Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

And no one in Government is offering any solution alternative to lock down when we do get hit with a new variant

other than the whole vaccination thing you mean?

dominatinMC

Silentcorner wrote: »

And no one in Government is offering any solution alternative to lock down when we do get hit with a new variant, which is inevitable.

We've got hit with multiple new variants, so what?

growleaves

dominatinMC wrote: »

Genuinely curious, and not having a go or anything, but do you have any sources for this?
I've seen MM say that "he can't rule them out", but that is just being ultra conservative and cautious - which we know MM is. I don't think I've seen anything as suggestive as a "maybe" to indicate we will be back in lockdown.

Perhaps I shouldn't have paraphrased it.

What he said in the Irish Examiner was that he was "hopeful" there wouldn't be another lockdown this autumn (which is only three to four months away).

That is too ambiguous to me to be celebrating the end of lockdowns.

dominatinMC

growleaves wrote: »

Perhaps I shouldn't have paraphrased it.

What he said in the Irish Examiner was that he was "hopeful" there wouldn't be another lockdown this autumn (which is only three to four months away).

That is too ambiguous to me to be celebrating the end of lockdowns.

I wouldn't read too much into it. If anything he had to make that kind of statement, back then the effectiveness of the vaccines in the real world (not trial data) was less well known, the supply of vaccines was precarious, etc. Now, it's becoming increasingly clear that the vaccines are working, the supply is steady, and we should hit the 80% target. Cases can go up and down thereafter but as hospitals won't be affected, there would be no reason whatsoever for a lockdown of any description..

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

Perhaps I shouldn't have paraphrased it.

What he said in the Irish Examiner was that he was "hopeful" there wouldn't be another lockdown this autumn (which is only three to four months away).

That is too ambiguous to me to be celebrating the end of lockdowns.

It's a different MM you want.

Mystic Meg.

bear1

Question.

Does a fully vaccinated person need to still have a negative PCR test in order to be allowed in?

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

other than the whole vaccination thing you mean?

It will be a new variant.

We will not know how effective the vaccines are in the dead of winter against an inevitable winter surge.

There will be decisions to be made, I'm cautiously optimistic we won't be in lock down next winter, and that the recent variant scare mongering is a tool used to drive the vaccination numbers....I mean if we are embarking on the biggest vaccination program in the history of this state for a jab that won't even get us through one winter surge then we really have to start asking ourselves very awkward questions....especially since the health authorities are not expanding capacity or recommending therapeutics of any kind that I can see.

But it won't take much to convince me we will be back in lock down given what we have witnessed over the last 14 months of ultra conservative risk taking from our health authorities.

Boggles

Silentcorner wrote: »

I mean if we are embarking on the biggest vaccination program in the history of this state for a jab that won't even get us through one winter surge

Who have you been listening to that is parroting that as fact?

Silentcorner

Boggles wrote: »

Who have you been listening to that is parroting that as fact?

When was the last time we tried to vaccinate over 4 million people?

dominatinMC

Silentcorner wrote: »

It will be a new variant.

Of which we've had a few already, and the vaccines still work extremely well. There have been numerous variants so far, and there is nothing to suggest the vaccines don't work, so where is the precedence for this assumption?

Silentcorner wrote: »

We will not know how effective the vaccines are in the dead of winter against an inevitable winter surge.

Why would there be a surge? We'll be vaccinated. What difference does winter make? We'll be indoors, yes, but also vaccinated. And the vaccines work.

Silentcorner wrote: »

There will be decisions to be made, I'm cautiously optimistic we won't be in lock down next winter, and that the recent variant scare mongering is a tool used to drive the vaccination numbers....I mean if we are embarking on the biggest vaccination program in the history of this state for a jab that won't even get us through one winter surge then we really have to start asking ourselves very awkward questions....especially since the health authorities are not expanding capacity or recommending therapeutics of any kind that I can see.

Where is the evidence for this statement?

