Phoenix Park littering

patob

Park was in a terrible state today. Bins overflowing, glass bottles cans and coffee cups strewn around randomly and people incapable of bringing their rubbish home. Where were the OPW rangers and Gardai?
https://twitter.com/deric_tv/status/1386231728981872640?s=19

patob

More of it at the triangle North Road.

Larbre34

patob wrote: »

Where were the OPW rangers and Gardai?

Up to their t1ts with similar shyte all over the Park and all over the City.

FionnK86

I thought OPW did great work, bins on greens where I was and people generally respecting leave no trace.

greasepalm

Bins need to be bigger to take more or more bins in use.
Dirty Dublin is indeed dirty and all because you cant think of how a simple thing grows and remember were still in Covid and spreading your cast offs does not impress me. Maybe we can empty a garbage truck in their front garden when we find out the culprits.

KevRossi

No bins, no control, no enforcement.


We need a huge amount of new bins and a regular, scheduled rota of emptying them. Pay staff overtime at weekends and busy periods if necessary.

Litter wardens are needed. Undercover. Wait till someone throws their stuff on the ground, €150 for everyone in the group or €1,000 in court (max is €4,000). Have Gardai there to ensure the details they give are correct. Do this a few times every weekend, publicise it, and 95% of the problem disappears straight away.

85603

no enforcement, as with everything else.

rules of the road, false claims, false accusations, petty criminality, top level criminality, personal economic irresponsibility.

just do what you want basically. there are no repercussions.

Gerlad

Should be few huge wheelie bins at each exits with signs in/out don’t forget your rubbish

Strumms

Park was wrecked here too, people having picnics and drinking sessions on the pitches over the weekend , a shîtload of stuff just left there... anybody wanting to train or play a match ? Impossible,, the fûck I’d be cleaning it up... I’m a goalkeeper not anybody else’s keeper...

There will be cctv going in soon which is good news.

Strumms

Gerlad wrote: »

Should be few huge wheelie bins at each exits with signs in/out don’t forget your rubbish

I don’t think a sign will make a blind bit of difference to the urchins...

BorneTobyWilde

This is why Japan banned bins. Geez if you put a bin in a field 500 miles from anyone, and leave it there an hour it will be full.
Japan have no bins, and hence has none of this mess.

Oranage2

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

This is why Japan banned bins. Geez if you put a bin in a field 500 miles from anyone, and leave it there an hour it will be full.
Japan have no bins, and hence has none of this mess.

Same with Taiwan, one of the cleanest places I've seen and not a bin to be seen. People take care of their own personal rubbish ie take it home themselves.

Caranica

Precisely, you brought it there, take it home! It's education and culture that's needed, not bins.

Hopefully if the deposit and return system is introduced it will really help deal with litter from drinks. Needs to include glass and not just plastic and cans though. Monetise litter and see how quickly the problem disappears

VonLuck

Some of those circumstances can arise because of birds going at an overflowing bin and strewing rubbish everywhere.

I also wouldn't judge someone too harshly on putting rubbish beside a bin. I think they're well intentioned, but ultimately should have brought the rubbish home with them.

No excuse for general littering and I'm shocked at how prevalent it is. Policing or fines aren't solutions. It's a moral issue. People need to be raised with pride of place and empathy for others. If the only reason people aren't littering is a fear of being fined I think we've failed as a society!

Hurrache

VonLuck wrote: »

I also wouldn't judge someone too harshly on putting rubbish beside a bin.

They basically threw their rubbish on the grown, they deserve to be judged in absolute harshness.

VonLuck

Hurrache wrote: »

They basically threw their rubbish on the grown, they deserve to be judged in absolute harshness.

Again I don't think it's so black and white. They brought their rubbish to the bin with the intent of disposing of it properly. The bin was full so they left it at the point where rubbish gets collected.

I'm not saying that's the right way of doing things but I'm sure they were well meaning. Reminds me of that old adage - "We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behaviour".

Strumms

If the bins are full, take it to one that isn’t.

The law doesn’t allow littering full stop. There is no asterisked law. *‘if the bins are full that’s not your fault so litter away’.

