Is it fair to blame the Banks & Government if you cant get mortgage approval?

There’s always someone on a thread on expensive housing in Irish cities who has bought a house in the backends of Leitrim or somewhere and that anecdote proves that housing is available to all. Also it’s generally years ago as if the concept of continually rising prices were beyond them.

eviltwin

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I'm just saying what I did. Obviously you can't do that if you have no parents. Most parents would be happy to help their children get ahead in life. I also saved while I was renting. I moved back home to get me over the finish line.

Well aren’t you lucky? Be grateful for the privilege and the advantage it gave you and don’t run down people who have had to do it alone.

Antares35

SnuggyBear wrote: »

You moved home to buy a house and your having a go at me for doing it?

This whole thread has proved the ops point. Plenty of salty people having a go at me for saving and buying a house in a location I could afford.
Taking the piss out of my salary and for moving back home to save more money. I feel no shame for moving back home and no one should if that's what it takes.

Whatever, people can carry on complaining they can't buy a house when they won't do whatever is needed to buy a house.

Where did I say I moved home to buy a house? Did you miss the part where I said I pay rent? I've also rented privately over the last decade and helped my parents out with their mortgage repayments, while paying for college fees so that I could upskill and essentially double my wages over the last two years. I didn't have to move home to do any of that.

I'm not having a go at you, but you're the one behaving as if leeching rent free off your parents is some kind of achievement, and judging others who cannot or will not do the same.

SnuggyBear

Antares35 wrote: »

Where did I say I moved home to buy a house? Did you miss the part where I said I pay rent? I've also rented privately over the last decade and helped my parents out with their mortgage repayments, while paying for college fees so that I could upskill and essentially double my wages over the last two years. I didn't have to move home to do any of that.

I'm not having a go at you, but you're the one behaving as if leeching rent free off your parents is some kind of achievement, and judging others who cannot or will not do the same.

Where did I say I didn't pay rent. I paid my way. I also paid rent for years away from home. Buying my house is an achievement, I'm proud of it.

Also I'm pretty sure I remember you saying you moved back home so you could buy a house on a different thread. Maybe a different poster.

handlemaster

Padre_Pio wrote: »

This is the problem.

Has there been a single government policy that reduced the list price of a house?
There's plenty of grants and tax schemes to reclaim money (if you meet the means test) but property prices are going up and up and nothing is being done about it.



A victim of the housing crisis?

Each generation says the same. This is nothing new. When you get to a certain age and want to buy its like the real world opens your eyes. People have and always will need to work and save to buy a home. Salaries are not the sames as the eighties. Interest rates. Car prices etc.

Antares35

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Where did I say I didn't pay rent.

Maybe the part where you said you earned 24k and saved 80percent of it.

By all means be proud of buying a house - it isn't an easy thing to do, which I believe is the focal point of the thread. But maybe stop sh*tting on others who didn't make the same choices you did.

Diemos

Antares35 wrote: »

Maybe the part where you said you earned 24k and saved 80percent of it.

By all means be proud of buying a house - it isn't an easy thing to do, which I believe is the focal point of the thread. But maybe stop sh*tting on others who didn't make the same choices you did.

I could be wrong, but he may not be sh!tting on them because they didn't make the same decisions that he made, but because they didn't make those sacrifices, they can't get on his level and piss and moan about the 'unfairness' of it all.

mohawk

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I never said I was on minimum wage. I was on 24k. I'm on 30k now if you must know. My point was that if you really want to buy a house you can if you save hard enough. I'm done explaining myself now to be honest. I'll be asked for my eircode next.

Look fair play to you. Some people have jobs that means a small town isn’t going to provide employment. A big commute costs money. Many people just can’t move back in with parents. Most people who do move home still pay rent to their parents.
You obviously take great pride in saving 80% of your wages. However, you don’t take into account that that it impossible for most people to save that proportion of their income because they are paying rent, groceries, bins, gas/electricity, broadband, transportation, phone. You also need to replace clothes and underwear periodically. Then of course there is the stuff like the doctor or the dentist. If you need a car to commute you could get a hefty mechanics bill.

I have only mentioned the necessities above. No mention of hobbies or the odd get together with friends. I can easily see why so many are struggling to afford a home. You were in a really privileged position when you were living at home compared to many others.

