What's the point of Paul Murphy?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919423#Comment_118919423

While the normal parties in power in the west are working to wean themselves off russian resources after making the mistake of thinking russia would be a more normal country post it's communist disaster, the leftist party's (including paul murphy and the irish opposition) still aren't going back on their previous comments on russia (some choosing to delete it entirely...) or are still actively supporting russia by refusing to vote for sanctions (because you know that's needed for trade to stop for energy as well? surely you know that much? if you're not voting for the sanctions you're actively supporting the dependencies).

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923779#Comment_118923779

Putin isn't making his billions through hash deals with Gino Kenny.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923818#Comment_118923818

What's the point of Paul Murphy?

Could you be more off topic of the thread if you tried?

"Putin isn't making his billions through hash deals with Gino Kenny."

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923818#Comment_118923818

If they're voting against the sanctions that cut off the flow of money to russia they are implicitly supporting those billions. What you think about Gino Kenny and his hash dealings is irrelevant and you are effectively saying you never want the likes of Gino Kenny in government because they'll support russia when the dealings are bigger than hash.

But you don't seem to support russia but are supporting those opposed to sanctions on russia, so you're left in a quandary on who to support again. Either own your support of russia or condemn it (or do neither, no one really cares it's just funny seeing some people founder like this).

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923860#Comment_118923860

Not supporting anyone. Discussing your general comment on the left.

Murphy and friends didn't make Putin the billionaire he is today. The Irish government and private enterprise played a major role, far and above any minor socialist leaning politician.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923888#Comment_118923888

Yet those on the left continue their support while everyone else introduces sanctions.

The way back to normalisation is for wars to stop, sanctions to be lifted and trade resuming (likely only possible with putin gone, but it will be another leader making money instead unless they reduce corruption significantly, which was one of the excuses given to invade Ukraine).

The left seem to want to roll over and expose their yellow bellies. You seem to be supportive of this for whatever reason.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924274#Comment_118924274

I find it interesting the big move to associate the left and opposition with Putin. I get it and there are certainly links, but it smacks of desperation. Everybody has been in bed with him for many years and far beyond being an oil or gas customer.

The sanctions will be harder on the Russian public but I think the only change must come from within and sanctions might help that.

The west and Irish of course turned many a blind eye on putin over the years. Trying to tack the left to putin just seems like the investors and piggy banks for Russian businesses covering their arse.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924288#Comment_118924288

russia was trading as a normal country, are you saying we should stop trading with basically everyone? In case they start a war? There is a normality that exists in international relations that allows trade to occur but also respects the country's sovereignty to run itself even if in opposition with Western values. Insular countries (like USSR) eventually fail. Murphy is a proponent of an insular socialist economy (well, maybe it will trade with maduro...).

At least you have said you support sanctions which puts you firmly against the majority of those sitting on the left (I guess PBP/Rise is off your voting list now, so soon after you switched from SF due to their housing policy).

And it's not a stretch to associate those on the left with putin when they're the ones voting against the sanctions which impact putin...

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924311#Comment_118924311

I wouldn't trade with China, Israel, U.A.E. or Russia for starters.

FG were against sanctions on Saddam. Does that mean they supported Saddam's butchering? I don't think so. There has been a desperate level of ignoring putin business relationships to talk about the like of Murphy.

Like with IW, Murphy is a distraction. He's not that powerful is he?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923845#Comment_118923845

Surprised that he didn't manage to squeeze Leo into his whataboutery post.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924288#Comment_118924288

There is a difference between political and trading links.

Everyone in this country has trading links with Russia, after all, we have all used their products, be that oil, gas, coal or some other product.

Only some politicians and parties have showed political support for Russia. They include Murphy, Wallace and Daly, as well as Sinn Fein.

That is the difference.

Whatabouting trading links with Russia, as if that was a signal of political support, demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of how things work.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925157#Comment_118925157

Don't forget investing in Russian companies, letting Putin and his friends use Ireland to filter money through. And keeping up those arrangements despite Putun assassinating people, locking them up and butchering Chechnyans. Thats were your 'trade' put them. More real than political posturing.

The clear lack of understanding relates to you thinking a few politicians liking socialism does more to embolden Putin than the people help to make him rich and maintain that status. If you think Putin would give up all the money to keep the red flag flying here with Murphy, you're deluded.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925477#Comment_118925477

But again, that's lack of understanding on your part, but it does, funnily enough, feed into Murphy's overriding goal which is an insular socialist republic.

Lots of countries we import from have those issues, we don't produce our own oil, so all plastics are sourced from those locations.

