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Is it fair to blame the Banks & Government if you cant get mortgage approval?

  • 13-05-2021 6:27pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ JizzBeans


    If the current generation of first time buyers have spent their 20's doing things like....


    1. Traveling the world
    2. Spending 3-6 years in college
    3. Living in Australia for a couple of years
    4. Buying new cars
    5. Buying the latest smartphones
    6. poor family planning
    7. Going on expensive holidays every summer
    8. Boozing every weekend
    9. Moving out with friends to live the life
    Then they shouldn't expect to get mortgage approval in their 30's now because they are "ready to settle down"



    Are people really surprised at the recent ERSI report findings? There is nothing inherently wrong with these activities as such, but they are not exactly compatible with saving for a deposit either.


    For most ordinary people, home ownership is a long and difficult journey, takes years of planning, saving, sacrifice etc. Its not something you decide to undertake on a whim because your are "getting on".


    Cant blame the banks and government for everything, personal responsibility has to play a part, no?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,608 ✭✭✭ Jinglejangle69


    Don't forget take aways etc.


    Compare all of that stuff to the previous generation.

    They had none of it.

    They put every penny into getting a house.

    You're right, they expect instant everything including a house but without the sacrifice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    JizzBeans wrote: »
    If the current generation of first time buyers have spent their 20's doing things like....


    1. Traveling the world
    2. Spending 3-6 years in college
    3. Living in Australia for a couple of years
    4. Buying new cars
    5. Buying the latest smartphones
    6. poor family planning
    7. Going on expensive holidays every summer
    8. Boozing every weekend
    9. Moving out with friends to live the life
    Then they shouldn't expect to get mortgage approval in their 30's now because they are "ready to settle down"



    Are people really surprised at the recent ERSI report findings? There is nothing inherently wrong with these activities as such, but they are not exactly compatible with saving for a deposit either.


    For most ordinary people, home ownership is a long and difficult journey, takes years of planning, saving, sacrifice etc. Its not something you decide to undertake on a whim because your are "getting on".


    Cant blame the banks and government for everything, personal responsibility has to play a part, no?

    Yes if they all, everyone of them, did that - you’d still be wrong.

    But the reasons why they can’t afford houses is because housing is unaffordable. This is victim blaming.


  • Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭ Oymyakon


    Mortgage approval isn't the issue - It's the cost and lack of availability of housing. If mortgage lending rules loosened, house prices would soar even higher if we don't tackle the root issue - supply.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    Don't forget take aways etc.


    Compare all of that stuff to the previous generation.

    They had none of it.

    They put every penny into getting a house.

    You're right, they expect instant everything including a house but without the sacrifice.

    Also. Houses were cheaper back then relative to income and people could purchase them younger.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,363 ✭✭✭✭ pjohnson


    I thought it was Avocado to blame?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,628 ✭✭✭✭ snoopsheep


    Dont forget avocados

    Edit goddamit


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,363 ✭✭✭✭ pjohnson


    snoopsheep wrote: »
    Dont forget avocados

    Edit goddamit

    giphy.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭ dubrov


    House buyers compete with each other for the same properties.

    If they all had more savings, prices would just rise and the same people still wouldn't be able to afford them


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    Is it worth going through the op’s list and proving them all wrong, or do we just leave it there as a testament to lies and economic illiteracy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,305 ✭✭✭✭ jimmycrackcorm


    It would be very unfair to blame young people for being unable to afford to get a mortgage because they travel etc.

    Those who scrimp and save instead still face a huge mountain to get past in terms of achieving an income that will provide 3.5 times salary and also the 20% deposit. On top of having to pay extortionate rents.

    One significant factor is that many are choosing to buy as a single applicant where traditionally a couple would do jointly. And then singletons are competing with couples for limited supply.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    dubrov wrote: »
    House buyers compete with each other for the same properties.

    If they all had more savings, prices would just rise and the same people still wouldn't be able to afford them

    Well that’s the economic part done.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    My parents bought a new 4 bed semi D on a commuter rail line from Dublin for a tad over 3x the median single salary in 1986.

    The equivalent now - a new, smaller albeit better insulated house on a smaller site in the same town would be closer to 10x a median single salary.

    Sure, interest rates were higher but that doesn't even vaguely cancel out the affordability difference. And your average 1980s buyers probably drank like fish and smoked like chimneys based on average consumption of each in Ireland back then; which have both fallen significantly - that's why there was no money for holidays and the like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭ Buddy Bubs


    If the reason they can't get a mortgage is an inability to get a deposit together then you have a point. I think deposits are a good idea by the way, I put in 10% myself I just missed out on the days of 100% mortgages and I'm glad I did.