Donald Trump

SnuggyBear wrote: »

OK grand, enjoy renting for the rest of your life.

Why would I ever be renting? I don't even have a mortgage that I have to worry about losing my house if I don't pay it off. No debts at all or risk of any form of repossession. I'm also not the one giving the poor mouth about earning 24k a year. Good luck with your repayments over the next 25-30 years!

SnuggyBear

mohawk wrote: »

Look fair play to you. Some people have jobs that means a small town isn’t going to provide employment. A big commute costs money. Many people just can’t move back in with parents. Most people who do move home still pay rent to their parents.
You obviously take great pride in saving 80% of your wages. However, you don’t take into account that that it impossible for most people to save that proportion of their income because they are paying rent, groceries, bins, gas/electricity, broadband, transportation, phone. You also need to replace clothes and underwear periodically. Then of course there is the stuff like the doctor or the dentist. If you need a car to commute you could get a hefty mechanics bill.

I have only mentioned the necessities above. No mention of hobbies or the odd get together with friends. I can easily see why so many are struggling to afford a home. You were in a really privileged position when you were living at home compared to many others.

You just missed the part where I said I was renting and saving for years. I moved back home for 2 years to get over the line. I own a car and have all the life expenses you listed.I even had to take out 3k on a credit card to pay the solicitor fees.

SnuggyBear

Donald Trump wrote: »

Why would I ever be renting? I don't even have a mortgage that I have to worry about losing my house if I don't pay it off. No debts at all or risk of any form of repossession. I'm also not the one giving the poor mouth about earning 24k a year. Good luck with your repayments over the next 25-30 years!

I'm not sure what your point is anymore. Do you want a mortgage? If not why were you complaining about not being able to get one? Show me a post where I gave the poor mouth about my salary? I will have my mortgage paid off in 15 years.

Jizique

Geuze wrote: »

Yes.

Why does the State make the same mistake over and over, by adding to demand?

FTB grants
Help-to-Buy
planned shared equity scheme


They never seem to want to boost supply.

HAP is a huge issue, landlords dole putting a floor under prices.
If prices were allowed to find a true lower level, people would be happier to rent but every policy is devised to push up prices.
The Irish grá for supporting landlords, given our history, never ceases to amaze me.
The number of landlords in our parliament is testament to the policies they favor.

gogo

I haven’t read all the posts so this may have been covered.. I’m a second time buyer trying to size up for our expanded family.
If there was some incentive for second time buyers in place it would free up a lot of affordable starter homes, that are held by squeezed families across the country.

We bought at the height of it, house dropped by 100k overnight in 2006. We have 16 yrs track record of mortgage holding & 20+ years of stable employment history. We have the affordability. Property starts at approx 300k where I live, that means I’ve to have a 60k deposit plus stamp & legals to even get into making a first offer. That’s a fair chunk of savings. The market is stagnant.. every segment is fecked, not just first time buyers. A first time buyer can get 30k from the enhanced Help to Buy scheme and therefore has there full deposit needed at 10% of the purchase price. But in general repays on 270k can be on the high side for an average earner FTB.. so they don’t progress, no one wins here.
I can apply for an exception on LTV but have to have a house first.. and then no guarantee that an exception will be given.
I don’t particularly want a 90% mortgage, but I also don’t want to compete with buyers who are given 30k from the government before their savings either, not a fair playing field. I saved my deposit back in the day, now I have to go save twice that.
and yes I understand I have a house etc etc .. trading up though is nothing new.

Donald Trump

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is anymore. Do you want a mortgage? If not why were you complaining about not being able to get one? Show me a post where I gave the poor mouth about my salary? I will have my mortgage paid off in 15 years.

You are imaging things dude. I never complained about not being able to get a mortgage myself. I wouldn't need one if I wanted to enter the market for buying houses at the minute anyway but that is beside the point.

SnuggyBear

Fair enough some very cryptic posting. Not renting and not buying.

SnuggyBear

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Ye you have it right. I saved all my life and put it with the 3.5 mortgage and I bought a house.

Can I ask what the purchase price of the house was, and the general area?

It's all relative, of course. Personally, some people wouldn't be happy outside of Dublin and will spend hundreds of thousands more to stay there.