Silentcorner wrote: »

But it won't take much to convince me we will be back in lock down given what we have witnessed over the last 14 months of ultra conservative risk taking from our health authorities.

Fair enough, but there is nothing in your argument that suggests to me we'll be in lockdown, bar some vague statements

dominatinMC

Silentcorner wrote: »

When was the last time we tried to vaccinate over 4 million people?

HSE vaccinate approximately 1 million people every Winter, we don't hear much about it because it runs smoothly. Now where's the precedent to suggest we can't scale to 4 million? It's going okay so far..

Silentcorner

dominatinMC wrote: »

Of which we've had a few already, and the vaccines still work extremely well. There have been numerous variants so far, and there is nothing to suggest the vaccines don't work, so where is the precedence for this assumption?


Why would there be a surge? We'll be vaccinated. What difference does winter make? We'll be indoors, yes, but also vaccinated. And the vaccines work.


Where is the evidence for this statement?


Fair enough, but there is nothing in your argument that suggests to me we'll be in lockdown, bar some vague statements

If vaccines work, then why did the Government extend it's emergency powers until at least November?

We've had variants since the beginning, I wasn't aware vaccines actually eradicated the virus...I was of the belief that they just protected the individual from serious infection.

WE will have a winter surge of some viral infection next winter, we get one every year....I doubt this year will be any different.

And what...you want me to show you evidence that we have never tried to vaccinate over 4 million people in a matter of months before...how would I even do that?

It is precisely because of vague statements from our Authorities that I'll keep an open mind.

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

I'm cautiously optimistic we won't be in lock down next winter

That is progress indeed. I feel we may have turned a corner.

Silentcorner wrote: »

and that the recent variant scare mongering is a tool used to drive the vaccination numbers

I think most of the scaremongering is confined to this thread.

growleaves

Graham wrote: »

That is progress indeed. I feel we may have turned a corner.

Are you celebrating the end of lockdown then?

I thought I saw you post that there could be another lockdown a week or two ago.

dominatinMC

Silentcorner wrote: »

If vaccines work, then why did the Government extend it's emergency powers until at least November?

I can only assume that they have a contingency plan in place for a very worst case scenario where things go drastically wrong - highly unlikely IMO, but it's nevertheless good to have a plan in place. Of course people are going to jump to conclusions over this, but most rational people will understand that we need some system in place in case the vaccines don't work or something like that. But all indicators are present simply imply that these powers won't be needed.

Silentcorner wrote: »

We've had variants since the beginning, I wasn't aware vaccines actually eradicated the virus...I was of the belief that they just protected the individual from serious infection.

Ya, they don't eradicate it, what's your point? If we're all protected but the virus is still circulating, there is no threat.

Silentcorner wrote: »

WE will have a winter surge of some viral infection next winter, we get one every year....I doubt this year will be any different.

Yes, it could be a flu surge, could be covid surge. That's no reason for a lockdown given that the vast, vast majority will be protected (from Covid that is) and the hospitals will be able to cope. The expected stress the hospitals will experience this winter will be much the same as every other winter, and we never locked down then.

normanoffside

I've noticed that there have been no tweets in almost a week from NPHET members Holohan, Glynn, Nolan etc.
Have they finally got the message that they shouldn't be tweeting out their personal views or have they just lost their log in details in the HSE hack?

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

That is progress indeed. I feel we may have turned a corner.



I think most of the scaremongering is confined to this thread.

Go back to February, when the Taoiseach justified the extension of level 5 lock down until April at least because of a "new virus" (a variant)....which turned out to be completely exaggerated ....who were the ones scoffing at the scaremongering....

Silentcorner

dominatinMC wrote: »

HSE vaccinate approximately 1 million people every Winter, we don't hear much about it because it runs smoothly. Now where's the precedent to suggest we can't scale to 4 million? It's going okay so far..

Honestly, are you even reading my posts?

dominatinMC

Silentcorner wrote: »

Honestly, are you even reading my posts?

