Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Graham

Klonker wrote: »

We're already delaying opening everything. Is that not the point you were trying to make?

Or not rushing it/

Klonker wrote: »

Yeah the premiership match crowds is what caused the spread of the Indian variant, you may let Boris know of your discovery!

You're responding to imaginary claims?

Klonker

Graham wrote: »

You're responding to imaginary claims?[B][/B]

Nope don't think I am.

Graham wrote: »

If the price to pay is no large crowds at matches for a while longer, I'm ok with that.

PTH2009

https://www.buzz.ie/news/irelands-plan-concerts-more-cautious-24303580

gozunda

Klonker wrote: »

We could have even lower rates if we stay indefinitely, in level 5 lockdown, surely thats what we should do if we are measuring covid on just deaths and cases. BTW, how do our deaths compare to others when we take account of the population age demographics? Most are fairly in line I'd guess.

Those masks and antigen tests are very anti science, arent they?

Ah the old fallacy of extremes?

I suppose we could in some alternative reality- but no thats not what was being argued btw. But aside from that i haven't seen that suggested or ever advocated afaik. It remains we have achieved very low case and death rates and we're now opening up as vaccinations increase which in itself is helping suppress numbers further.

You're guessing? Do you have any proof to show that "when we take account of the population age demographics...most are fairly in line"? I've seen nothing to show that's the case.

Btw I gather an attempt to be sarcastic about face masks and antigen tests. But yes scientific opinion regarding face masks has changed since the beginning of the pandemic and antigen tests including expert opinion on the type and method of application are an entire discussion in themselves. But you know that already.

The reason the UK is currently thinking about rowing back on allowing nightclubs etc to re-open is because they decided to not put India on the no-fly list due to economic concerns about trying to get a deal across the line to make Brexit look a little less sh*t.

As a result, they have a lot of daily cases. We shouldn't have that problem.

Football crowds may be here nor there in that, but they probably didn't help.

Sobit1964

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Its not rocket science. Why dont you get this. There is a world wide pandemic.

Its just either managed better in all the other countries hosting the euros, or they are all antivaxers, or they use an 'antivax playbook', or they will be sorry, or they are crazy right wing trump supporters, or our scientists are better than theirs, or no one cares in ireland, or marketing isnt actually a thing, or shut up and be happy you can drink out side you pint swilling animal - you should be ashamed, or variants, or irish cant be trusted to not make a mess, or the bins, or india, or nepal, or the uk, or someone one somewhere said something on youtube, or we didnt qualify so it doesnt matter....

There is a full deck of replies, lets wait for one of the discredited fauchi fans to pop up and explain why you are silly, and how you need to follow the news they read avidly.... hourly.

Hmmm which is a better moniker Fauci fan or Cummings fan? One based in reality, science and detailed understanding of data, the other based on fantasy, pseudoscience and the deliberate misrepresentation of data.

Those who bother to come on this thread to challenge the half baked musings of the permanently outraged are in general in the middle ground of opinion. For me personally among friends family and work colleagues I am definitely more towards the open up side. And this is among a group who personally don’t have any great fear of the virus. That we sometimes seem on the extreme on this thread is that the egregious nonsense posted daily has to be addressed with cold hard reality. There are hard truths about the virus that have to be acknowledged and it is possible to do so while maintaining a positive outlook to opening up and recovery.

Lumen

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://www.buzz.ie/news/irelands-plan-concerts-more-cautious-24303580

"Providing attendees can show proof of full vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test before entry, events of up to 75,000 people will be up and running [in Belgium] from August 13 onwards."

Are there any plans in Ireland to require essentially the digital Covid certificate for events or activities?

prunudo

Lumen wrote: »

"Providing attendees can show proof of full vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test before entry, events of up to 75,000 people will be up and running [in Belgium] from August 13 onwards."

Are there any plans in Ireland to require essentially the digital Covid certificate for events or activities?

A lot of this stems from the refusal to use antigen testing for mass events. Its head in the sand stuff but falls perfectly inline with our usual reactive rather than proactive approach to so many things in life in Ireland.

paddyisreal

prunudo wrote: »

A lot of this stems from the refusal to use antigen testing for mass events. Its head in the sand stuff but falls perfectly inline with our usual reactive rather than proactive approach to so many things in life in Ireland.

You really have to question nphet stance on antigen testing. I think they must have shares in pcr supplier or something !
Aviation, sports, music industries are on their knees but could be back fairly quickly with antigeb testing but Tony says no.
Spain,Holland,UK,France etc all running gigs with decent capacity and we have 500 government lap dogs in the iveagh gardens on a pr stunt to show us all they are doing something.
Yet again we are mile s behind everyone..

prunudo

prunudo wrote: »

A lot of this stems from the refusal to use antigen testing for mass events. Its head in the sand stuff but falls perfectly inline with our usual reactive rather than proactive approach to so many things in life in Ireland.