Personally, I live in Drogheda, and although there are cheaper options (Cavan, Leitrim, etc.) I find that once you're anywhere near any kind of town, services, etc. the prices aren't different/cheaper enough to justify moving.


I just seen a house listed in Ballyjamesduff in Cavan at 175k (4 bed semi). Not the best area in the world, but i rang about it, figuring I might get away with cheekily offering less than asking, but was told it was already sale agreed "well in excess of the asking price" (I didn't get an actual figure from them).


It seems property prices are just gone mad at the moment, altogether.


For what it's worth, I make 40k-ish and 180-200k would generally get you a decent house in Drogheda. Lately, these houses are going for 250k. It's mental, but a lot of it is because of the 25 year council lease option.


Smaller investors in Dublin are buying up anything cheap-ish at all, and entering into these 25 year leases. They just offer a lump more money on a house and feck everyone else (which is understandable for them to do as they're a business after all), but it makes life very tough when a working person making a respectable income can't even afford a second hand 1980s ex-council house in need of renovating.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Good luck with your repayments over the next 25-30 years!

Why exactly are you posting on a mortgage thread if all you're doing is giving out about them?

Donald Trump

Deleted User wrote: »

Why exactly are you posting on a mortgage thread if all you're doing is giving out about them?

What am I giving out about? Mortgages?

I was responding to someone who accused me of "playing the victim" and sneered "enjoy renting for the rest of your life". I was only putting them straight that I was neither looking for a mortgage, have an outstanding one, nor would I need one if I wanted to enter the housing market.


Anyone can do what you are trying to do in accusing someone of doing something they didn't do and then try to admonish them to gain internet points. I don't see the point but sure here let me try - "sure what exactly are you doing on a housing thread if all you are doing is moaning about first time buyers getting grants".


By the way, I don't see "moderator" in your signature! So I'll continue to post on the state of the market and who is responsible for various aspects.

Jinglejangle69

starkid wrote: »

you forgot avacado toast...

The issue is now even doctors and other professionals can't afford housing.

Its gone way beyond your point.

Link to doctors?

thomas 123

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Ye you can do that and buy a house or you can carry on complaining.

You can move back into your parents house, bust your balls saving for a mortgage many multiples of your yearly salary and pay it off into your golden years yeah?

Just getting the mortgage is not the only part of this problem - yet your best suggestion is shack up with mam and dad.

Wanderer78

It's clearly obvious now, the mere existence of avocado's are threatening the human race, and should be banned!

SnuggyBear

thomas 123 wrote: »

You can move back into your parents house, bust your balls saving for a mortgage many multiples of your yearly salary and pay it off into your golden years yeah?

Just getting the mortgage is not the only part of this problem - yet your best suggestion is shack up with mam and dad.

Can I ask you do you want to own a house? I'm not sure what people actually want on this thread. Do you want to own a house or rent for the rest of your life? Those are your options.

Senior

[PHP][/PHP]

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Can I ask you do you want to own a house? I'm not sure what people actually want on this thread. Do you want to own a house or rent for the rest of your life? Those are your options.

Why can't you see it is not the straight forward for a generation who currently live/work in Dublin?

Faugheen

The only reason I could afford my home is because I came into money.

If that didn't happen, I'd still be renting right now and would have no hope of being able to afford a deposit or get a big enough mortgage for the house I'm in now.

Let's make no mistake either, the house I'm in isn't a mansion or anything. It's in a Dublin suburb and is your standard run-of-the-mill home. It's nothing special. My income isn't spectacular by any means, nor is my partner's. We needed a lot of luck and we're one in a million who will probably get that luck.

Anyone who thinks young people not being able to afford a house is because of their behaviour is so badly misinformed it's unreal.

SnuggyBear

Senior wrote: »

[PHP][/PHP]

Why can't you see it is not the straight forward for a generation who currently live/work in Dublin?

Sure but why am I being blasted for "busting my balls" to get a house and made out like it's a burden for the rest of my life? The op has just proved his point imo.
You can't expect to own a house in the capital city easily. You have the option of moving to a location you can afford or you can rent in Dublin. Can't have it all.

Believe it or not I plan to buy a second house lol

Pussyhands

L1011 wrote: »

My parents bought a new 4 bed semi D on a commuter rail line from Dublin for a tad over 3x the median single salary in 1986.

