Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145672#Comment_120145672

It could just be that there is a bad dose going around like the flu that was circulating late 2019 prior to covid.

DLink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145700#Comment_120145700

And, for example, what about the missed cancer appointments / diagnoses?

You can't blame a "bad dose" for them.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145790#Comment_120145790

I never said anything about any of that. All I said was just because there is a bad dose going around, it doesn't mean it is because our immune systems are weakened because of lockdowns or restrictions. We have had plenty of bad doses in the past.

DLink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145799#Comment_120145799

Well I'm sticking with the reduced immunity story, can't be making excuses for the pointless covid restrictions.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145700#Comment_120145700

And along similar lines, this is an article pre-dating Covid, concerned about a new more dangerous strain of Strep A.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190910194245.htm

odyssey06

We need to be specific about what we mean by "reduced" immunity or "immunity debt". We may have lost some of the carryover immunity e.g. flu infection from one year carrying over from one year to the next but there is absolutely nothing to suggest that our immune systems are worse at fighting off infections. We know that such 'carryover' is very limited because you can get infected again and again with flu, RSV and the flu vaccine needs to be updated each year to account for new strains.

And we are seeing a surge in 'novel' infections ie children encountering a disease for the first time but nothing to suggest that their immune systems at 'worse' at that than before.

But sadly, those with political or ideological agendas have been quick to fit this into their pre-existing narrative: some have said it’s a consequence of lockdown and children not being exposed enough to diseases and building up an “immunity debt”, while others have said it’s due to weakened immune systems from prior Covid-19 infection, given that the majority of children have now had Covid-19.

Neither of these hypotheses has enough data to support it yet. And in fact one could also argue that restrictions on social mixing and the reduced transmission of all infectious diseases delayed strep A infection in children, including severe cases. A similar argument can be made for the benefits of delaying RSV infection in infants, which can trigger recurrent wheezing and asthma during childhood.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/06/strep-a-uk-myths-deaths-children

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144926#Comment_120144926

Maybe you should see the response shown in the video I linked and how the data on which the BBC based its article is questioned.

As for the BBC being reputable ..... yes it used to be but anyone taking notice knows its former reputation is considerably tarnished now.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120148349#Comment_120148349

Random bunch of youtubers v the BBC?

Right.

Come back to us when you have some real data and not a bunch of youtubers 'just asking questions' in a long winded video. Nobody has time to sit through all the videos linked on this forum.

The BBC are basing it on official UK data.

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120148388#Comment_120148388

That has really shown your ignorance.

no need to say much more.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145626#Comment_120145626

Hospitals had to cancel operations and screenings due to the pandemic, likewise during that period less people obviously went for screenings due to Covid. This was the first winter without masks and distancing, ergo we had high cases of flu, Covid, additional respiratory diseases.

We do have a decent understanding of why there are more excess deaths, there are numerous factors, as already pointed out. Ageing populations, over-crowded hospitals, reduced healthcare staff, delayed treatments/screenings, Covid and long Covid, summer heatwaves, and so on.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120148834#Comment_120148834

Ivor Cummins, jesus christ.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145819#Comment_120145819

Pointless COVID restrictions? When were these?

Do you remember what happened when we let people off to Cheltenham and cases exploded when they got back or when we relaxed restrictions in December 2020 and how bad things were in January 2021?

I don't think anybody liked the restrictions but most accepted they were the right thing at the time.

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149142#Comment_120149142

There is neither Ivor Cummins, nor Jesus Christ in it afaik.

100% BBC content only.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149283#Comment_120149283

It's his Youtube channel highlighting a BBC interview with a controversial anti-vax cardiologist.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/article-by-cardiologist-aseem-malhotra-made-unsupported-claims-about-benefits-risks-covid-19-vaccination/

https://fullfact.org/health/bbc-malhotra-vaccines-excess-deaths/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bbc-air-interview-covid-19-vaccine-skeptic/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149141#Comment_120149141

We didn't have to cancel screenings and treatments. We chose to.

Hospitals had 2 very quiet years during COVID for the most part. Plenty of people including myself posted about A+E wait times of under 20mins.

I was waiting for a routine procedure that was cancelled at a time when we had 23 cases in hospital in the whole country.

The other side of it is that our leaders and health officials and the media terrified people so they stayed away from hospitals.