    Sometimes people have to make a choice between saving and spending.

    If they have a 10% deposit saved but they can't get a mortgage, it's house prices being out of their reach.

    Reasons why prices are out of reach:

    Supply being too low to cater for people that want to buy homes, people that want to invest in property and institutions investing.

    Building and land costs too high

    Others that want to buy having higher deposits and higher salaries

    I do believe the days of people in average to low paying jobs being able to buy in the same area their parents did with their average to low paying jobs are over.

    What we do need, is a functioning rental market to complement the buying market. We don't have a rental market od be happy to be in at the moment. Institutional investors may actually be the answer to this.....but not at today's rent prices. I'd prefer to rent from a professional institution than a have a go landlord with no knowledge of the law and rules.

    Dublin and other areas in demand are not going to fall again in my opinion.

    What we don't need are silly government schemes like shared equity and help to buy. They push up prices, I saw it first hand with help to buy.
    My brother qualified for it and bought a new build house just as it came in. The developers then copped people had more money and jacked up the prices. The launch a few weeks after his were 30k dearer than his launch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭ skimpydoo


    JizzBeans wrote: »
    If the current generation of first time buyers have spent their 20's doing things like....


    1. Traveling the world
    2. Spending 3-6 years in college
    3. Living in Australia for a couple of years
    4. Buying new cars
    5. Buying the latest smartphones
    6. poor family planning
    7. Going on expensive holidays every summer
    8. Boozing every weekend
    9. Moving out with friends to live the life
    Then they shouldn't expect to get mortgage approval in their 30's now because they are "ready to settle down"



    Are people really surprised at the recent ERSI report findings? There is nothing inherently wrong with these activities as such, but they are not exactly compatible with saving for a deposit either.


    For most ordinary people, home ownership is a long and difficult journey, takes years of planning, saving, sacrifice etc. Its not something you decide to undertake on a whim because your are "getting on".


    Cant blame the banks and government for everything, personal responsibility has to play a part, no?

    In this case you can blame the banks and the government. If the current generation of first time buyers had not done any of the things on your list, they still could not have the opportunity to buy a house or apartment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ pioneerpro


    They put every penny into getting a house.

    You're right, they expect instant everything including a house but without the sacrifice.

    Ah yeah, like the huge tracts of social housing sold for pennies on the pound to long-term tenants who were effectively subsidised for both their rent and their purchase by the Government?

    Or like the current pension liability load? I suppose the fair market value of those pensions were earned during the working life of the over 60s?

    Pull the other one.
    they expect instant everything

    Age to leave education, age to purchase property and even age to marry are now amongst the highest in the developed world. Normal economies don't force people to wait till their mid to late 30s to try for a child.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/average-age-of-irish-men-to-marry-is-now-oldest-on-record-38001372.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭ Figel Narage


    As someone in their 20's who has been saving since......forever to buy a house, I do note that a lot of people my age don't seem to want to save and would rather spend money on travelling, drink and strabucks who will then complain about the housing situation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not thrilled about the situation but I'm doing everything in my power to try and buy a house one day through a high amount of saving and getting on a path that increases income a long the way. The situation we're in is not great but in my eyes, you can only try your best to optimise the things you can control to get there and ignore anything outside of your control.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,267 ✭✭✭ DubInMeath


    Don't forget take aways etc.


    Compare all of that stuff to the previous generation.

    They had none of it.

    They put every penny into getting a house.

    You're right, they expect instant everything including a house but without the sacrifice.

    Fairly sure chippers have existed for a few generations.

    Family planning in terms of contraception didn't exist for many.

    More people went to the pub on a daily basis than the current generation.

    However moaning about the younger generation is a time honoured pastime for certain types of people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭ gandalfio


    It's still pretty easy to get mortgage approval. It's the unaffordable price of homes that's the main problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ JizzBeans


    Oymyakon wrote: »
    Mortgage approval isn't the issue - It's the cost and lack of availability of housing. If mortgage lending rules loosened, house prices would soar even higher if we don't tackle the root issue - supply.




    Not entirely accurate, cost and availability might be an issue in area X but not in area Y.


    If you refuse to entertain the idea of buying outside of Dublin, for example, then you cant objectively make that claim.


    "I want to be near me ma" isn't a good enough excuse


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭ Fann Linn


    JizzBeans wrote: »
    If the current generation of first time buyers have spent their 20's doing things like....


    1. Traveling the world
    2. Spending 3-6 years in college
    3. Living in Australia for a couple of years
    4. Buying new cars
    5. Buying the latest smartphones
    6. poor family planning
    7. Going on expensive holidays every summer
    8. Boozing every weekend
    9. Moving out with friends to live the life
    Then they shouldn't expect to get mortgage approval in their 30's now because they are "ready to settle down"



    Are people really surprised at the recent ERSI report findings? There is nothing inherently wrong with these activities as such, but they are not exactly compatible with saving for a deposit either.