The equivalent now - a new, smaller albeit better insulated house on a smaller site in the same town would be closer to 10x a median single salary.

Sure, interest rates were higher but that doesn't even vaguely cancel out the affordability difference. And your average 1980s buyers probably drank like fish and smoked like chimneys based on average consumption of each in Ireland back then; which have both fallen significantly - that's why there was no money for holidays and the like.

Can we please stop coming out with stuff like this? It's completely wrong to suggest everyone in the 80's had an easy time of it.

I am 30, I have approval for a mortgage, I am single.

- If it was sooo easy for everyone in the 80's to buy, why was the number of social houses built in the 80's the same as up to 2008?

- If the 1980's were soo easy for everyone and any auld fool could buy a house, why was emigration so high?

- The "commuter belt" you think of today wasn't the same one of old. The transport options are better, the roads are better, the jobs in the city are better and pay way higher, the options for entertainment in the city are better. More people want to live in Dublin than previously did, we have massive immigration numbers.

- "my dad was a teacher and could afford a house"...Once again, **** all people went to college back then. If you're saying your dad had a job like a teacher, then you are in fact privileged. A teacher was a big shot job back then.

I'm fed up with the constant talk about how easy it was for our parents. If it was easy for your parents, they were one of the well off people. My parents moved in with my grandparents. I grew up in a tiny 3 bed house with 9 people. I earn 50k, I have a 50k deposit and my mother hasn't got 4k to buy a new car as her current one is bollixed.

As for today's generation, yes they waste money. They go abroad multiple times a year, buy iPhones etc and they think they should be entitled to a house. As I said, I earn 50k, I rent and I save approx 22k a year. Hearing 26 year olds say they are single and complaining they can't buy a 4 bed semi D smells of entitlement. People won't like to hear it, but there's a lot of young people out there doing well that are buying.

I even heard a 40 something complaining they can't buy....if they couldn't buy up to 2013 then you were doing something wrong. I heard a fella on Claire Byrne last week living in laois saying he couldn't buy. Here's a 1 bed in laois for 90k. If you can't buy something like this, you're doing something wrong. https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-7-8-old-mill-portlaoise-co-laois/3225260

I myself probably won't even buy even though I could because prices are overpriced in my opinion.

I even took the time yesterday to list out the major costs I have. My rent in the city (I house share by the way) is probably cheap compared to some people but even if I spent an extra 2k on rent I'd still save 20k a year.

I don't waste money on rubbish. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

Antares35

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Sure but why am I being blasted for "busting my balls" to get a house and made out like it's a burden for the rest of my life? The op has just proved his point imo.
You can't expect to own a house in the capital city easily. You have the option of moving to a location you can afford or you can rent in Dublin. Can't have it all.

Believe it or not I plan to buy a second house lol

Did you not say "if I can buy a house anyone can"? Or words to that effect?

Antares35

Pussyhands wrote: »

I don't waste money on rubbish. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

50k before or after tax if you don't mind me asking?

I agree with you re previous generations, some good points.

Pussyhands

Antares35 wrote: »

50k before or after tax if you don't mind me asking?

I agree with you re previous generations, some good points.

50k before tax. I take home just under 3k a month and that includes a 5% pension I pay into.

Antares35

Pussyhands wrote: »

50k before tax. I take home just under 3k a month and that includes a 5% pension I pay into.

Wow that's really impressive, fair play.

jimmycrackcorm

Jizique wrote:

HAP is a huge issue, landlords dole putting a floor under prices. If prices were allowed to find a true lower level, people would be happier to rent but every policy is devised to push up prices. The Irish grá for supporting landlords, given our history, never ceases to amaze me. The number of landlords in our parliament is testament to the policies they favor.

What sort of nonsense is this? If there were no landlords then where would people live before they choose be in a position to buy their own property.

As for our history, you should actually know what it is. It's nothing compared to now.

Landlords aren't they problem. We're not building enough houses and those that are are too expensive for many reasons. That's of course when house builds get past the planning objections of Irish people and the representatives of all the political parties

SnuggyBear

Antares35 wrote: »

Did you not say "if I can buy a house anyone can"? Or words to that effect?

Yep. They have the option to move home and save like you did. They can save like the poster above. They can buy a house in a location they can afford. They can also piss their money away and moan that the world is out to get them.