You have arms, pockets, remove your rubbish... if you go to the park for a picnic, bring a black bin liner too...takes up no room, it’s not difficult.

greasepalm

If the beaches and parks are not cleaned up where will you go next??

begbysback

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

This is why Japan banned bins. Geez if you put a bin in a field 500 miles from anyone, and leave it there an hour it will be full.
Japan have no bins, and hence has none of this mess.

Or here’s an idea, maybe actually put in more bins, bigger bins even, and maybe clear the bins out more regularly.

There’s a vast shortage of bins in the park, we need more bins, not the bin police

VonLuck

Strumms wrote: »

If the bins are full, take it to one that isn’t.

The law doesn’t allow littering full stop. There is no asterisked law. *‘if the bins are full that’s not your fault so litter away’.

You have arms, pockets, remove your rubbish... if you go to the park for a picnic, bring a black bin liner too...takes up no room, it’s not difficult.

No one is claiming there's a law that allows littering

Caranica

People bring what turns into litter to the Park. What makes it litter is that they don't take it home again. We don't need bigger bins or more bins. We need people to cop on.

Treppen

begbysback wrote: »

Or here’s an idea, maybe actually put in more bins, bigger bins even, and maybe clear the bins out more regularly.

There’s a vast shortage of bins in the park, we need more bins, not the bin police

More bins means more littering. Unless you double the amount of bin collectors.


It's simple, just bring your rubbish home. Chances are it's probably recyclable, but once it goes into a street bin then it's straight to landfill.

Why can't people bring their rubbish home?

People who dump around bins are just scummy.

People who dump wherever they like are scummy.

More bins will do nothing for the above two types.

begbysback

Treppen wrote: »

More bins means more littering. Unless you double the amount of bin collectors.


It's simple, just bring your rubbish home. Chances are it's probably recyclable, but once it goes into a street bin then it's straight to landfill.

Why can't people bring their rubbish home?

People who dump around bins are just scummy.

People who dump wherever they like are scummy.

More bins will do nothing for the above two types.

First sign of the psychological impact of long term lockdown appearing on this thread.

a) putting rubbinsh in bins is not littering
b) yes, double the amount of bin collectors if there are going to be more people in the park who would like to dispose of their rubbish
c) it seems the people who littered disposed of their rubbish beside the bin, so it looks at least they made an effort to get to a bin, only for it to be full - why make it difficult for people to dispose of rubbish?

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

This is why Japan banned bins. Geez if you put a bin in a field 500 miles from anyone, and leave it there an hour it will be full.
Japan have no bins, and hence has none of this mess.

The reason for very few bins in Japan is due initially, as an anti terrorism measure, in response to the Sarin Gas Attack 1995.

Treppen

Treppen wrote: »

More bins means more littering. Unless you double the amount of bin collectors.


It's simple, just bring your rubbish home. Chances are it's probably recyclable, but once it goes into a street bin then it's straight to landfill.

Why can't people bring their rubbish home?

People who dump around bins are just scummy.

People who dump wherever they like are scummy.

More bins will do nothing for the above two types.

'Why can't people bring their rubbish home'. Key question.

When we break the back on that one, and correct the behaviour, then in several decades, (maybe), people might actually segregate their waste correctly and responsibly.

Still - some idiots (despite information available from Repak, from recycling operatives, from national broadcaster (RTE)) are dumping greasy food packaging into paper recycling....face-f- palm.

But that's the finer details while we are still at the 'stop littering, ya waste of space' stage

VonLuck

howmuchunder wrote: »

Still - some idiots (despite information available from Repak, from recycling operatives, from national broadcaster (RTE)) are dumping greasy food packaging into paper recycling....face-f- palm.

In everyone's defence, there is conflicting information out there for all recyclables. If you Google "can you recycle pizza boxes" the top result is "Pizza boxes are recyclable, even when stained or greasy as long as they are empty."

The main takeaway (no pun intended) is that for systems to be effective, they have to be simple. If there are more bins, more people will use them. Very difficult to change a person's ingrained laziness and complete lack of concern for the environment.

