they have all agreed and well rehearsed their pointy questions to see if you are an idealogical fit. Prepare for open /leading questions on gender, unisex toilets and abortion etc. They won’t be taking any prisoners. Have a look at the company mission & values - that should spell out to you what you are allowed think.

The paranoia is insane. You’re telling people to be careful in case someone plies them with drink and starts asking them to explain their position on abortion when they are at their most vulnerable. Maybe people should travel in groups in case someone might drag them down a piss-soaked alley at night and confront them about immigration, or carry a debate-whistle.

Ubbquittious

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

The paranoia is insane. You’re telling people to be careful in case someone plies them with drink and starts asking them to explain their position on abortion when they are at their most vulnerable. Maybe people should travel in groups in case someone might drag them down a piss-soaked alley at night and confront them about immigration, or carry a debate-whistle.

Maybe that scenario is exaggerated but they're certainly out to get you in those situations.

silliussoddius

silliussoddius wrote: »

Probably to lull them into thinking about the good environment/culture before sending them out for 12 hour days to the likes of Anglo.

Basically yeah! I've heard of Big4 intern auditors counting chickens out in Kepak Clonee which is arguable worse.

I worked for Deloitte as an experienced hire abroad and lasted 4 months. Absolutely hated the culture. Everyone sitting around the office at 10 pm at night following a day out doing fieldwork having their takeaway dinners. Not for me.

silliussoddius

Malcolm Low Climber wrote: »

Basically yeah! I've heard of Big4 intern auditors counting chickens out in Kepak Clonee which is arguable worse.

I worked for Deloitte as an experienced hire abroad and lasted 4 months. Absolutely hated the culture. Everyone sitting around the office at 10 pm at night following a day out doing fieldwork having their takeaway dinners. Not for me.

I studied accounting in college and hated auditing, one person told me the only thing worse than studying it is working it.

buried

Ubbquittious wrote: »

A fella told me there recently about a company that had an extremely long drawn out interview process. One day he did about 6 one-to-one sessions with different people and he was also invited along for drinks after. Now at that point if I actually wanted the job I would politely decline and tell them I have a sick auntie in hospital or some such thing because I'd be after smelling a massive rat.

I'd tell them the pubs are closed for the last year and then ask them what sort of shoddy operation are they running where they don't even know that this is happening.

Treppen

Sounds like they're lonely.

Tell them no and you're not interviewing for friends at the moment.

dotsman

Don't see a big problem with it.

Just want to see what kind of person you are outside of the formality and stuffiness of an interview etc. I would see it as a good technique (for both manager and candidate) to see if the candidate/team are a good fit for team-based roles etc.

As someone who has unfortunately had to give a lot of interviews over the past few years (probably close to 100 by now), I often joke I would rather interview the candidate over a pint. A decent, casual free-flowing conversation will tell you a lot more about a person and their true knowledge/abilities/passion etc than a formal, dull Q&A interview.

Rrrrrr2

You’d want to be desperate to land the position. Work is fine but I like clear boundaries between it and private life, views and tastes.

Esse85

Doesn't sound like a company I'd want to work for.
Judge me on my cv and during the interview all you want, but fcuk that if you think I'll act like I'm at a dog and pony show in the pub with a bunch of larger louts.

Mrs OBumble

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

The paranoia is insane. You’re telling people to be careful in case someone plies them with drink and starts asking them to explain their position on abortion when they are at their most vulnerable. Maybe people should travel in groups in case someone might drag them down a piss-soaked alley at night and confront them about immigration, or carry a debate-whistle.

Not even slightly insane. Caution totally justified - and if you want the job, go for the drink.

SupaCat95

dotsman wrote: »

Just want to see what kind of person you are outside of the formality and stuffiness of an interview etc. I would see it as a good technique (for both manager and candidate) to see if the candidate/team are a good fit for team-based roles etc.

As someone who has unfortunately had to give a lot of interviews over the past few years (probably close to 100 by now), I often joke I would rather interview the candidate over a pint. A decent, casual free-flowing conversation will tell you a lot more about a person and their true knowledge/abilities/passion etc than a formal, dull Q&A interview.