Antares35

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Yep. They have the option to move home

Can you not accept that this is not an option for everyone?

tom1ie

Has the cost of building a house been brought into question here?
When you add in the fact builders are building 100's of houses at a time as opposed to one offs (economy of scale) has anyone challenged the CIF on the cost of building a house?
How much of the cost of a new build is down to materials? Land cost? VAT? Profit?

SnuggyBear

Antares35 wrote: »

Can you not accept that this is not an option for everyone?

Can you not accept that is an option for a lot of people? One of many options. Not only is it an option but its the norm.

https://www.thejournal.ie/young-people-living-at-home-5012911-Feb2020/

I know many people at work pushing 30 still living at home. Some don't even drive nevermind save for a mortgage.

Pussyhands

Pussyhands wrote: »

Can we please stop coming out with stuff like this? It's completely wrong to suggest everyone in the 80's had an easy time of it.

I am 30, I have approval for a mortgage, I am single.

- If it was sooo easy for everyone in the 80's to buy, why was the number of social houses built in the 80's the same as up to 2008?

- If the 1980's were soo easy for everyone and any auld fool could buy a house, why was emigration so high?

- The "commuter belt" you think of today wasn't the same one of old. The transport options are better, the roads are better, the jobs in the city are better and pay way higher, the options for entertainment in the city are better. More people want to live in Dublin than previously did, we have massive immigration numbers.

- "my dad was a teacher and could afford a house"...Once again, **** all people went to college back then. If you're saying your dad had a job like a teacher, then you are in fact privileged. A teacher was a big shot job back then.

I'm fed up with the constant talk about how easy it was for our parents. If it was easy for your parents, they were one of the well off people. My parents moved in with my grandparents. I grew up in a tiny 3 bed house with 9 people. I earn 50k, I have a 50k deposit and my mother hasn't got 4k to buy a new car as her current one is bollixed.

As for today's generation, yes they waste money. They go abroad multiple times a year, buy iPhones etc and they think they should be entitled to a house. As I said, I earn 50k, I rent and I save approx 22k a year. Hearing 26 year olds say they are single and complaining they can't buy a 4 bed semi D smells of entitlement. People won't like to hear it, but there's a lot of young people out there doing well that are buying.

I even heard a 40 something complaining they can't buy....if they couldn't buy up to 2013 then you were doing something wrong. I heard a fella on Claire Byrne last week living in laois saying he couldn't buy. Here's a 1 bed in laois for 90k. If you can't buy something like this, you're doing something wrong. https://w++.
.
ww.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-7-8-old-mill-portlaoise-co-laois/3225260

I myself probably won't even buy even though I could because prices are overpriced in my opinion.

I even took the time yesterday to list out the major costs I have. My rent in the city (I house share by the way) is probably cheap compared to some people but even if I spent an extra 2k on rent I'd still save 20k a year.

I don't waste money on rubbish. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

The whole 'Ireland had high unemployment and emigration' doesnt stack up as the reason it was 3x a single income in the past. 3x a single income was normal across alot of the western world.

Fact is we work twice as hard to get a house as two people are now working. Lots of other things are cheaper but it doesnt offset the cost

Wanderer78

Having a fire sector (finance, insurance and real estate) lead economy clearly doesn't work, its time for us to grow up and accept this fact, it obviously does great damage to property markets!

smurgen

When the government is intervening in the market in a way which pushes up prices meaning bigger mortgage applications it's fair to conclude that they are a reason for some people not getting approval. For example ;

https://twitter.com/killianwoods/status/1393681423714955267?s=19

Wanderer78

smurgen wrote:

When the government is intervening in the market in a way which pushes up prices meaning bigger mortgage applications it's fair to conclude that they are a reason for some people not getting approval. For example ;

Yup, our polical institutions have also been infected with this nonsense, and are adding to the problem, it's a fine mess now, and will probably get much worse

Antares35

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Can you not accept that is an option for a lot of people? One of many options. Not only is it an option but its the norm.

https://www.thejournal.ie/young-people-living-at-home-5012911-Feb2020/

I know many people at work pushing 30 still living at home. Some don't even drive nevermind save for a mortgage.

Yes I can, but unlike you I'm not so ignorant to state that what's viable for some or many is viable for all.