It is these failed lockdown policies that is contributing to our excess deaths now.

This is not surprising though. In fact, several of us predicted the economic pain and excess deaths back in summer 2020.

What's very predictable and disappointing is people trying to brush it off as COVID, long COVID and unvaccinated etc.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150288#Comment_120150288

Due to a pandemic.

ICU's reached critical levels in many cities, medical staff and professionals were pushed to their limits and over them (which is why we have staffing issues now), an estimated 80,000 health staff world wide died due to Covid, over 6.5 million people died.

You are just sitting here, with hindsight, vaccines, knowledge of Covid, increased resistance, herd immunity, judging a period in time when we didn't have those things.

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149570#Comment_120149570

What is so controversial about what Malhotra said in that interview? Which of the statements that he made are not true?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150414#Comment_120150414

Read the links, he's a controversial figure who has anti-vax views.

The BBC was criticised for letting this guy air his views

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/13/bbc-cardiologist-aseem-malhotra-links-covid-jabs-to-heart-disease-deaths

"Scientists have described the doctor as “hijacking” an interview on statins to air his views, causing BBC staff to be “alarmed and embarrassed” by their booking. Malhotra recently retweeted a video by the MP Andrew Bridgen, who had the Tory whip removed on Wednesday after comparing the use of Covid vaccines to the Holocaust."

"Dr Stephen Griffin, a virologist at the University of Leeds, said: “I am genuinely astonished by the BBC allowing someone with a known extreme fringe view on mRNA vaccines and the extent to which they are associated with cardiovascular problems to either hijack an interview on a tenuously related topic to express these views, or indeed to appear at all following even a cursory background check.”"

"Prof Marc Dweck, the chair of clinical cardiology at the University of Edinburgh, told the Guardian: “I think that Dr Malhotra’s opinions on both statins and Covid vaccines are misguided and in fact dangerous. The vast majority of cardiologists do not agree with his views and they are not based upon robust science."

"Dr Matt Kneale, the co-chair of the Doctors’ Association, said Malhotra’s appearance was “deeply dangerous behaviour” and called on the General Medical Council to take action."

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150575#Comment_120150575

You did not answer the question. The links that you are posting are of no value. I was asking what you disagree with. I'm not interested in what news outlets think about what BBC had done.

Are you disagreeing with him right off the bat, as he is an anti-vaxxer? 

ceadaoin.

He's not an 'anti vaxxer'. Just covid mRNA ones. Do we label people with concerns about opioids 'anti painkillers' (Purdue pharma wish they thought of that that lol) or people who aren't sure about any particular drug, anti drug? It's ridiculous but makes people feel better I suppose

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150650#Comment_120150650

The info is in the links and sourced properly. His views are contradicted by multiple experts and the BHF, it's right there. Individual professionals are not exempt from having quack or fringe views. There's a doctor who thinks there are magnets in vaccines, and another who thinks they are "poison", they might have the ability to bamboozle and convince a lay-person who is already scared of vaccines, but they get shredded by people who know what they are talking about.

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151001#Comment_120151001

I'll take it that you cannot make your own assessment and thus cannot answer my questions. That is fine with me.

Johnboy1951

For those persons who refuse to attain some knowledge because it is carried by someone/something they refuse to view, maybe a Twit post would be more to your liking?

https://twitter.com/MartinNeil9/status/1617571309428576257?cxt=HHwWgsDUlaSi4vIsAAAA

So continue to believe in the misinformation that you so readily accepted from the likes of the oh so truthful BBC or maybe reconsider your views ...

Of course should there be some who gain from persuading people to a certain view I expect even this from the UK Statistics Regulator will be insufficient.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151945#Comment_120151945

Look at the crap he is retweeting, another quack. Even so, perhaps his background in, oh, it's computer science. Amazed the ONS actually replied to this.

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120152164#Comment_120152164

Hahahahahaha

Typical response when the content cannot be attacked because of its source - attack the messenger!

walus

Meanwhile in Ireland:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/irelands-excess-deaths-rate-rivals-worst-of-covid-pandemic-mgr7fzw9m

The article is behind the pay wall, but Gript.ie has covered the gist of it:

https://gript.ie/huge-spike-in-excess-deaths-not-attributable-to-covid/

That would be great ass covering, just blame COVID and the cyber attack from a few years back...