    For most ordinary people, home ownership is a long and difficult journey, takes years of planning, saving, sacrifice etc. Its not something you decide to undertake on a whim because your are "getting on".


    Cant blame the banks and government for everything, personal responsibility has to play a part, no?


    Ye could apply your list to every generation.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ JizzBeans


    gandalfio wrote: »
    It's still pretty easy to get mortgage approval. It's the unaffordable price of homes that's the main problem.




    In certain counties, yes


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ JizzBeans


    fvp4 wrote: »
    Is it worth going through the op’s list and proving them all wrong, or do we just leave it there as a testament to lies and economic illiteracy.


    Oof, lead balloon here:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭ Oymyakon


    JizzBeans wrote: »
    Not entirely accurate, cost and availability might be an issue in area X but not in area Y.


    If you refuse to entertain the idea of buying outside of Dublin, for example, then you cant objectively make that claim.


    "I want to be near me ma" isn't a good enough excuse

    Ok, let's say the Dublin house hunters decide to buy further afield. Then the regional areas go up in price as well due to the competition.

    We're already seeing it in these housing estates in the likes of Kildare and Meath, unless we tackle the issue of supply then the affordability issue will keep spreading across the entire country. Besides, very few people will have the remote working flexibility to buy homes in the likes of Sligo...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,210 ✭✭✭ The J Stands for Jay


    Don't forget take aways etc.


    Compare all of that stuff to the previous generation.

    They had none of it.

    They put every penny into getting a house.

    You're right, they expect instant everything including a house but without the sacrifice.

    And don't forget the avocado toast They're always eating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭ jam_mac_jam


    L1011 wrote: »
    My parents bought a new 4 bed semi D on a commuter rail line from Dublin for a tad over 3x the median single salary in 1986.

    The equivalent now - a new, smaller albeit better insulated house on a smaller site in the same town would be closer to 10x a median single salary.

    Sure, interest rates were higher but that doesn't even vaguely cancel out the affordability difference. And your average 1980s buyers probably drank like fish and smoked like chimneys based on average consumption of each in Ireland back then; which have both fallen significantly - that's why there was no money for holidays and the like.

    Same with my parents. They always go on about how poor they were and I think to myself you had four children ffs and went abroad on holidays. You really really weren't. I would never be able to afford their house even on two wages and one kid.

    It is so much harder for the generation after me to buy a house. And it wasn't very easy for me. The amount of people on crazy commutes or spending half their wages on rent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,210 ✭✭✭ The J Stands for Jay


    JizzBeans wrote: »
    Not entirely accurate, cost and availability might be an issue in area X but not in area Y.


    If you refuse to entertain the idea of buying outside of Dublin, for example, then you cant objectively make that claim.


    "I want to be near me ma" isn't a good enough excuse

    There are no jobs in area Y. If you moved there, you would then not be able to afford the lower price.

    It's the older generation who demand instant gratification. New Toyota Corolla every two years, going nuts when the lad in the dealership can't get it quick enough "You can't use Covid as an excuse for everything."


  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭ divillybit


    Young folk get very touchy about their spending habits and see going to oz as a right of passage that often times doesent do much for their career progression... I did the 4 years in college, graduated in 2008 into the recession, decided not to travel as I'd no real interest in going abroad and wanted to get work in Ireland... But I worked hard and saved hard and by 2016 had enough saved to buy a place along with needing a small mortgage that I've since cleared.. People in their 20s kinda need to be mentored a little that those are the years when they will have the most disposable income and to save or invest it wisely..but they don't really want to listen


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭ Shebean


    I can't believe anyone believes the first comment including the person posted it.

    Prices are too high and supply is low. New supply is being bought up to be rented and first time buyers are being priced out. The younger cohort have come up through this, a financial crash and Covid. Hardly living on the pigs back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ JizzBeans


    Oymyakon wrote: »
    Ok, let's say the Dublin house hunters decide to buy further afield. Then the regional areas go up in price as well due to the competition.

    We're already seeing it in these housing estates in the likes of Kildare and Meath, unless we tackle the issue of supply then the affordability issue will keep spreading across the entire country. Besides, very few people will have the remote working flexibility to buy homes in the likes of Sligo...


    Maybe, but over a longer period of time.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭ Triangle


    Land prices play a huge part. Back in the 90s land was land.
    Now agricultural land can be around 15 acre (depending on quality) but you have planning permission and its suddenly worth €200k.


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