It doesnt matter what people do in their own private time, as long as they are not breaking the law. You pay for my time 9 to 5, people dont have the right to call after that time unless they are bleeding out and have been through every last number in their phone book. I dont do personal calls or social media at work, they dont have the right to call you after hours. Professional boundaries.

I bet you would love interviewing them that way after a few pints and their defenses are down, yourself and HR can work out a plan how to fire them when they get top heavy (Youtube Count Dankula and Call Centers).

What if you took a vulnerable candidate out for a drink? Someone with mental health issues, addiction issues or some other mental fallibility? Business is 9 to 5. I think it would be inappropriate tactics.

JeffKenna

A lot of people would have drove to the interview, perfect excuse to have a non alcoholic drink and bail then.

buried

If they invite you out for a drink, make sure you tell them that they are the ones who will be paying for all drinks.

You didn't invite them anywhere.

They invited you.

This will show good corporate moxy initiative.

SupaCat95

Doesnt that come across as creepy or predatory to you? That you have to resort to use liqour to probe a personality. That is exactly the same kind of person who takes a girl out and tries to get her drunk.

I guess I am not getting the job?

Richard Hillman

Have your couple of drinks and probe them. If it turns out there are bellends, then you got a lucky escape.

SupaCat95

Anyone remember a TV reality show for a PR job at a top firm in Dublin a few years back? Like the Apprentice but not the apprentice?
They took all the candidates down to Monard spa in Co Wexford. The candidates who had two or more drinks with the clients were chastised on the show. They ranged in two drinks to a bit messy.

I hate the term of Business After Hours.

Fuascailteoir

Make sure that you are last in the round, only order from the expensive top shelf whiskeys and then make your excuses and leave when it is your turn

buried

Yes, only order the top shelf whiskeys. And make sure they are top shelf Japanese whiskeys. This will also show top shelf corporate moxyness.
Do that and you could well be heading up the company in a matter of hours.

The DayDream

I would arrive late, order a round of shots and point to the boss. 'Put it on his tab, barkeep!' I'd roar. Then light the spirits on fire and down them all myself. Then I would demand a raise. And a secretary. Even though the position I was applying for was to BE a secretary.

'He's got balls,' they'd say.

'Damn right,' I'd say, while I lift my skirt to prove it.

dotsman

SupaCat95 wrote: »

It doesnt matter what people do in their own private time, as long as they are not breaking the law. You pay for my time 9 to 5, people dont have the right to call after that time unless they are bleeding out and have been through every last number in their phone book. I dont do personal calls or social media at work, they dont have the right to call you after hours. Professional boundaries.

I bet you would love interviewing them that way after a few pints and their defenses are down, yourself and HR can work out a plan how to fire them when they get top heavy (Youtube Count Dankula and Call Centers).

What if you took a vulnerable candidate out for a drink? Someone with mental health issues, addiction issues or some other mental fallibility? Business is 9 to 5. I think it would be inappropriate tactics.

Where are you getting the "tactics" or "plan" from? You are extremely cynical.

In team-based roles, how well you get on with everyone else is just as important as the other criteria. As I said, a decent, casual free-flowing conversation is a great way to get to know how someone will fit onto a team.

Also, your obvious lack of flexibility or dedication would say you would be a terrible fit.

P.S. In most professions, you are not paid by the hour, but to get the job done. that doesn't mean that you should be working all hours but, as the saying goes, "he who watches the clocks will remain one of the hands".

ShatterAlan

Ubbquittious wrote: »

A fella told me there recently about a company that had an extremely long drawn out interview process. One day he did about 6 one-to-one sessions with different people and he was also invited along for drinks after. Now at that point if I actually wanted the job I would politely decline and tell them I have a sick auntie in hospital or some such thing because I'd be after smelling a massive rat.


One might naively think they're being friendly and a really cool crowd to get along with but of course business is business and really it's just a continuation of the interview. It is extremely easy to slip up in that situation. At this stage I wouldn't even go to the Christmas party until I've been made permanent.



Anyone know of other companies who do this? or perhaps you have some drunk-interviewing experience of your own?

Never go on the piss with work mates until you are established. 6 months.

SupaCat95

dotsman wrote: »

Where are you getting the "tactics" or "plan" from? You are extremely cynical.

