Is it fair to blame the Banks & Government if you cant get mortgage approval?

I see sheep

Why do some people still pretend housing is not a massive massive problem

They'll know after the next election, I can tell you that for sure.

magicbastarder

would be curious at what point - and for how long - in the last 40 years, the irish housing market has been healthy. i.e. price rises not vastly outstripping inflation, or falling at the same rate, or sensible interest rates being available? maybe for about ten years of the last 40 or so?

Padre_Pio

gmisk wrote: »

Jesus that is even worse than I thought it would be!
An absolute disaster why the hell have FF/FG done nothing?!?

FF/FG created this situation on purpose back in 2011 to stimulate the housing market.

The problem is that it runs unchecked for over a decade.

magicbastarder

they wanted large foreign agencies to come in and stimulate the market, so rental income had to be attractive to entice them.
the problem is that what suits foreign investors and what suits the irish public have been demonstrated to be at odds.

Varik

Varik wrote: »

Councils are the ones handing out the 20 year deals for these properties.

25 years. And that's an important difference.


At 20 years the investment fund would have to pay the LPT. But at over 20 years, it becomes the Council's job to pay it. Hence 25 years being the default lease.

ELM327

I see sheep wrote: »

Why do some people still pretend housing is not a massive massive problem

They'll know after the next election, I can tell you that for sure.

There is not a housing problem.
There's an "I want a subsidized/social house in the city" crisis.

Donald Trump

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Yes and the house prices went up as I was saving too. You know what I did? I kept saving.
Meanwhile I'm looking at people going into their 30s still living at home with not a penny to their name cos they pissed it all away. Working for over 10 years and nothing to show for it.

It just goes to show how easy it was for people back in the day - a person who was only earning 24k could buy a house on their own!


Basically winning the lottery by being born at the right time

I see sheep

ELM327 wrote: »

There is not a housing problem.
There's an "I want a subsidized/social house in the city" crisis.

Yeah keep telling yourself that, good man.

As long as you're doing alright you're happy enough I'd say.

irelandpride

Donald Trump wrote: »

It just goes to show how easy it was for people back in the day - a person who was only earning 24k could buy a house on their own!


Basically winning the lottery by being born at the right time

84,000 off the banks. Get ya some gaff in Dublin haha.

irelandpride

ELM327 wrote: »

There is not a housing problem.
There's an "I want a subsidized/social house in the city" crisis.

So want can someone in Dublin City buy earning 50K a year, just curious?

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

That's not the actual issue either. The root issue is uncontrolled population growth. but nobody is willing to bother doing anything about that so...

Nah we have to pretend that it's not an issue. For some reason.

notAMember wrote: »

While I do think it's completely nuts that funds are buying so many properties, I also know some people are using their private pensions to buy property, and rent it to their children. That's a "thing" if you're in your 50's or 60's at the moment. A kind of inheritance tax avoidance mechanism.

So the numbers might be skewed there , depending on what investment funds mean.

If you use your pension lump-sum to buy it then you're buying it. It's not an investment fund buying it.

RulesOfNature

RulesOfNature wrote: »

The central bank has stated in its plans and in no uncertain terms that it wants to lessen homeownership in Ireland and increase renting. The government is literally the architect of this ‘crisis’ . Its their plan, because according to the central bank renters are more productive.

And it’ll be some craic when we get to pension age and can’t afford the rent.

SnuggyBear

thomas 123 wrote: »

Good thing you had parents with the space for you. The struggle must have been real living off the tit for all those years.

Is your suggestion that all young people move back on with their parents if they have them?

Ye you can do that and buy a house or you can carry on complaining.

SnuggyBear

Donald Trump wrote: »

It just goes to show how easy it was for people back in the day - a person who was only earning 24k could buy a house on their own!


Basically winning the lottery by being born at the right time

I bought the house 3 years ago. Nice job playing the victim though.

handlemaster

fvp4 wrote: »

Yes if they all, everyone of them, did that - you’d still be wrong.

But the reasons why they can’t afford houses is because housing is unaffordable. This is victim blaming.

This is funny your now a victim if you cant buy a home. :rolleyes:

FionnK86

Can't wait to see this all pan out in 20 years. All the educated young folks who 'wasted' their 3 years in college will have moved abroad and settled to pay taxes. Then the government will be reducing the pension and you'll be moaning that back in the 80's the pension was worth a lot more. What goes around comes around.