SnuggyBear

Antares35 wrote: »

Yes I can, but unlike you I'm not so ignorant to state that what's viable for some or many is viable for all.

OK let's agree it's an option for some people. Let's presume that option wasn't available to me and I stayed renting and saving. I would have still bought a house it would have just taken longer.

smurgen

SnuggyBear wrote: »

OK let's agree it's an option for some people. Let's presume that option wasn't available to me and I stayed renting and saving. I would have still bought a house it would have just taken longer.

With stuff like this going on you could be saving indefinitely.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1393835602563457024?s=19

Antares35

SnuggyBear wrote: »

OK let's agree it's an option for some people.

Thank you for accepting that what's good for you isn't necessarily good for others.

SnuggyBear

smurgen wrote: »

With stuff like this going on you could be saving indefinitely.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1393835602563457024?s=19

Ye this is messed up and I'll admit it's a mess now with covid. I'm talking from my experience 3 years ago. People had the same complaints then though and I bought a house on a low salary. When I went to the bank they were in awe at my saving record.

I'm planning now to buy a second house. I'm not complaining about how hard it is going be. I'm just going to get on with it. Maybe I'll dig this thread up when I buy it in 10 years or whatever.

is_that_so

smurgen wrote: »

With stuff like this going on you could be saving indefinitely.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1393835602563457024?s=19

The two may not be connected at all. Ball dropping of the highest order allowing them to secure the properties but without seeing the nature of that investment from a paywalled article that link is not obvious.

is_that_so

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Ye this is messed up and I'll admit it's a mess now with covid. I'm talking from my experience 3 years ago. People had the same complaints then though and I bought a house on a low salary. When I went to the bank they were in awe at my saving record.

I'm planning now to buy a second house. I'm not complaining about how hard it is going be. I'm just going to get on with it. Maybe I'll dig this thread up when I buy it in 10 years or whatever.

When some people begin to consider property or other life decisions they seem surprised that to get to certain points in life you need to align your plans in that direction over a period of time. Property buying has never been easy and it's made twice as hard by the media stoking the no-hope lost generation claims. Most people l know did not start in their ideal place but over time managed to work themselves towards somewhere that suited them.

As for the saving side, yes it can be done but not by continuing to do everything else in your life you enjoy. Heard of people recently who've saved €10K+ due to COVID layoffs. Having your own funds is part of that solution.

Cal4567

smurgen wrote: »

With stuff like this going on you could be saving indefinitely.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1393835602563457024?s=19

Yes, Urbeo, yet another vehicle spawned from the property finance world, with its mix of ex NAMA and Big Four accountancy firms types, although its no harm to have a Savills/Cushman & Wakefield back story either.

At some point we will have a join the dots moment which will probably start off with Haughey/Dermot Desmond, the IFSC, the Celtic Tiger and then leading through the crash, the Troika/NAMA and how events have unfolded since detailing who has benefited from all this and who are its victims.

It looks like it is all beginning to unravel though and we might just get some good old fashioned people power and policies that just might be for the common good.

Cerveza

People with pcp shouldn’t apply anyway.

is_that_so

Cal4567 wrote: »

Yes, Urbeo, yet another vehicle spawned from the property finance world, with its mix of ex NAMA and Big Four accountancy firms types, although its no harm to have a Savills/Cushman & Wakefield back story either.

At some point we will have a join the dots moment which will probably start off with Haughey/Dermot Desmond, the IFSC, the Celtic Tiger and then leading through the crash, the Troika/NAMA and how events have unfolded since detailing who has benefited from all this and who are its victims.

It looks like it is all beginning to unravel though and we might just get some good old fashioned people power and policies that just might be for the common good.

Those dots will just be a squiggle!

Cal4567

Cal4567 wrote: »

Yes, Urbeo, yet another vehicle spawned from the property finance world, with its mix of ex NAMA and Big Four accountancy firms types, although its no harm to have a Savills/Cushman & Wakefield back story either.

At some point we will have a join the dots moment which will probably start off with Haughey/Dermot Desmond, the IFSC, the Celtic Tiger and then leading through the crash, the Troika/NAMA and how events have unfolded since detailing who has benefited from all this and who are its victims.

It looks like it is all beginning to unravel though and we might just get some good old fashioned people power and policies that just might be for the common good.

A quarter of tds are landlords and others have interests in property, not going to happen.