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Are Mick Wallace and Clare Daly Irelands greatest shame?

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  • 26-04-2021 9:00am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭


    The nonsense these two have been spouting about the chemical attack in Syria is shocking tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff. Wallace shamed himself and the nation in the European Parliament!!

    SNIP. No insults.
    Post edited by Chips Lovell on


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,055 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    jjmcclure wrote: »
    The nonsense these two have been spouting about the chemical attack in Syria is shocking tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff. Wallace shamed himself and the nation in the European Parliament!!

    They are a reflection of those who voted them in as tds in the first place and gave them the platform for their European aspirations.

    So the people got who they wanted in effect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    Cyrus wrote: »
    They are a reflection of those who voted them in as tds in the first place and gave them the platform for their European aspirations.


    As a Wexford man myself, here's a thing about Wallace that I think is no harm to point out:

    When he first stood, in the 2011 General Election, he swept in with 13,329 votes.

    When he stood for re-election in 2016, his vote fell to 7,917.

    So, just over 40% of people who voted for him first time around ended up deciding over the next five years that "I'm not going to vote for that fella again".

    He knew that if his vote again fell by a significant amount in the next general election, he'd be severely struggling to hold his seat, and so he stood for Europe instead, getting votes from the sort of people who'd first voted for him in Wexford but who hadn't yet seen through him the way Wexford people had.

    And incidentally, another beneficiary of this was Verona Murphy. Prior to the by-election caused by Wallace's move to Europe, she was really no more than a token third candidate on the FG ticket here, behind two relatively strong sitting TDs. She wouldn't have been expected to fare much better than FG's third candidate in 2016, who polled only 1,214 votes.

    But then the by-election came along, she had a platform that she never expected and shot to prominence with certain comments about refugees and asylum seekers, and ended up taking a Dáil seat at the next general election.

    Highly doubtful in my mind if she'd have been in the shake-up at all if that by-election had never taken place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,991 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Dav010 wrote: »
    They are a couple of idiots for sure, but they are lightweights in the shame catagory.

    All the Healy Raes, Willie O Dea, Michael Lowry, Bertie Ahern and Lucinda Creighton all spring to mind as top division Shame TDs


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,713 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mod: 2 below standard posts removed. Please read the charter before posting as insults are not permitted here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭newuser99999


    Can easily think of 20 TDs off the top of my head that are worse


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  • Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭sparksfly


    I'm certainly no fan of these two but I do believe the whistleblowers from the OPCW should be given a hearing. One of them is Dr Brendan Whealan, an Irish senior inspector, who along with Ian Henderson have had long unblemished and distinguished careers with the organisation. I also do not claim to know if their concerns are credible or not but they put their careers on the line when they voiced their concerns. They both allege that senior OPCW officials had radically altered their finished investigation results and rushed out a doctored report which green lighted a missile attack on Syria.
    Their claims deserve an impartial and transparent investigation.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    sparksfly wrote: »
    I'm certainly no fan of these two but I do believe the whistleblowers from the OPCW should be given a hearing. One of them is Dr Brendan Whealan, an Irish senior inspector, who along with Ian Henderson have had long unblemished and distinguished careers with the organisation. I also do not claim to know if their concerns are credible or not but they put their careers on the line when they voiced their concerns. They both allege that senior OPCW officials had radically altered their finished investigation results and rushed out a doctored report which green lighted a missile attack on Syria.
    Their claims deserve an impartial and transparent investigation.

    Hasn’t these allegations be investigated by others and disproved?


  • Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭sparksfly


    godtabh wrote: »
    Hasn’t these allegations be investigated by others and disproved?

    They claim that the OPCW refuse to meet them. Five more ex OPCW officials have joined them to "urge the OPCW to address the cover up of the probe"
    Again I dont know where the truth lies but Whelan has received commendations from the OPCW at the highest level for his work in precious investigations. Why on earth would he and the other whistleblowers throw away their careers for taking an action that brings them no obvious personal gain.
    Maybe they had personal gain. An impartial investigation is needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,197 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    All the Healy Raes, Willie O Dea, Michael Lowry, Bertie Ahern and Lucinda Creighton all spring to mind as top division Shame TDs

    Bit harsh lumping her in with that lot. I didn't agree with her stance on abortion but she was a potential future leader of FG and she gave all that up on a point of principle. She also must have known that it would be extremely difficult to get elected again given her constituency was one of the most pro-choice in the country but she went with it anyway. Not many politicians would do that.

    She then went and created her own party which is no mean feat. The Renua of today is a joke and a monstrosity but when she left politics after losing her seat in 2016, it was basically a respectable failure.