In team-based roles, how well you get on with everyone else is just as important as the other criteria. As I said, a decent, casual free-flowing conversation is a great way to get to know how someone will fit onto a team.

Also, your obvious lack of flexibility or dedication would say you would be a terrible fit.

P.S. In most professions, you are not paid by the hour, but to get the job done. that doesn't mean that you should be working all hours but, as the saying goes, "he who watches the clocks will remain one of the hands".

I believe in healthy boundaries. When you are at work you are at work and your time is your employers, when you are at home your time belongs to your family. Never confuse the two. How many couples have broke up over addiction to work or social media. Be in the place you are supposed to be in.

It is having a conversation under the influence of alcohol. If a police officer did the same there would be consequences. You will find that many people with addiction problems are actually very hard working people (work hard play hard). It is unfair to impose an intoxicant on person during the interview phase.

I would not say I am not hard working but if you dont have boundaries you end up in a situation where you are living in work and end up a slave to your job. I am not a fan of living and working onsite like co-working. Mental health and family life is much more important than ticking boxes. I am guessing I am not going to end up on your team?

McGinniesta

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

I did this and ended up reading the signals wrong and trying to go home with the boss. Didn't get the job.

Did you get the ride?

McGinniesta

silliussoddius wrote: »

Probably to lull them into thinking about the good environment/culture before sending them out for 12 hour days to the likes of Anglo.

I qualified late in life. I was in my 40's and I was self employed from day 1 for this very reason.

If you are going to do 12 hour days you may as well do it on your own terms and reap the rewards as appropriate.

It's a slog but you can decide who you work for and with and you can be as choosy as you wish.

By extension, if you have a certain level of experience you'll be wary about going anywhere near a pub with any prospective colleague or employer.

I was young and stupid once and had to learn that lesson the hard way. I think if you have had any kind of a life then if you are around booze then things are bound to happen.

This really depends on whether you hope to get the job and ultimately progress in the company. If your job involves you beavering away by yourself in seclusion, you could have the personality of a door knob and it wouldn’t matter. But if you are going to have to interact with clients at social events, or work with a group where it is important to get along, then they will want to check more than just what they read on a page.

Personally I see no issue with them asking, nor indeed with the applicant refusing, If the application depends on how you interact socially, both may have dodged a bullet if the applicant refuses.

PalLimerick

Go and drink water.

McGinniesta

PalLimerick wrote: »

Go and drink water.

That would be equally as uncomfortable.

McGinniesta

Dav010 wrote: »

This really depends on whether you hope to get the job and ultimately progress in the company. If your job involves you beavering away by yourself in seclusion, you could have the personality of a door knob and it wouldn’t matter. But if you are going to have to interact with clients at social events, or work with a group where it is important to get along, then they will want to check more than just what they read on a page.

Personally I see no issue with them asking, nor indeed with the applicant refusing, If the application depends on how you interact socially, both may have dodged a bullet if the applicant refuses.

I don't know about you but this hasn't always true in my experience. I've worked for some crazies in my time. Some of these people have made it to director and senior management. To say that they have "personality" would be stretching it.

Dyr

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Big4?

Stay the **** away ha ha

athlone573

I would be concerned that such an interviewing practice might be unfair to those who for various reasons (commuting arrangements, religious, medical, childcare responsibilities) may have difficulties with the consumption of alcohol or perhaps even presence on licensed premises. I would advocate an alternative approach to evaluation of relevant skills such as team interviews or presentations. At graduate level fair enough to observe interactions over a lunch or whatever but avoid the drink.

SupaCat95

athlone573 wrote: »

I would advocate an alternative approach to evaluation of relevant skills such as team interviews or presentations. At graduate level fair enough to observe interactions over a lunch or whatever but avoid the drink.

The real question is not about social events or social skills. When you are on the lash, how much do you drink, how do you behave and what secrets are you likely to spill?

Happened to my father with a visiting Swedish company. They arrived in Waterford, took the poor Irish saps out and got them 4 sheets to the wind. The real issue wasnt to return the hospitality but to pump 'em for information. The next morning the General manager and Engineer couldnt remember what happened. My father the purchasing manager saw them coming a mile off, never drank. They wanted to know how much the competition were paying.

