Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152013#Comment_118152013

Floorpie on the other hand is perfectly qualified to decide which bits of studies to highlight and which to ignore, and of course more qualified than the study authors and peer reviewers enabling them to dismiss conclusions of studies outright

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152623#Comment_118152623

Funny thing is that I'm interpreting results as the authors present them. It's you and others that attempt to flip findings around.

decide which bits of studies to highlight and which to ignore

Anybody can agree or disagree with justification, you and others ITT have steered me right on certain points that I was wrong on

peer reviewers 

Peer review is a joke, it means next to nothing

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117278#Comment_118117278

Some doctor on radio today said that incidence may be lowering in this age group because they're essentially extreme-cocooning, in her estimation

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152495#Comment_118152495

The only way to restore normal life is to admit that the current way of life is wrong and intolerable and people no longer accept it.

Since people *do* accept and embrace shunning, avoiding others, hiding, covering their face etc. then that's what they get.

It's not a technical matter. The rationale changes literally every day, constantly rotating between different factors and groups who are 'to blame'. That's an admission of cluelessness.

growleaves

Simon Harris specifically said social distancing was only until most people were vaccinated. He said that in April 2020.

It is obvious that it is never-ending in the sense that a very low bar of cases or just anything that doesn't guarantee 100% 'safety' is all it takes.

Some real crisis like a world war could alter life enough to shake people out of it. But continuing as we are now it is not going to end.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152462#Comment_118152462

They are, and I think both Moderna and Pfizer have a Delta specific one either created or in testing.

But the original, especially with a third dose, is absolutely fine so there isn't the need REALLY to get the Delta one out. They both target the spike and the spike hasnt changed THAT much, and can't change that much without the whole virus just not working to get into cells very well.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153106#Comment_118153106

Most would have thought this but we have Delta now.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153389#Comment_118153389

There's always going to be a variant or some other detail.

Covid is not a killer plague in any of its iterations. It just isn't.

The restrictions and all the hardships that go with them are completely voluntary and chosen.

'The virus is forcing us to do [bad action]' is a lie

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153525#Comment_118153525

There were plenty of variants but it was hoped that such and infectious one wouldn't develop until we had most vaccinated here.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153106#Comment_118153106

Looking pretty sticky on the Polish / Belarussian border now atm.

Goldengirl

I think that generally hope won out over actual reality, certainly amongst the politicians . And that is what they wanted to sell to everybody , hope .

I never heard any of the doctors or immunologists talking about anything more than 'getting it under control 'and much discussion of top up boosters on an ongoing basis .

I think if we had been told last year that we would still be wearing masks , still be distancing and restricted despite vaccines because of high case numbers , it would have been too much for most of us to bear !

There needs to be an honest discussion now about our way out of this, if there is a way out of this, because the fudging is not going to get any buy in longterm from the public .

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154024#Comment_118154024

Yes, honesty really is needed now.

The vast majority of people have got the vaccine, got on board with mask wearing, given up hobbies and socialising for long spells. If a return to normal life is not sustainable or isn't likely to be, people need to be told that honestly without "we will prevail" type statements, which seem pretty hollow at this stage. If the best we can hope for is a quiet life, without crowded indoor events, let people know that, cut out the stringing them along.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154024#Comment_118154024

Totally agree an honest discussion is needed on when/how/if we get out of this. Maybe it'll be the second generation vaccines will give sterilising immunity, maybe we'll get to this notion of herd immunity before then, who knows. But there's also the possibility that there will be some things permanently changed from now on, whether it be versions of WFH/hybrid working, new ways of doing things and congregating from the really small and insignificant to potentially larger changes. I think society needs to be ready to accept that this might happen, hopefully it won't or if it does it will be to the smallest degree possible, but I think living with COVID will involved certain things being slightly different.

floorpie

Do you guys not feel any sense of foolishness given that you advocated for unvaccinated people to be restricted severely just a week ago, but have changed your mind about restrictions based on vaccination status now that it may affect you?

It's somewhat scary to see how some posters can seamlessly change their beliefs and attitudes overnight and not gain any sense of humility (especially the "we'll never have restrictions again, go to the conspiracy forum" team)

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154900#Comment_118154900

Who ?? Not sure I understand the post or if its in the wrong thread ?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154868#Comment_118154868

No one knows. We don't have crystal balls, we are often operating on best guesses. Remember when we, and most of the experts, thought this would all be over after the first lockdown? Case in point. But if the government stands up and shrugs and says they "don't know" what is going to happen next, they'll just be tossed out at the next election. They have to lead and make decisions, and at the end of the summer, with high vaccinations, etc, etc it looked as if we were over the hump. Nope, the virus once again proves how tenacious it is. Will things go on like this forever? Unlikely, so there's no point scaremongering people. Might the virus persist in some reduced or seasonal form? Possibly, but again no point scaremongering. We simply don't 100% know, and to most experts it looks like it should abate to lower levels, the only question is time.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154920#Comment_118154920

Not you specifically. I see several posters in recent pages who have flipped 180 on restrictions by vaccination status, in the last 2 days.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152462#Comment_118152462

Delta is a more efficient form of the original variant, it is just more infectious although the vaccine is effective.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154941#Comment_118154941

Fair enough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152038#Comment_118152038

So you only think people with PhD's can state facts on studies? Yet, you don't believe in peer review. You are certainly an interesting character. What is your PhD in by the way?

To clarify, I don't have a PhD but I have a MBA alongside a MPharm.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155166#Comment_118155166

So you only think people with PhD's can state facts on studies?