    To lump her into the same category as politicians who were either out and out crooks or have no principles beyond what will get them elected is grossly unfair to her.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,069 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Greatest shame? No, I think the way we have treated our very young, very old and very vulnerable in this State, from independence until recent decades, is our greatest shame.

    That said, Wallace and Daly are indeed a massive embarrassment, to themselves, the Country and the EU Parliament.

    Even though I wouldn't agree with Daly's politics, I would have respected her work and her public representation. That is, until she met up with Mr Pink and got drawn into the orbit of his circus, his ineptitude and his hypocrisy.

    That recorded piece they did in Baghdad was horrifyingly cringe making in its naivety and its ignorance. They should be censured by the EU Parl for even going in the current climate, let alone their choice of group to advocate when there.

    I have strong Wexford connections and while they would mostly be long time FG and Labour people, they are truly mortified that Mick Wallace is a countyman of their's.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,197 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Cyrus wrote: »
    They are a reflection of those who voted them in as tds in the first place

    Whatever about Mick Wallace, I don't believe Clare Daly had any red flags prior to being elected as a TD (relative to other hard-left TDs). As a TD she shone a light on a lot of areas that other TDs didn't seem to be interested. She also seemed like a hard worker and probably gave a voice to lot of similar people in her constituency. For those reasons I wouldn't bash anyone for voting for her in 2011, 2016 or even in the European election in 2019.

    I am absolutely disgusted with her now though. If there's one thing that I cannot stand it is people who have blind spots for certain authoritarians just because of their political leanings or who those authoritarians oppose. Her massive blind spot toward Putin is downright weird. The man is literally killing his greatest critic at the moment (the latest of many critics to face mortal danger) but whenever anyone criticizes him she engages in whataboutery so that she can instead sound off on the EU and the USA.

    The EU and especially the USA, have plenty of problems. However if you look at what goes on in Russia and your instinct is to deflect onto the problems of the EU/USA in response then there is something severely broken in your judgement.

    Then there's all the tawdry affair of employing her ex-husband and also Mick Wallace's son despite that going against the spirit of EU rules to try and prevent nepotism.

    And don't even get me started on that middle east trip....

    I hope herself, Wallace and Ming all lose their seats in 2024 but I'm not optimistic since most Irish people don't care about who we send to the EU.


  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Our present government has decided leaking confidential documents to friends is a nothing-issue



    Not one senior government member even expressed disquiet at it,fcuk knows what else they are at?......couldnt imagine wallace and daly agreeing to this course of action by our rulers


  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭Fotish




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭touts


    Is it possible to do a recall election? We need these two dragged out of office before they bring the country into any more disrepute.

    Pair of absolute ****s



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,991 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Absolutely nuts. Any left leaning politicians who think Putin or Russia are on the same side really need to get their head out of the 1920s and learn about actual politics



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    sure wasn't Wallace looking for the early release of the Omagh bomber on 'humanitarian grounds' 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,304 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Thread Title: Are Mick Wallace and Clare Daly Irelands greatest shame?

    To a certain extent ; yes (not gonna get into them being the 'Greatest of all time' - another discussion)

    The fact is i would give the above an opportunity to come around over the coming days. If you had told me a week ago that

    • Russia would full on militarily invade the Ukraine
    • A large Russian Army would be en route to the Capital(possibly an army group considering the word on Sky News is that secondary Russian movements towards Kiev from several directions are underway)
    • The western world (including Switzerland normally 100% Neutral) would sanction Russia
    • Finland is considering joining NATO (and IMHO is right to do so)
    • Russian propaganda would be as vile as it has been
    • Putin is in effect threatening Nuclear war
    • The EU would be supplying weapons (justifiable but unprecedented)

    had you predicted the above, i would have assumed a degree of war mongering and nonsensical prediction; We are where we are, its happened, its a dark new day. Wallace and Daly should certainly be given the chance to respond. Granted they remained in their current position opinion-wise, far too long. But a chance is open for them to realize whats happening, and change their position. Fight Bad ideas with Good Ideas, and change minds

    However, up to now - yes. They are in my view, a disgrace

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,304 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I should also state - i live in North Co Dublin, in Clare's constituency. If she does remain entrenched in her position: (below tweet less than 3 hours old)

    I will never vote for her again. I am a political 'anorak' and take every opportunity to discuss topical issues and current events - particularly come election time - and i will not vote for her, and will actively highlight her nonsense at every available opportunity. While some might say that the above tweet is conciliatory to Ukraine, i do not view it as enough. Crying no to war and 'EU Militarism' - at a time like this - disgusts me. The EU have astounded me in their move to supply weapons and military aid to Ukraine. And i salute them wholeheartedly

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    Effectively they're advocating a policy of appeasement.