Specifically looking at Belgium, all test events ran so far seem to have required pcr

paddyisreal

paddyisreal wrote: »

You really have to question nphet stance on antigen testing. I think they must have shares in pcr supplier or something !
Aviation, sports, music industries are on their knees but could be back fairly quickly with antigeb testing but Tony says no.
Spain,Holland,UK,France etc all running gigs with decent capacity and we have 500 government lap dogs in the iveagh gardens on a pr stunt to show us all they are doing something.
Yet again we are mile s behind everyone..

Download festival running with 10k instead of 110k in the uk with requirements for test and no day tickets. Fully back to normal

prunudo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Specifically looking at Belgium, all test events ran so far seem to have required pcr

Why are we so afraid of trying alternatives, pushing the boundaries of what is or can be possible. Just more of the same, conservative over cautious nphet, the recent 'test' events here are evidence of that.

Lumen

prunudo wrote: »

A lot of this stems from the refusal to use antigen testing for mass events. Its head in the sand stuff but falls perfectly inline with our usual reactive rather than proactive approach to so many things in life in Ireland.

Is that a yes or no? I was looking for information not inviting rants.

prunudo

Lumen wrote: »

Is that a yes or no? I was looking for information not inviting rants.

My guess is no, that would being proactive.
But thats an opinion, not quite a rant but probably not the information you were looking for

TefalBrain

Silentcorner wrote: »

Great to see the crowds of people in stadiums in the Euros...it must be great to live in a normal country.

Compare that to the ridiculous "concert" the other day in Iveagh Gardens where they had people miles away from each other outdoors. Cringe

Graham

TefalBrain wrote: »

Compare that to the ridiculous "concert" the other day in Iveagh Gardens where they had people miles away from each other outdoors. Cringe

We're not the only country to run that type of trial event with subsequent trials being further relaxed.

Looking at other countries it's not uncommon to see different approaches being trialled in terms of distancing, pre/post testing etc.

I would have thought the starting of trial events here would be seen as a good thing.

Klonker

Graham wrote: »

We're not the only country to run that type of trial event with subsequent trials being further relaxed.

Looking at other countries it's not uncommon to see different approaches being trialled in terms of distancing, pre/post testing etc.

I would have thought the starting of trial events here would be seen as a good thing.

Let's just take the EU as we all have similar vaccination rates and covid rates are probably similar too. Is there any other countries only beginning to do testing of crowds of 500 in June? At this stage most if not all other countries are already allowing crowds a lot larger than this, never mind testing.

And on the event in the Iveagh Gardens, what exactly did they learn or did they want to learn from it? That event was never going to lead to spread outside of peoples own pods. How is it anyway helpful to when we do eventual have large crowds at events? Could have been a chance to track close contacts through it,in the case of this event there are no close contacts outside of your little pod! I think people just expected something more ambitious. There'll be multiple times that crowd of people in the park today. Again, I think there's people on here defending the indefensible.

niallo27

Graham wrote: »

We're not the only country to run that type of trial event with subsequent trials being further relaxed.

Looking at other countries it's not uncommon to see different approaches being trialled in terms of distancing, pre/post testing etc.

I would have thought the starting of trial events here would be seen as a good thing.

It's the speed of it and the pointless trials that tell us nothing, I get the feeling from your posts we should be happy that we are opening up no matter how slow it is.

Deeper Blue

Can someone explain to me what was learnt and/or accomplished by the Iveagh gardens concert? Serious question.

paddyisreal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Download festival running with 10k instead of 110k in the uk with requirements for test and no day tickets. Fully back to normal

You forgot to mention alcohol allowed, no stupid pods etc. A proper festival with a lower crowd so yes generally back to normal....
Something us here will not see this year.


https://www.pollstar.com/article/spains-crulla-festival-2021-to-go-ahead-with-25000-daily-capacity-in-july-148147

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/06/green-light-for-events-from-end-june-and-the-janssen-vaccine-is-back/


We will as par for the course with our government,nphet be the last country in the world to have festivals, gigs etc back.

paddyisreal

Graham wrote: »

We're not the only country to run that type of trial event with subsequent trials being further relaxed.

Looking at other countries it's not uncommon to see different approaches being trialled in terms of distancing, pre/post testing etc.

I would have thought the starting of trial events here would be seen as a good thing.

Please explain what the iveagh gardens trial achieved ? It was a pr stunt.

