Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903274#Comment_117903274

What evidence is there for this, beyond the word of the Mirror journo? None of the subsequent references to the story that I can see appear to cite any source. Is the identity of this witness known "on the grapevine"?

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903118#Comment_117903118

Not remarkable when you consider that any evidence that might have been of benefit to the innocent (Ian Bailey) man's case was buried or destroyed quicker than you can say "that English B***ox". It's all conspiracy if it doesn't serve to nail him.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903354#Comment_117903354

"doesn't serve"

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903354#Comment_117903354

Right, but if I was IB and was sitting in court trying to show that I was being set up and other leads weren't investigated properly, I'd have that statement printed on my t-shirt while giving evidence. It's very odd no one seems to have seen the statement itself.

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903331#Comment_117903331

He probably will in his next documentary on the case I'd imagine, a lot of the first documentary was about the family of STDP, Ian Bailey, the trial in France, I'd imagine the next one will focus more on alternative theories to the one the gards came up with.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903398#Comment_117903398

Is that what you'd do? Why don't you engage with something really relevant like the missing Jobs Book pages and how admissions of guilt as given to Malachi Reed, Helen Callanan turn up within weeks?

Bazzy

One thing that sticks with me from the west cork podcast is. The time on the phone calls couldn't be recorded because the exchange was analogue. So would eircom guess your phone bill?

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903453#Comment_117903453

This place is like a goldfish bowl, we've already discussed both of these elements, several times. This is just a blatant diversion from the obvious question about where this 'statement' came from, why we haven't seen it, why none of the papers, podcasts or documentaries has interviewed 'Martin O'Sullivan' or whether the next entry in jobs book says 'Ford Fiesta owned by 85 year old farmer Paddy Murphy drove towards Bantry with seriously ill family member at approx 7am'. We need the statement, the context etc before we can even start taking it seriously.

DivilsAdvocate

https://www.thejournal.ie/west-cork-cannabis-growhouses-found-in-skibbereen-and-ballydehob-man-arrested-5433020-May2021/

Another growhouse was found a few months ago 20 minutes drive from Sophies House

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903513#Comment_117903513

Which is why I am ignoring it. What I am not ignoring is the very serious matter that GSOC considered reporting to the DPP, namely missing pages from a Jobs Book at precisely the time when Ian Bailey became a suspect for murder. There is something nefarious there that had to be destroyed. Coincidentally, (absurd) admissions of guilt on his part began to appear immediately after and in a number of these it is highly likely they were as a result of surveillance. That is the most plausible explanation as to why many of the relevant investigators would not engage with GSOC.

Backstreet Moyes

Whether anyone thinks Bailey is guilty or not, I don't think anyone can argue.

There is far more evidence of police corruption than evidence that Bailey murdered Sophie.

Deleted

sporina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903601#Comment_117903601

not sure about corruption but definitely incompetence and unprofessionalism

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903339#Comment_117903339

That's not part of it. Everybody knew she was cheating on her husband.

The only speculation, I've heard about was Karl-Heinz Wolney the musician and the Gard from Bantry.

Also her husband was cheating on her, with his next bride to be.

Curious_Case

Regarding the process of "disclosure"

I wonder has a status quo been reached, in that IB may wish to have charges brought against him so that the events of the investigation can be further unraveled.

Similarly, AGS may no longer wish to have charges brought against him, for the same reason.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903629#Comment_117903629

I think it is more than incompetent or unprofessional to deliberately remove pages from a job book. Interfering with evidence could jeopardize a whole case. That amounts to perverting the course of justice.

The aparent lack of investigation into when, who and why is incompetent and / or unprofessional.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901489#Comment_117901489

There was no "honest" investigator, just a naive one who thought Jules was being honest. The problem of course is that Jules`s "honest" testimony about her whereabouts on the morning after the murder was later contradicted by three separate witnesses. One of them was her own daughter Fenella. Jules has always maintained that she didn`t leave her house that morning. Fenella says she did and for a couple of hours.

Bill Fuller says he drove along the main road that ran in the direction from Sophie`s house to Kealfadda Bridge and Jule`s was driving in front of him. She turned for Goleen and he for Schull. He reckoned this was about 11-20 AM.

James Camier said that Jules came to his vegetable stall in Goleen between 11 and 11-30. She told him that Ian had to cover a story about a French woman that had been murdered. He was shocked and says this was when he first heard about the murder.

She shouldn`t have had this information at this time.