Didn't say that, I said 'interpret'. Anybody can read and form an opinion and people should and that's great, but it takes many years of training in research to be able to design/interpret/synthesize/review research imo. I don't think even a PhD is adequate for this but rather many years as a postdoc or professor.

Yet, you don't believe in peer review.

I believe in it, in the sense that I'm forced to participate in it, but it's not fit for purpose as it stands and means very little. All recent work on reproducibility shows how bad peer review is (or, can be, when it fails)

To clarify, I don't have a PhD but I have a MBA alongside a MPharm.

That's very admirable but my point remains that you being a pharmacist doesn't make you an authority on epidemiology. Your initial statement was "As a pharmacist, the vaccines that are the only thing keeping us out of constant lockdown" and imo you don't have the knowledge to say this, as a pharmacist. It may be true however, I don't know

What is your PhD in by the way?

Not epidemiology, and I also have no authority on any of the topics ITT

floorpie

Two interesting papers released this week:

1) From India, a promising evaluation of an inactivated sars-cov-2 vaccine, which unlike mRNA trials, sensibly evaluates asymptomatic infection via regular PCR tests.

2) A paper from Pfizer on phase 2-3 results on vaccination for 5-11 year olds is finally released. Tiny sample size, no evaluation of infection, high rates of adverse effects, and they choose to infer safety based on results from other trials. Highly dubious that this should be rolled out to 5-11 year olds. Some concerning highlights (regardless of demonstrated efficacy):

"Fever occurred in 8.3% of BNT162b2 recipients after the first or second dose. Use of an antipyretic among BNT162b2 recipients was more frequent after the second dose than after the first dose. One BNT162b2 recipient had a temperature of 40.0°C (104°F) 2 days after the second dose; antipyretics were used, and the fever resolved the next day."

"Neither myocarditis nor pericarditis was observed, a finding consistent with the low frequency of these adverse events with real-world use of BNT162b2 in other age groups." ... BUT ... "This study was also not powered to detect potential rare side effects of BNT162b2 in 5-to-11-year-olds. However, the safety of BNT162b2 observed in the study combined with widespread use of BNT162b2 in older populations should provide reassurance. Moreover, an expanded cohort of 5-to-11-year-olds is being assessed in the present study, and additional safety assessments are in progress. Further limitations are that concomitant administration of BNT162b2 with other vaccines was not assessed, and cell-mediated responses to immunization are not yet available."

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154900#Comment_118154900

Do you not feel foolish posting utter sxxx all day every day like your eugenics loving quoted article, from Richard Lynn last night?

Why anybody would discuss with someone who reads or believes that sort of offensive and crass material is beyond me!

This is a man who believes in racial inequality and white supremacy and has been completely shunned by all reputable publications and scientific peers.

Also a good education while it helps does not make some less ignorant.

Plenty of PhD nuts out there.

I will take my information from recognised experts in the field and reputable publications.

Ignore.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154941#Comment_118154941

I think people are looking at cases and getting worried when they should be looking at hospitalisations instead. No doubt the media drives the narrative this way.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155898#Comment_118155898

Do you not feel foolish posting utter sxxx all day every day like your eugenics loving quoted article, from Richard Lynn last night?

I don't know what you're talking about, sorry

I will take my information from recognised experts in the field and reputable publications.

I'm only posting publications from reputable venues (or highlighting when they're in non peer-reviewed venues)

dominatinMC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154868#Comment_118154868

Not such a sunny disposition after all 😅

Come on, does anyone really expect that the "the best we can hope for is a quiet life, without crowded indoor events"?? You do know there are plenty of countries across the world back to normal. Our closest neighbours being one. But no, there will be no mention of the UK situation in Ireland unless their cases spiral out of control (in fact they are declining...) Lots of states in the USA also getting on with things. I've said it for a long time, we will return to normal, but that will only happen when we give up on this pipe dream of elimination, and accept that Covid is here to stay. And that means accepting cases, hospitalisations, deaths, long covid, etc. Just another part of life. And if there are those that don't want a part of that, then yes, they can relish in a "quiet life, without crowded indoor events".

auspicious

"Who is running the science and technology in a democracy if the people don't know anything about it.

And the second reason I'm worried about this is that science is more than a body of knowledge, it's a way of thinking. A way of scepticaly interrogating the universe with a fine understanding of human fallibility. Uf we are not able to ask sceptical questions to interrogate those who tell us something is true, to be sceptical of those in authority, then we're up for grabs for the next charlatan political or religious who comes ambling along.

The people have to be educated and have to practice their scepticism and education, otherwise we don't run the government. The government runs us."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3aZd6aTCAkM

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155898#Comment_118155898

I think everyone knows at this stage that floorpie has their own reading of the studies with each one supporting the false narrative to stop vaccinating people. Not in the medicine industry but lectures professionals on how to read medical papers because they regularly read papers from other industries (apparently). All while making sure the mask doesn't slip around their own status (but it does come out in the odd sentence or two around vaccine safety, not sure if others notice this bit as well 😀).

It is a carefully built up persona that seems to be built on sand (or could be just a contrarian for contrarians sake).

OTOH it is good to get to that level of reading of some of the papers and realise why they are saying what they are saying rather than taking them at face value.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118156283#Comment_118156283

I think everyone knows at this stage that floorpie has their own reading of the studies with each one supporting the false narrative to stop vaccinating people.

No! I would like at-risk people to be vaccinated/boosted immediately (if they choose), you know that.

Looks like it's too late for this in the short term, judging by the numbers in the other thread

auspicious

Is this the reason why so many vaccinated are in hospital beds?

Cardiologist Dr. Richard Fleming.

I'll need a phd to understand it fully alas.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Dbfdh_lno&t=16s

Watch on YouTube. Only 6mins x2 speed.