If your goal is to cut Ireland off from the world, have the courage of your convictions and say so, whatabouting how normal countries trade doesn't get you out of it (or just further exemplifies your lack of understanding).

putin has gone to war. Those on the left are still supporting him by refusing to vote for sanctions against him and his regime.

And remember that pre-war, and pre-Crimea, there were already existing sanctions against russia that russia wanted gone. And again, guess which groups didn't support those sanctions. As a clue, it wasn't the current government.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928075#Comment_118928075

Less of the underhanded insults.

So you think what Paul Murphy says or does has emboldened Putin more than us doing business with him and funneling his oil money through our country? I respectfully disagree. Continuing to line his pockets while throwing political shapes, while ignoring his murdering and imprisoning of critics, outside of giving out a bit, hasn't marked his card has it? I would suggest he knew we were dependent on his oil and gas and figured we'd turn a blind eye like we did with Chechnya and Crimea. If he had of taken the north east regions and stopped there I doubt NATO or the UN would have blinked.

Nope, a little balance. It's the height of hypocrisy to invest in Putin's Russia and help him funnel his money while he kills any naysayers and runs a dictatorship disguised as a democracy, and then look at the like of Paul Murphy like they played a role. Ridiculous.

Putin didn't care about any previous political posturing while we were investing in Russia and minding his money.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928177#Comment_118928177

Nothing murphy does matters, he's a complete non-entity, what matters is that he's voted against sanctions on russia and is implicitly supporting russia because of that, those that support murphy also fall into that bucket.

Whatabouting again over dealings with russia pre-war, again, if your goal is an insular socialist republic, as you keep skirting around, come out and say it and have a little bit of courage in your stance.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928224#Comment_118928224

I'm simply pointing out how we dealt with Putin has more to do with what he is than an ideology based on politics putin doesn't even follow himself. What putin did was condemned by pretty much everybody. Some differ on sanctions and the militarisation of Europe and moving to US fracking etc.

The move to try make out a few Paul Murphy types played more of a role than the money men is just not believable.

Putin is a capitalist not a socialist.

animalinside

He's a lot more socialist than the United States.

If he was a pure capitalist he wouldn't bother getting involved in costly wars and facing extremely harsh sanctions that would decimate the Russian economy would he.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928363#Comment_118928363

Is he invading Ukraine for the people do you think, or his own ego? The Russian people aren't even allowed discuss it.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928307#Comment_118928307

Brucie Bonus: "Putin is a capitalist not a socialist".

But his capitalism is not what we know as capitalism: based on theft of state assets, not subject to any legal or regulatory oversight. But maybe some leftwing socialists regard capitalism as just a form of kleptocracy, so there's almost no point in arguing with them.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928669#Comment_118928669

But his capitalism is not what we know as capitalism: based on theft of state assets, not subject to any legal or regulatory oversight

Charles Haughey *cough*

He might break and make rules but he's more about making money than 'property is theft'. Anyway,just repeating myself. He didn't become the lovable murdering, dictator who just threatened Finland and Sweden with nukes and loves to make a few Bob by collective farming.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925157#Comment_118925157

Putin doesn't know their names or care if they are in Govt.

He has Scholz, Merkel was one of his best.

Ten of Swords

Mod - Stay on topic please, or has this thread run its course?

xl500

I love you the way he says he only takes the average industrial wage and donates the rest to the party

Then the party employs his wife and pays her more 😡😡😡

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929474#Comment_118929474

Whose wife? Smirker hasn't got a wife, he has a "partner" - so all of the benefits and none of the comitments! Also, that way I assume that no ethical issues will arise in the employment stakes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930315#Comment_118930315

He is married. She’s American.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929392#Comment_118929392

Surely Mr "I was elected to break the Law" would support a fella who gets to the top and then ignores all local and international laws to enrich himself and his buddies and maybe invade a few other countries as well? A bit of the oul' genoicide?

It would be consistent in principle anyways.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930334#Comment_118930334

One more nonsensical nay embarrassing contribution to this thread...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930393#Comment_118930393

Are you not aware that Mr. Murphy thinks he is allowed to break the law?

It would be pretty embarrassing if you are a fan of his and aren't aware

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930472#Comment_118930472

I'm well aware of the statement he made, the context it was made in and indeed what he meant by it though he expressed it a little clumsily. So, no embarrassment here unlike your previous post which is laughingly so!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930329#Comment_118930329

I see, thanks.

Presumably he finds the word 'wife' too bourgeois, so prefers to describe the fair Ms. Spears as his 'partner'?