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My dog, my garden and neighbours cat

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    #32
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    Animal behaviour?

    Dogs like to run free. Natural animal behaviour. Are they allowed to? No.

    I have perfectly good understanding of the predatory instincts of cats and dogs, however neither should be entitled to act on those instincts at the expense of protected animals.


    Yeh run free in their own secure garden and taken for regular walks, under control also. What you are talking about is totally unreasonable. What would you do, have the dog caged or kept inside all the time?


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    #33
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,339 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    If the cat is killing birds which are protected species then it is certainly a problem yes and action may need to be taken with the appropriate authorites.

    The likes of woodmice are not a protected species so there would be no issue there.

    Why are you belittling woodmice? Do they not have a right to live? What if the wood mouse is someone’s pet and it strays into a cat owner’s garden and the cat kills it? Should the cat be destroyed?


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    #34
    BobbyBolivia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭BobbyBolivia


    Deub wrote: »
    But the cat hunting protected species in other people properties is clearly under control.

    I can only go off what the OP has said about the possibility or likelihood that the dog is going to kill the neighbours cat.

    In numerous comments before your poorly timed sarcastic effort, I have expressed concern at cats attacking protected species. However as I have also said, if the cat is killing woodmice then there is no issue whatsoever.

    I have also expressed the desire for cats to have an enclosed outdoor area upon which to have safe outdoor access. This is not Irish law though.

    Another kind of similar example of how you cannot just do what you like to an 'invading protected animal' - If I have bats nesting in my attic, I cannot interfere with them. "But it's my property!" one might say. It doesn't matter a jot. You can only take measures to ensure they won't come back after they have departed the property.


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    #35
    BobbyBolivia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭BobbyBolivia


    fullstop wrote: »
    Why are you belittling woodmice? Do they not have a right to live? What if the wood mouse is someone’s pet and it strays into a cat owner’s garden and the cat kills it? Should the cat be destroyed?


    They are not a protected species or animal. It's not really that difficult.

    I have attempted to give the OP the best advice in line with the law, not aligned with many here who would just hope for there to be no consequences if the dog killed the cat.

    OP, my last comment on this issue because it is descending into farce - it will be hard to argue that the dog is not dangerous or to argue that the dog is under control if the dog is killing protected animals or species. You may be able to argue against paying any vet bills - but the neighbour could create a lot of trouble for you under the Control of Dogs Act 1986.


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    #36
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    That's an American opinion, completely inappropriate for a European situation.



    Indeed. Here in France, a cat is legally considered to be in its home territory (i.e. not straying, and the owner not subject to sanction) if it is within 1km of its registered address.



    There's another way to look at this: the full name of the breed in question is Labrador Retriever. The Retriever part is important, as these dogs were originally bred to fetch birds, rabbits and other animals that had been shot and bring them back without damaging them. Having a "soft mouth" was - and still is, for active hunters - an important part of the breed's characteristic.

    In the hunting community, a Labrador that killed a cat (or any similar-sized animal) would be considered to be a badly bred/trained dog, and not to be trusted. Unfortunately, going back to the American vet's opinion, no matter how "good and safe" he's been up till then, a dog that has rediscovered his "predator-prey" instincts may well try them out later on a child.


    Load of Baloney to use an American term.


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    #37
    Bruthal.
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Bruthal.


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    If you have proof that cats are attacking protected species then it is certainly something which needs to be addressed.

    Yea, I guess the cat will see a bird, and check his protected birds list before mistakenly going out of his owners control 2 miles from their house.


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    #38
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,339 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    They are not a protected species. It's not really that difficult.

    It is. If I had a pet wood mouse and some cat killed it I’d be really sad. But if I let my wood mouse wander into someone else’s property, maybe I’d be to blame...


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    #39
    BobbyBolivia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭BobbyBolivia


    fullstop wrote: »
    It is. If I had a pet wood mouse and some cat killed it I’d be really sad. But if I let my wood mouse wander into someone else’s property, maybe I’d be to blame...


    They are not a listed protected species.