Graham

niallo27 wrote: »

It's the speed of it and the pointless trials that tell us nothing, I get the feeling from your posts we should be happy that we are opening up no matter how slow it is.

Would it be fair to say you have no idea what was being measured/trialled/tested at the event?

Am I happy to see trials taking place, yes. Who wouldn't be?

Do I think we should define rushed dates only to see them subsequently pushed back like the UK are currently doing? No.

Restrictions are being relaxed, our timelines don't appear to be under threat, our hospitals are not filling and our vaccination program is progressing.

Marcusm

Graham wrote: »

We're not the only country to run that type of trial event with subsequent trials being further relaxed.

Looking at other countries it's not uncommon to see different approaches being trialled in terms of distancing, pre/post testing etc.

I would have thought the starting of trial events here would be seen as a good thing.

Having trial events is a good thing but the particular event used greater distancing than is required in outdoor hospitality which is open. As such it is a chocolate teapot, evidently fit for purpose but utterly useless. There was little point in holding the event without it involving some aspect (closeness, mixing of people, indoor) that wasn’t also being undertaken in every bar/restaurant in the country.

Unlike for the vaccines themselves, we do not seem to take any account of tests run elsewhere. The Netherlands, I think, had a masked event equivalen to the floor standing area in the Point. Preceded and followed by testing of the cohort. The U.K. had indoor nightclubs were unmasked but with testing in advance and afterwards (admittedly not everyone turned up). Taking this and starting to design an event such as 5,000 in a GAA ground with testing in advance and afterwards (encourage take up of post-testing through tickets/barring from subsequent events) would assist in the outdoor summer for many events (whether sporting or cultural).

The Iveagh Gardens event was as useful as masturbation, personally pleasurable but of no use generally.

daydorunrun

Graham wrote: »

We're not the only country to run that type of trial event with subsequent trials being further relaxed.

Looking at other countries it's not uncommon to see different approaches being trialled in terms of distancing, pre/post testing etc.

I would have thought the starting of trial events here would be seen as a good thing.

You really would defend any stance/action taken by the government/Nphet.
It was a ridiculous civil service ran publicity stunt. Far bigger density of people in parks and city streets for weeks uncontrolled and no spikes- a far better litmus test of the safety of outdoor events.

Graham

Marcusm wrote: »

Having trial events is a good thing but the particular event used greater distancing than is required in outdoor hospitality which is open.

Outdoor hospitality would be unlikely to see anything like the numbers that you'd find at a concert so the comparison isn't particularly valid.

It was an unarguably cautious first trial, what future trials are planned I don't know as can probably be said about most posters commenting.

Hopefully it won't be too relevant anyway as the vaccination program progresses.

Graham

daydorunrun wrote: »

Far bigger density of people in parks and city streets for weeks uncontrolled and no spikes- a far better litmus test of the safety of outdoor events.

Uncontrolled as in there's no way of assessing either the parameters or the results.

Not really much of a 'test'.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

Is that a yes or no? I was looking for information not inviting rants.

Good luck with that!

gozunda

daydorunrun wrote: »

You really would defend any stance/action taken by the government/Nphet. It was a ridiculous civil service ran publicity stunt. Far bigger density of people in parks and city streets for weeks uncontrolled and no spikes- a far better litmus test of the safety of outdoor events.

Quite incredible the number of really excellent and experienced experts who have a huge knowledge of infection management, Ents and crowd management here.

The government are really missing a trick and should just get rid of the likes of Nphet.

We'd have the whole thing licked in no time at all :pac:

But eitherway its simply its a small concert in a small park so I think we can leave off getting upset just at the minute ...

daydorunrun

gozunda wrote: »

Quite incredible the number of really excellent and experienced experts who have a huge knowledge of infection management, Ents and crowd management here.

The government are really missing a trick and should just get rid of the likes of Nphet.

We'd have the whole thing licked in no time at all :pac:

But eitherway its simply its a small concert in a small park so I think we can leave off getting upset just at the minute ...

I’m no expert- but that fact doesn’t preclude me from having an opinion. That event was pretty pathetic- but I won’t, and haven’t lost any sleep over it.

Ironic that you are accusing others of being experts when you are one of those posters who carries an air of authority in every single post!

niallo27

gozunda wrote: »

Quite incredible the number of really excellent and experienced experts who have a huge knowledge of infection management, Ents and crowd management here.

The government are really missing a trick and should just get rid of the likes of Nphet.

We'd have the whole thing licked in no time at all :pac:

But eitherway its simply its a small concert in a small park so I think we can leave off getting upset just at the minute ...

Other countries across Europe with same vaccination levels are miles ahead of us in terms of crowds, do you think personally they are using experts to make these decisions.