Yep, it's a struggle, but I'm managing to do so. Now are you going to respond to my posts and offer some compelling arguments for your belief in continued lockdowns, instead of vague nebulous ramblings?

Graham

growleaves wrote: »

Are you celebrating the end of lockdown then?

No, not yet.

growleaves wrote: »

I thought I saw you post that there could be another lockdown a week or two ago.

Nope

Silentcorner wrote: »

Go back to February

It's not February any more. We've moved on (or most of us have anyway).

Silentcorner

dominatinMC wrote: »

Yep, it's a struggle, but I'm managing to do so. Now are you going to respond to my posts and offer some compelling arguments for your belief in continued lockdowns, instead of vague nebulous ramblings?

I'm not trying to funny here...but if you believe we definitely won't be in lock down next winter, then you are accepting the vague nebulous ramblings of a politician who refuses to say definitively that we will not be in lock down again.

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

I'm not trying to funny here...but if you believe we definitely won't be in lock down next winter, then you are accepting the vague nebulous ramblings of a politician who refuses to say definitively that we will not be in lock down again.

As opposed to your nebulous ramblings that we will ?
He`s a politician, not a fortune teller. The only two certainties in life are taxes and death

dominatinMC

Silentcorner wrote: »

I'm not trying to funny here...but if you believe we definitely won't be in lock down next winter, then you are accepting the vague nebulous ramblings of a politician who refuses to say definitively that we will not be in lock down again.

You're contradicting yourself now. According to your previous posts, if we are to "accept" MM statements to date, we will be in lockdown next Winter. Which is it? :pac:

Silentcorner

charlie14 wrote: »

As opposed to your nebulous ramblings that we will ?
He`s a politician, not a fortune teller. The only two certainties in life are taxes and death

So we agree on something Charlie...we potentially could be back in lock down next winter.

Silentcorner

dominatinMC wrote: »

You're contradicting yourself now. According to your previous posts, if we are to "accept" MM statements to date, we will be in lockdown next Winter. Which is it? :pac:

You aren't reading my posts, or the struggle of understanding them is too much for you....

I've made myself perfectly clear.

While I am cautiously optimistic we won't be in lock down next winter, it wouldn't surprise me if we were...that shouldn't be too difficult to understand.

If you cannot understand what I just said, perhaps should you PM me.

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

I'm not trying to funny here...but if you believe we definitely won't be in lock down next winter

You keep looking for an absolute guarantee from someone, anyone.

You're not going to get one.

Does that mean we're going to see a lock down next winter? Probably not.

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

So we agree on something Charlie...we potentially could be back in lock down next winter.

Where did you get that from?
What is it exactly that you are looking for, the Taoiseach to call around and give you a personal guarantee ?
There was never any way out of this other than by means of vaccines. They are working and there is no reason to believe they will not continue to do so.

What you are doing is attempting to scaremonger just for the sake of it.

PTH2009

Would it hurt anyone in the Government to try stop a little anxiety and give us hope we won't be in another big lockdown again

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

You keep looking for an absolute guarantee from someone, anyone.

You're not going to get one.

Does that mean we're going to see a lock down next winter? Probably not.

charlie14 wrote: »

Where did you get that from?
What is it exactly that you are looking for, the Taoiseach to call around and give you a personal guarantee ?
There was never any way out of this other than by means of vaccines. They are working and there is no reason to believe they will not continue to do so.

What you are doing is attempting to scaremonger just for the sake of it.

I am not looking for any guarantees.

But a winter lock down hasn't been ruled out by anybody...politician or Nphet...in fact the Government just extended it's emergency powers until at least November....and ye accuse me of scare mongering?

How many time's have I said I am cautiously optimistic we won't be...3 times...

It seems, a few of you have a personal issue with me rather then what I am suggesting.

Graham

PTH2009 wrote: »

Would it hurt anyone in the Government to try stop a little anxiety and give us hope we won't be in another big lockdown again

Another one looking for an absolute guarantee