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120152918#Comment_120152918

Gript is a far right blog site.

From the Times article itself:

"Ireland has seen a huge spike in excess mortality that rivals the peak of the pandemic — yet Covid-19 is no longer the primary cause of death, The Sunday Times can reveal.

"Post-pandemic pressures on the HSE such as treatment backlogs and a wave of late diagnoses allied to the added pressures on the health system of a lingering “twindemic” of flu and Covid-19 all appear to be taking their toll. The seven-day rolling average of deaths reported on January 9, 2023 was 152 — almost as high as the weekly average of 156 reported on January 29, 2021 — the peak of the disastrous third wave that triggered a six-month nationwide lockdown."

"Gabriel Scally, a professor of public health at the University of Bristol, said the rising wave of Irish deaths looked “very bad” in comparison with the UK.

“I am not surprised to see it in the UK but I am surprised to see it in Ireland,” Scally, who oversaw the CervicalCheck inquiry, said. “Whereas there has been a relative disinvestment in healthcare in the UK, Ireland has done relatively well in terms of their overall health performance.” There could be a variety of causes for this post-pandemic wave, he said, adding: “Excess winter deaths do vary depending on the pattern of weather and the pattern of circulating viruses, influenza being one of the most important. “Overcrowding in A&E could be part of it with people waiting for ambulances for hours or receiving ‘corridor care’. Long Covid could also be an influencing factor, having had detrimental effects on people’s cardiovascular and respiratory systems. Covid-19 could still play a role: with low levels of booster uptake and waning immunity there is a risk lower levels of testing for patients dying outside of hospitals, such as the elderly dying in care homes or at home, may mean it’s not being picked up.” The effects of the rising cost of living could also be a factor, he warned. “One of the problems with excess winter deaths is they are very heavily linked to social conditions,” he said. “It could be the fuel crisis, that people are being very limited with their spend on fuel; it may be a housing crisis, with low quality housing. There could be quite a number of reasons but we won’t really know that for some time until we see the cause of death data.” Reacting to the rise in excess deaths, Duncan Smith, the Labour health spokesman, called for the government to take action by reintroducing mandatory mask wearing in a bid to prevent transmission of respiratory conditions. The Dublin Fingal TD said: “The number of excess deaths must be a cause of concern for government considering the triple assault on our health service from Covid, flu and RSV [respiratory syncytial virus] “Last week I called for stronger and clearer public health advice including in the area of face masks. There is a clear lack of public health leadership from the minister and senior health officials.” David Cullinane, Sinn Fein’s health spokesman, urged the government to ensure there were adequate resources allocated to hospitals. The Waterford TD also said the public should listen to public health advice to reduce their risk. “Obviously we have to listen to that advice but also everything must be done to make sure we have the allocation of resources in emergency departments,” he said. “We need preventative measures, public health measures plus everything possible done to support those on the front line in healthcare.” An HSE spokesman yesterday said the Health Protection Surveillance Centre’s most recent data on excess deaths had shown “no indications of excess all-cause deaths occurring in Ireland in the last four weeks”. The spokesman added: “These data are provisional due to the time delay with death registration in Ireland. A country-specific adjustment function was applied to correct for the typical delay in registrations of deaths in Ireland. Nonetheless, estimates of excess mortality for the most recent weeks/months are reported with some uncertainty and should be interpreted with caution.”"

Similar to what I wrote (and others have pointed out)

Hospitals had to cancel operations and screenings due to the pandemic, likewise during that period less people obviously went for screenings due to Covid. This was the first winter without masks and distancing, ergo we had high cases of flu, Covid, additional respiratory diseases.

We do have a decent understanding of why there are more excess deaths, there are numerous factors, as already pointed out. Ageing populations, over-crowded hospitals, reduced healthcare staff, delayed treatments/screenings, Covid and long Covid, summer heatwaves, and so on.

It's a combination of things.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120153120#Comment_120153120

There's no evidence vaccines have anything to do with excess deaths.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120153272#Comment_120153272

Have you seen the evidence for the fuel crisis or the housing crisis causing a huge spike in excess mortality?

“It could be the fuel crisis, that people are being very limited with their spend on fuel; it may be a housing crisis, with low quality housing. There could be quite a number of reasons but we won’t really know that for some time until we see the cause of death data.”