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    #40
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭wench


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    If the cat is killing birds which are protected species then it is certainly a problem yes and action may need to be taken with the appropriate authorites.
    Can you point us to any reports of such action being taken?


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    #41
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    wench wrote: »
    Can you point us to any reports of such action being taken?

    Yes, his/her posting has little to do with reality.


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    #42
    ZX7R
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    The dog is clearly not under control if it is potentially killing protected animals.

    Cats are adored the same protection as any other pets under Irish law, the onus is on the cat owner to provide protection of the cat.
    If the cat wanders onto the neighbour's garden and gets killed by there dogs, that is the cat owners responsibly.
    I believe some on here are mixing up protected species laws with animal protection laws


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    #43
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭daheff


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    But the dogs are in a secure location and under control, the cat is entering the dogs territory.

    Not under control if it kills the cat.


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    #44
    Man Vs ManUre
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Man Vs ManUre


    Don’t f#*k with cats.


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    #45
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,045 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    Indeed. Here in France, a cat is legally considered to be in its home territory (i.e. not straying, and the owner not subject to sanction) if it is within 1km of its registered address.

    Not subject to sanction for its own actions is one thing, sure - but are you really saying that in France if a cat wanders into a neighbouring garden which has a dog in it (securely fenced in) and the dog attacks the cat, that the dog owners would be responsible for the cat being hurt?


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    #46
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,045 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    ZX7R wrote: »
    Cats are adored the same protection as any other pets under Irish law, the onus is on the cat owner to provide protection of the cat.
    If the cat wanders onto the neighbour's garden and gets killed by there dogs, that is the cat owners responsibly.
    I believe some on here are mixing up protected species laws with animal protection laws

    This makes more sense. I notice the poster who says the cat has the right to go wherever it wants hasn't given any evidence in the form of links to actual laws or court cases.


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    #47
    Bruthal.
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Bruthal.


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    They are not a listed protected species.

    What if the cat is about to kill a protected bird, and the neighbour's dog kills the cat, saving the bird?


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    #48
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,449 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    Hey it's my own garden and the dog can do what he likes there! This line of reasoning is absolute nonsense.

    If the dog kills the cat then I don't see how it justifiably won't be classed as dangerous by a warden or judge if needed be.

    If the dog somehow managed to get hold of a bat that went onto the property it would be the exact same thing. Or a red squirrel, or a brown or mountain hare. Just because the dog is on your property and another animal enters the property doesn't mean a bloody thing. All of those are protected or endangered species and if I saw a dog killing one of them then the warden would be contacted.

    Read.my post again, I agree with you, if the cat gets injured/killed the blame is not yours or the dogs.


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    #49
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,449 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    The dog is clearly not under control if it is potentially killing protected animals.

    Would you feel the same.if the dog bit a burglar?


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    #50
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    Bruthal. wrote: »
    What if the cat is about to kill a protected bird, and the neighbour's dog kills the cat, saving the bird?

    :D:D


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    #51
    Sparkey84
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Sparkey84


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    The dog is clearly not under control if it is potentially killing protected animals.

    would the cat be labelled out of control for killing a mouse?

    i see that question already raised.


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    #52
    Call me Al
    Registered Users Posts: 3,022 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    They are not a protected species or animal. It's not really that difficult.

    I have attempted to give the OP the best advice in line with the law, not aligned with many here who would just hope for there to be no consequences if the dog killed the cat.

    OP, my last comment on this issue because it is descending into farce - it will be hard to argue that the dog is not dangerous or to argue that the dog is under control if the dog is killing protected animals or species. You may be able to argue against paying any vet bills - but the neighbour could create a lot of trouble for you under the Control of Dogs Act 1986.

    They are a protected species insofar as the owner has a legal duty of care to them. The cat owner's neighbour has zero responsibility to care for the neighbour's cat.
    The poster has a duty of care to his dogs. They're well taken care of and confined to his own garden.
    A few more close calls like this and the neighbour's cat will soon learn where he stands in the pecking order. I wouldn't expect there will be too many more incursions.


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    #53
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    BobbyBolivia wrote: »
    Hey it's my own garden and the dog can do what he likes there! This line of reasoning is absolute nonsense.