Padre_Pio

ELM327 wrote: »

There is not a housing problem.
There's an "I want a subsidized/social house in the city" crisis.

This is the problem.

Has there been a single government policy that reduced the list price of a house?
There's plenty of grants and tax schemes to reclaim money (if you meet the means test) but property prices are going up and up and nothing is being done about it.

handlemaster wrote: »

This is funny your now a victim if you cant buy a home. :rolleyes:

A victim of the housing crisis?

tom1ie

Real problem is we don’t have an affordable rental sector with long term rental contracts like every other developed country.
Not everyone has to or can own a home.

Donald Trump

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I bought the house 3 years ago. Nice job playing the victim though.

Who is a victim? I'm grand. Save your concern for yourself - you are the one on 24k a year for your total income. Some good advice might be to invest in yourself rather than bricks and mortar at this stage of your life.

Timmaay

https://youtu.be/nUFZ1_fC3Kw good video on all this.

am_zarathustra

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I live in a smallish town. I moved back home to my parents and saved every penny I had. I was on 24k a year at the time. I never said it was easy.
Buying a house has never been easy. You can't have it all, you have to make sacrifices. You can't expect to buy a house in a city on minimum wage. There's plenty of small towns to chose from.

What if you don't have parents? Or your job only exists in an urban area? Or they are unwiling to help?

The argument to move back in with parents is an obviously ridiculous one outside of a very narrow world view. Build more social housing on government land by the council directly. Stop the council renting 3/4 bed semi D's in commuter belts and the prices will drop or at least stabilse until supply can be fixed. This is very basic economics.

And I have managed to buy a house, without having to move back in with my parents but I'm not naive or cruel enough to suggest that makes me better than anyone else, I was lucky with a promotion at the right time and my partner got a break around the same time. I know many people in almost identical situations where one small break a different way has meant they couldn't. Vagaries are not how home ownership should be decided

Donald Trump

am_zarathustra wrote: »

What if you don't have parents? Or your job only exists in an urban area? Or they are unwiling to help?

The argument to move back in with parents is an obviously ridiculous one outside of a very narrow world view. Build more social housing on government land by the council directly. Stop the council renting 3/4 bed semi D's in commuter belts and the prices will drop or at least stabilse until supply can be fixed. This is very basic economics.

And I have managed to buy a house, without having to move back in with my parents but I'm not naive or cruel enough to suggest that makes me better than anyone else, I was lucky with a promotion at the right time and my partner got a break around the same time. I know many people in almost identical situations where one small break a different way has meant they couldn't. Vagaries are not how home ownership should be decided

You will often find that some of these "self made property gurus" turn out to have gotten sizeable direct and/or indirect help from family.

SnuggyBear

Donald Trump wrote: »

Who is a victim? I'm grand. Save your concern for yourself - you are the one on 24k a year for your total income. Some good advice might be to invest in yourself rather than bricks and mortar at this stage of your life.

LOL what a snob. I've improved my salary since then. I have a house with very low mortgage repayments and a good car. I live comfortably. I can give you money management tips if you want?

Donald Trump

SnuggyBear wrote: »

LOL what a snob. I've improved my salary since then. I have a house with very low mortgage repayments and a good car. I live comfortably. I can give you money management tips if you want?

No, as I said you're grand. 24k a year wouldn't have paid for rent in a decent part of Dublin so you were lucky to have your parents to mooch off.



I have everything I need. That doesn't mean I don't recognise a dysfunctional market.

SnuggyBear

am_zarathustra wrote: »

What if you don't have parents? Or your job only exists in an urban area? Or they are unwiling to help?

The argument to move back in with parents is an obviously ridiculous one outside of a very narrow world view. Build more social housing on government land by the council directly. Stop the council renting 3/4 bed semi D's in commuter belts and the prices will drop or at least stabilse until supply can be fixed. This is very basic economics.

And I have managed to buy a house, without having to move back in with my parents but I'm not naive or cruel enough to suggest that makes me better than anyone else, I was lucky with a promotion at the right time and my partner got a break around the same time. I know many people in almost identical situations where one small break a different way has meant they couldn't. Vagaries are not how home ownership should be decided

I'm just saying what I did. Obviously you can't do that if you have no parents. Most parents would be happy to help their children get ahead in life. I also saved while I was renting. I moved back home to get me over the finish line.