Beware Greeks bearing gifts.

silverharp

SupaCat95 wrote: »

The real question is not about social events or social skills. When you are on the lash, how much do you drink, how do you behave and what secrets are you likely to spill?

Happened to my father with a visiting Swedish company. They arrived in Waterford, took the poor Irish saps out and got them 4 sheets to the wind. The real issue wasnt to return the hospitality but to pump 'em for information. The next morning the General manager and Engineer couldnt remember what happened. My father the purchasing manager saw them coming a mile off, never drank. They wanted to know how much the competition were paying.

Beware Greeks bearing gifts.

one to watch out there is company training, we had one session but were warned because the guy giving it essentially worked for competition

SupaCat95

I knew a guy who worked for one of the big 4 hired just out of college, you know the guy, big parish sports star and what not.
Went out to the christmas social, berated some poor night manager because he had too much to drink and couldnt remember it the next morning. I always thought he was a bit of a nasty sly individual and a penny pincher, well suited to his chosen profession. The family issues with drink, he had a predisposition to alcoholism.

Is it fair to , not force but influence a person to drink like that.

KaneToad

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

I did this and ended up reading the signals wrong and trying to go home with the boss. Didn't get the job.

Sorry. My partner was home that night...had it of been a Wednesday....

KaneToad

SupaCat95 wrote: »

I knew a guy who worked for one of the big 4 hired just out of college, you know the guy, big parish sports star and what not.
Went out to the christmas social, berated some poor night manager because he had too much to drink and couldnt remember it the next morning. I always thought he was a bit of a nasty sly individual and a penny pincher, well suited to his chosen profession. The family issues with drink, he had a predisposition to alcoholism.

Is it fair to , not force but influence a person to drink like that.

It's totally fair. He had so many options

- don't go to event
- go to event, don't drink excessively
- go to event, don't drink alcohol (*shock*)
- go to event, drink excessively but don't act like an arsehole

My sympathy would be quite low...

SupaCat95

silverharp wrote: »

.......... but were warned because the guy giving it essentially worked for competition

You mean "commercial espionage in plain sight"? Talk about sending the sheep among wolves.

Former Former Former

I think people are reading too much into these things. Like, no company is going to invite an entry-level temp out for gargles, but if you're considering hiring a guy who is going to be a key member of a team, you need to know how he's going to interact with them in real life. Lots of people can do well in interviews and turn out to be total dicks on their first day, or vice versa, you spend months looking for someone, you hire a guy and a month in he tells you "it's not a good fit".

No workplace is going to be shoving tequila slammers in front of you and probing you on your racist proclivities or if you had an abortion in college. It's just a continuation of the interview process. For my current job, I did a heap of interviews then went for dinner with the boss, learned far more in that 90 minutes than in all the previous meetings combined.

On the other hand, if someone who's trying to get hired takes full advantage of the free bar and ends up making a tit of him/herself, then you've saved yourself a lot of heartache down the line.

YFlyer

Did it with Irish Rail inspectors. Not so much of a problem. Then with Kerry Algae and the lads told JP to take one. After that, start of my PhD, after filling me with drink. They asked me technical questions.

SupaCat95

KaneToad wrote: »

It's totally fair. He had so many options

- don't go to event
- go to event, don't drink excessively
- go to event, don't drink alcohol (*shock*)
- go to event, drink excessively but don't act like an arsehole

My sympathy would be quite low...

Oh we was a total "very special individual". Dont worry about the sympathy part. I am talking about other individuals. Once the drink begins to flow where is the stopping it. I think the asshole was naturally there but the drink brought it right out in public.
I am always fascinated why people end up in catering and hospitality, minimum wage, no respect and to be treated like a dog by A**holes like him.

My wifes friend is undiagnosed Bipolar type 1, when she drinks stuff happens, bad stuff. Car accidents with her having a claim and fights and what not.
Another guy I know diagnosed Bipolar Type 2, makes an ass of himself and brings up mistreating blacks with visiting foreigners from the states and intellectually be littles other people who dont agree with him. These are people for their own good need to kept away from alcohol.

SupaCat95

YFlyer wrote: »

after filling me with drink. They asked me technical questions.

Can I ask how you dealt with that one?