    If the dog kills the cat then I don't see how it justifiably won't be classed as dangerous by a warden or judge if needed be.

    If the dog somehow managed to get hold of a bat that went onto the property it would be the exact same thing. Or a red squirrel, or a brown or mountain hare. Just because the dog is on your property and another animal enters the property doesn't mean a bloody thing. All of those are protected or endangered species and if I saw a dog killing one of them then the warden would be contacted.

    You sound like a bit of ...... naah. I’ll leave it.

    Dog in it’s owners garden, secure and not able to escape. If a protected animal enters the property and is hurt then sorry, but that’s nature

    If the protected animal is in the wild and attacked by a fox do you report the fox to the warden!?

    You’re talking total twaddle


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    #54
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,736 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Not subject to sanction for its own actions is one thing, sure - but are you really saying that in France if a cat wanders into a neighbouring garden which has a dog in it (securely fenced in) and the dog attacks the cat, that the dog owners would be responsible for the cat being hurt?

    The point being made was that there are different rules for different jurisdictions. The rules relating to dog biting humans are considerably stricter in France, compared to Ireland, for example. So there's no point in me arguing the rights and wrongs of what a French dog can do to a French cat, and - for the purposes of this thread - there is no point in someone picking a random American opinion about dogs in general and trying to apply it to a specific situation in Ireland.


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    #55
    Sparkey84
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Sparkey84


    to the op, i had a very similar situation over 20 years ago my family pet was a jack russel and next door lived a cat. the cat would do two problematic thing

    1 come into garden almost appeared to be for the fun of the chase.

    2 he would walk over and back the boundary wall at 3am just to annoy the dog and make him bark. not all cats are assh0!es but that particular one most certainly was.

    we recieved a phone call at 3am one night from the neighbour complaining about the barking when he realised the root cause of the barking he was very apologetic and made efforts to control the cat

    the discussion was had about the cat coming in, nobody was wanting to see the cat get hurt but if that happened all party's involved were of the opinion the cat would be to blame.


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    #56
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭whippet


    To the op … you’ll be grand .. first of all highly unlikely that a Lab would manage to catch a healthy cat .. but if he did manage to kill the neighbours cat … well you wanted them of the need to control their cat and you can just throw it back over the hedge.

    I’ve three dogs and the odd cat may stray in to the garden but rarely will you see them more than a hand full of times … they quickly learn


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    #57
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    If the dog kills the cat, get rid of the remains, don't go telling the neighbours, their fault for letting the cat roam free after you warning them, if the dog injures the cat deny all responsibility and tell them your dogs were indoors at the time, theres only so much you can do and their cat is their responsibility


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    #58
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,339 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    Bruthal. wrote: »
    What if the cat is about to kill a protected bird, and the neighbour's dog kills the cat, saving the bird?

    Give that dog a medal and a big bowl of Pedigree Chum.

    And a belly rub.


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    #59
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,494 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Buddy Bubs wrote: »
    They're a nice couple with a young kid so they're not unapproachable or anything but their reaction was that I shouldn't have dogs that are capable of killing a cat. And they'd look for medical expenses and any other kind of compensation of anything happened.

    After this encounter it’s time to stop dealing with them. You have done your part. If anything happens just deny it, they deserve no better.


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    #60
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,449 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    daheff wrote: »
    Not under control if it kills the cat.

    The dog is under control, the cat is the one not under control as it is entering the dogs territory which it will be entitled to protect


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    #61
    Man Vs ManUre
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Man Vs ManUre


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    If the dog kills the cat, get rid of the remains, don't go telling the neighbours, their fault for letting the cat roam free after you warning them, if the dog injures the cat deny all responsibility and tell them your dogs were indoors at the time, theres only so much you can do and their cat is their responsibility

    Then the dog will be up for murder or at least manslaughter, and the owners will be up for disposing of a body and interfering with a crime. If I was the owners I would be letting the dog face up to his actions on this one.
    If an injured cat comes home then forensics team will certainly prove the dogs teeth marks or even dna presence on cat.


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