SnuggyBear

Donald Trump wrote: »

No, as I said you're grand. 24k a year wouldn't have paid for rent in a decent part of Dublin so you were lucky to have your parents to mooch off.



I have everything I need. That doesn't mean I don't recognise a dysfunctional market.

OK grand, enjoy renting for the rest of your life.

Antares35

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Ye you can do that and buy a house or you can carry on complaining.

We don't all have parents willing to let us leech off them for several years you know.

Antares35

SnuggyBear wrote: »

OK grand, enjoy renting for the rest of your life.

I think SmuggyBear would be a more appropriate username for you

SnuggyBear

Antares35 wrote: »

I think SmuggyBear would be a more appropriate username for you

Well when I tell someone I bought a house on a low salary and they insult my salary instead of saying fair play I'll be smug about it ye.

SnuggyBear

Antares35 wrote: »

We don't all have parents willing to let us leech off them for several years you know.

Your parents wouldn't let you go back home for a couple of years? I don't know anyone who's parents wouldn't. In fact I know some people who never left the house in the first place.

I still had to save 80% of my wages. You think that's easy?

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Please point me to any capital city where someone on minimum wage or a zero hour contract could purchase a property?

According to the poster if they could buy a house alone anyone can, which would include people on minimum wage or a zero hour contract, so you might want to take your question to them.

Also don't know where in the country someone on minimum wage or a zero hour contract would be able to buy a property, can you?

SnuggyBear

DubInMeath wrote: »

According to the poster if they could buy a house alone anyone can, which would include people on minimum wage or a zero hour contract, so you might want to take your question to them.

Also don't know where in the country someone on minimum wage or a zero hour contract would be able to buy a house/apartment, can you?

They could in certain parts of the country if they had a full time job and saved. I'm not including somome with a part time job.

SnuggyBear

SnuggyBear wrote: »

They could in certain parts of the country

Really a ready to walk into property, any examples and banks who will provide mortgages to people on minimum wage or zero hour contracts?

SnuggyBear

DubInMeath wrote: »

Really a ready to walk into property, any examples and banks who will provide mortgages to people on minimum wage or zero hour contracts?

You are glossing over the saving part and in taking about a full time job.

SnuggyBear

SnuggyBear wrote: »

You are glossing over the saving part and in taking about a full time job.

But according to yourself anyone can buy a house if you did.
Also minimum wage doesn't mean part time.

irelandpride

SnuggyBear wrote: »

You are glossing over the saving part and in taking about a full time job.

Wow take home pay is 1740 and living in the back arse of no-where. Arnt you great.

Everyone should move to the back arse of no-where and work basically minimum wage like you.

Even on a salary of 65K with a take home wage of 3700 a month people can't get a mortgage.

SnuggyBear

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I bought the house 3 years ago. Nice job playing the victim though.

Am I missing something? Cos i've been skimming, if im honest, and haven't fully read the thread, but are you suggesting that you make 24k gross per year, and bought a house using just a 3.5x mortgage and some savings that you built up on your own, 3 years ago?


Are you based in Leitrim or another such low-cost-property area, though? Or did you receive a "gift" from someone at all.

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

Real problem is we don’t have an affordable rental sector with long term rental contracts like every other developed country.
Not everyone has to or can own a home.

Not only that, our apartments generally aren't designed as a long term option.

SnuggyBear

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Am I missing something? Cos i've been skimming, if im honest, and haven't fully read the thread, but are you suggesting that you make 24k gross per year, and bought a house using just a 3.5x mortgage and some savings that you built up on your own, 3 years ago?


Are you based in Leitrim or another such low-cost-property area, though? Or did you receive a "gift" from someone at all.

Ye you have it right. I saved all my life and put it with the 3.5 mortgage and I bought a house.

ELM327

DubInMeath wrote: »

According to the poster if they could buy a house alone anyone can, which would include people on minimum wage or a zero hour contract, so you might want to take your question to them.

Also don't know where in the country someone on minimum wage or a zero hour contract would be able to buy a property, can you?

Many moons ago I worked on min wage for €6 odd per hour. Now since I progressed, minimum wage has been upped to nearly €11.


€11 * 40hrs * 50 weeks (allowing 2 weeks unpaid leave) is 22,000.
€22,000 * 3.5 is 77,000.