    No I amn't ashamed as I have never voted for either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    The worst politicians we have are the ones that are voted in under the guise of one particular party but then switch party/go independent WITHOUT resigning their seat.

    At least with Wallace & Daly you know what you're getting.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,197 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    My memory of her as a TD was that she was diligent and thorough and fought for fairness and the poorest in society. In particular I admired her support of Maurice McCabe against the Gardai. Was there any record of her being a Putin appeaser in the Dail? I presume there's plenty of EU-bashing evidence but that was 10-a-penny after the Troika/Bond holders era of Irish politics.

    I guess what I'm asking is - as a former constituent could you see her turning into what she currently is (an appeaser of autocrats) - or was she always like that but maybe didn't speak about those issues as much in the past?



  • Posts: 864 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    She seems to have lost the plot entirely when she got into bed with Wallace, literally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Let’s be thankful they are unlikely ever to reproduce.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,304 ✭✭✭liamtech


    its a very difficult question - Brief Segway; I'm a Leftie, Pro European Union, Anti Brexit etc etc - I have voted for Labour, SocDem, PbP, Indo and SF - my stance is that i never vote for FF/FG or independents associated with these - so i freely admit: I have voted for Clare and had a lot of respect for her

    • 'Was there any record of her being a Putin appeaser in the Dail?' - Nothing that i would have found particularly belligerent beyond being Anti Western, and anti USFP during the 'War on Terror' - freely admit i was on side with her during the conflict. As to any memorable 'pro Putin' stuff - not that i recall - happy to be proved wrong on this but in all honesty i think we need to draw a line when it comes to historical interactions with the Russian Regime. yes people gave interviews with RT, and encouraged a 'relationship' with Russia - this was all Par for the Course - that was then, this is now. IMHO
    • 'I guess what I'm asking is - as a former constituent could you see her turning into what she currently is (an appeaser of autocrats) - or was she always like that but maybe didn't speak about those issues as much in the past?' - Clare was always, IMHO, about being 'anti establishment (far more than was appropriate to me, if im honest) - and these attitudes do tend to involve saying conciliatory things about states like VietNam, Russia, etc etc - and tending to highlight the 'evil nature' of attacks/wars waged against said states
    • However reading between the lines - if you are asking me did i see this coming!? Not really - certainly she is an 'against the grain' politician - but accusing the EU of 'Militarism', and NATO of 'War Mongering' at a time when, Russia is invading a state, and murdering its citizens - No i assumed she (and her like) would back off - consider a response - and perhaps even stay out of it -

    I await a live interview at this stage - preferably on RTE or Newstalk - where she is asked direct questions - and if given what has happened - she blames NATO, the EU, etc etc - then we are done


    All IMHO of course -

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Administrators Posts: 53,808 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Her approach appears to be that if everyone was just nice nothing bad would ever happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,031 ✭✭✭Patser


    Hasn't Daly resigned from and formed, then quit multiple parties? She was originally elected for Socialist Party(2011), then quit to form United Left(2013), then quit to become an Independent 4 Change (2016)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,304 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Yes its effectively the case - she has always been spiritually independent, and never tends to align with parties, beyond momentary alliances of convenience - She is anti establishment first and foremost - its almost as if the establishment being on side with the Ukraine 100% (morally ethically politically this is correct in my view) - but she is therefore against or at least, fence sitting -

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,197 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I await a live interview at this stage - preferably on RTE or Newstalk - where she is asked direct questions - and if given what has happened - she blames NATO, the EU, etc etc - then we are done

    I predict that in any interview she will trot out a generic sentence condemning Russia before quickly pivoting to talk about the people that she really wants to blame: NATO and the EU.

    Just over 12 months ago she went on the Irish Times politics podcast. It's worth a listen. They really grilled her on her support of Russia and she just deflected and engaged in whataboutism in response.





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    They do represent a certain body of opinion in Ireland who if you talk to them will say 'it's complicated', 'There's two sides to everything ' or 'what about the Donbas '.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,304 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Its the common trope of using 'Whataboutery' - You say the war is evil. The mention Donas. You say Putin is a monster. They say 'NAZI's in the Donbas' - Your say UKRAINE - they respond Iraq. I used to think the DUP were the masters of this art, but talented people are popping up everywhere

    False Equivalencies are everywhere during this period - All we can do is remain firm in our stance

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



This discussion has been closed.
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