The boys on the Bandon tape were right to malign the original interrogator. He made a stupid mistake. But that`s as far as they should have taken it.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903629#Comment_117903629

Definitely not corruption. When the journalist Ann Cahill turned up at Bantry Garda station having alerted a photographer to Ian Bailey's second arrest it was definitely not because the Guards told her. She couldn't remember who told her when a solicitor for Ian Bailey pointed out in a later trial that the Guards were the only ones who had that information. She said the Guards were not easy to get information from. So there you have it.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903757#Comment_117903757

So do you think Jules participated in the murder or is just an accessory to murder, which is almost as serious?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903757#Comment_117903757

I never thought that Jules was honest. If Bailey really did it and came home blood soaked everywhere she would have noticed. She would also have noticed the bonfire behind the studio where Bailey burnt something, apparently "evidence". After all, she would have been his landlord.

I also think that Shirley knew more than she told, especially if Alfie was smoking cannabis. She must at least have known where he had it from and how often he got it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903352#Comment_117903352

Since IB in his interview on Monday said "he made a statement and it was never followed up" and he has all the garda and French files, I think we can safely trust that there is a statement.

To announce there's a statement on national TV and it not exist would be a bit bloody stupid.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903757#Comment_117903757

The problem with the above witness's is how confident are they that they times correct and the date correct. Its difficult to estimate times at a later date which these witness's were recalling events which happened months before.

• Jules daughter Fenella - My understanding is Fenella is the youngest of Jules daughters and was only 12 at the time of the murder - can you rely on a 12 year old to get the time and timespan right. The 2 other daughters and the spanish student were at Jules house - Can they back up what Fenella said? Its possible she confused the day and Jules was out the morning on the Saturday or Sunday morning.
• Bill - again how sure is he that he seen Jules car on the Monday morning - could it the sunday morning.
• James Camier - Im sure he was busy with customers buying their christmas veg and when your busy time often runs away with you. Can he be sure the time was between 11 & 11.30 - it could easily have been later.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903798#Comment_117903798

She didn`t participate in the murder. But Bailey was able to tell her about the murder of a French woman locally that morning. He should not have known about it if he was innocent. He also had a phone conversation with a local woman, Caroline Leftwick, at noon. He told her a woman had been murdered locally. She recalled being shocked and wondered if she knew who it was. He said it was a French woman on holiday and she wouldn`t have known her. There is no way that Bailey could have had this information at that time.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903862#Comment_117903862

• Jules daughter Fenella - My understanding is Fenella is the youngest of Jules daughters and was only 12 at the time of the murder - can you rely on a 12 year old to get the time and timespan right. The 2 other daughters and the spanish student were at Jules house - Can they back up what Fenella said? Its possible she confused the day and Jules was out the morning on the Saturday or Sunday morning.

I think she was 14, it sounds like she said Jules came back with vegetables since one of Jules' statements quoted in court says 'If Fenella says I brought home some vegetables then it must have been the Monday I was in Goleen' and the same statement says 'I drove past the scene at 11am and on to the causeway'. Jules denied in court saying these things.

• Bill - again how sure is he that he seen Jules car on the Monday morning - could it the sunday morning.

Did Jules say she drove past the road to Sophie's on the Sunday morning?

• James Camier - Im sure he was busy with customers buying their christmas veg and when your busy time often runs away with you. Can he be sure the time was between 11 & 11.30 - it could easily have been later.

If it was later, were they not using the car to go and investigate the murder? It would have to be after 3pm or so, it seems highly unlikely someone would confuse talking to someone at around 11am when it was actually after 3pm. It was mentioned on the 2pm news so you would think the word would have been out all over the place later in the afternoon.

CowgirlBoots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903068#Comment_117903068

In Sheridan's doc IB claims to have found this info in the Garda files. Curious.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903914#Comment_117903914

Shirley Foster was the first to find the body. It was clear who it was. Alfie was on the phone to people almost immediately. A poster on here said she heard what had happened before midday, and she was in Cork City!

Bailey and Jules knowing about the murder that morning means absolutely nothing.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903833#Comment_117903833

If pressed (as that VM interviewer would have done if she was up to the job) could he not just say "I read it but I don't have a hardcopy" or somesuch?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903979#Comment_117903979

I don't know - Kids that age are not that known to be reliable with time and dates. Its possible she was right but she also be wrong.

All I know is if someone asked me what did I did last monday I would struggle to remember exactly what I did and exact times etc. I may even confuse what I done on Monday with what I actually done on Tuesday. I would also find it hard to recall the date and time I seen someone when trying to recall it at a later date. All these people could be right or they all could be talking about a completely different day.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117904043#Comment_117904043

Why wouldn't they just say that then? Mr. X or Mrs. Y rang us and told us about it around 11.30?

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117904043#Comment_117904043

So why didn`t he just say Alfie phoned him and told him all about it? Because he knew the phone records would show that he didn`t.