Here's some houses ready to move in to that they could buy, just on the first 2 pages of daft search.


https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-45-sancta-maria-swinford-co-mayo/3220917


https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-blue-bell-cottage-dungarvan-co-kilkenny/3201879


https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-10-brandon-park-st-johnston-co-donegal/3204377


They arent going to be able to buy a 6 bed in Dalkey, but our combined earnings are comfortably in the 6 figures as a couple and we can't either!


Minimum wage is not a career that would usually lead to someone being able to purchase a house. Generally at that level you would be eligible for social housing, for mortgage initiatives part funded by the state etc. Pobably best looking at HTB and finding a partner - 2 incomes make it a lot easier than one, but it can be done!

SnuggyBear

irelandpride wrote: »

Wow take home pay is 1740 and living in the back arse of no-where. Arnt you great.

Everyone should move to the back arse of no-where and work basically minimum wage like you.

Even on a salary of 65K with a take home wage of 3700 a month people can't get a mortgage.

Enjoy your high salary and extortionate rents

Geuze

Padre_Pio wrote: »

This is the problem.

Has there been a single government policy that reduced the list price of a house?
There's plenty of grants and tax schemes to reclaim money (if you meet the means test) but property prices are going up and up and nothing is being done about it.

Yes.

Why does the State make the same mistake over and over, by adding to demand?

FTB grants
Help-to-Buy
planned shared equity scheme


They never seem to want to boost supply.

Antares35

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Your parents wouldn't let you go back home for a couple of years? I don't know anyone who's parents wouldn't. In fact I know some people who never left the house in the first place.

I still had to save 80% of my wages. You think that's easy?

I'm living at home now, and I pay rent to my parents. My partner and I are in a position to buy in the next few months. It has nothing to do with being "let" do anything. I just wouldn't leech off my pensioner parents and then boast about it as some kind of achievement.

tom1ie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not only that, our apartments generally aren't designed as a long term option.

Yes and no. Some are some aren’t.
Own door apartments with access to gardens etc are fine for long term renting.
Problem is rents are too high due to HAP keeping rents high, lots of apartments are shoe boxes, and people all want to own their own property to have stability.
Long term rents would provide this.

SnuggyBear

Antares35 wrote: »

I'm living at home now, and I pay rent to my parents. My partner and I are in a position to buy in the next few months. It has nothing to do with being "let" do anything. I just wouldn't leech off my pensioner parents and then boast about it as some kind of achievement.

You moved home to buy a house and your having a go at me for doing it?

This whole thread has proved the ops point. Plenty of salty people having a go at me for saving and buying a house in a location I could afford.
Taking the piss out of my salary and for moving back home to save more money. I feel no shame for moving back home and no one should if that's what it takes.

Whatever, people can carry on complaining they can't buy a house when they won't do whatever is needed to buy a house.

Tork

Where are you living, SnuggyBear? You don't have to give an exact location.

SnuggyBear

Tork wrote: »

Where are you living, SnuggyBear? You don't have to give an exact location.

I'll just say its a smallish town. Average Irish town. An hour from Dublin.

irelandpride

SnuggyBear wrote: »

You moved home to buy a house and your having a go at me for doing it?

This whole thread has proved the ops point. Plenty of salty people having a go at me for saving and buying a house in a location I could afford.
Taking the piss out of my salary and for moving back home to save more money. I feel no shame for moving back home and no one should if that's what it takes.

Whatever, people can carry on complaining they can't buy a house when they won't do whatever is needed to buy a house.

Not everyone want's to live off minimum wage.

Should everyone do that now? I take it your single as well with no kids as 24,000 wouldn't be enough to support a family.

SnuggyBear

irelandpride wrote: »

Not everyone want's to live off minimum wage.

Should everyone do that now? I take it your single as well with no kids as 24,000 wouldn't be enough to support a family.

I never said I was on minimum wage. I was on 24k. I'm on 30k now if you must know. My point was that if you really want to buy a house you can if you save hard enough. I'm done explaining myself now to be honest. I'll be asked for my eircode next.

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

Yes.

Why does the State make the same mistake over and over, by adding to demand?

FTB grants
Help-to-Buy
planned shared equity scheme


They never seem to want to boost supply.

It could be ideology. It could be corruption. Not sure.