B.A._Baracus

What is a 'Guardian of the Park Scheme' anyways?
Make a bunch of curtain twitchers think they are litter wardens and go around annoying people? :pac:

D3V!L

This was happening in Donabate at the weekend. There are 3 bins on the crossroads as you come into the village. One beside the takeaway and ice cream shop was empty and is a solar trash compactor. The others, two normal bins right across the road had piles and piles of rubbish beside them. People were taking their food and sitting in the park on the crossroads and were too lazy to walk back across the road to the empty bin.

Hurrache

VonLuck wrote: »

so they left it at the point where rubbish gets collected.

Which was on the ground. Councils will always collect illegal dumping once they're aware of it. Is it ok if I use the local ditch as I know it's going to be collected anyway?

VonLuck

Hurrache wrote: »

Which was on the ground. Councils will always collect illegal dumping once they're aware of it. Is it ok if I use the local ditch as I know it's going to be collected anyway?

Don't be so obtuse. Surely you can see the difference between someone leaving rubbish at a designated point of rubbish collection and someone throwing rubbish into a ditch.

People who leave rubbish at an overflowing bin clearly brought it there to dispose of it correctly and felt the next best thing is to leave it with the rest of the piled up rubbish.

I'm not claiming it's right, but to say that they're on par with illegal dumpers is an extreme stretch.

Hurrache

Are you saying that the ground around or nearby bins are designated rubbish collection points? You either put your rubbish in the bin, or you don't.

There's no allowance for throwing things on the ground. Anyone that think it's acceptable to throw rubbish on the ground just because it's near a rubbish bin is an almighty idiot. It's no different than throwing a bag of rubbish from your car onto the side of the road.

VonLuck

Hurrache wrote: »

Are you saying that the ground around or nearby bins are designated rubbish collection points? You either put your rubbish in the bin, or you don't.

There's no allowance for throwing things on the ground. Anyone that think it's acceptable to throw rubbish on the ground just because it's near a rubbish bin is an almighty idiot. It's no different than throwing a bag of rubbish from your car onto the side of the road.

I explicitly said that they shouldn't do it.

I'm sure most of the people who do it don't even realise they're doing something wrong and treating them like they've committed the most heinous of crimes helps no one.

Long term solution is education. Short term solution is more bins. Simple as.

Treppen

begbysback wrote: »

First sign of the psychological impact of long term lockdown appearing on this thread.

a) putting rubbinsh in bins is not littering

I never said it was.

begbysback wrote: »

b) yes, double the amount of bin collectors if there are going to be more people in the park who would like to dispose of their rubbish

That's never going to happen, and anyway if it did do you think it will cut down on rubbish being dumped? I don't.

begbysback wrote: »

c) it seems the people who littered disposed of their rubbish beside the bin, so it looks at least they made an effort to get to a bin, only for it to be full - why make it difficult for people to dispose of rubbish?

Made an effort??

Look at all these great citizens making an effort, you really think 2 extra bins in this shot would have left the location spotless :pac:

CaptureDelete.JPG

Maybe they should leave skips all around the countryside too to stop the fly tippers there!... maybe put 2 beside each other because there wouldn't be enough.

bins attract rubbish.

Just bring it home with you. and sort it/recycle it.

https://www.thejournal.ie/dcc-removes-public-bins-illegal-dumping-491596-Jun2012/

VonLuck

Treppen wrote: »

Just bring it home with you. and sort it/recycle it.

That's not really providing a solution though. It's like saying that you've found a way to prevent theft - just don't steal!

Treppen

VonLuck wrote: »

That's not really providing a solution though. It's like saying that you've found a way to prevent theft - just don't steal!

Wat?

I have found a way to prevent theft... Just Don't leave your front door open

Your analogy is bad and you should feel bad.

VonLuck

Treppen wrote: »

Wat?

I have found a way to prevent theft... Just Don't leave your front door open

Your analogy is bad and you should feel bad.

You're the one with the bad analogy I'm afraid! You originally said that the individual should bring home their rubbish in order to stop them being a litterer. A like for like situation is that an individual should not enter someone else's home in order to stop them being a thief.

What you've followed up with is essentially that the onus is on the victim to prevent theft! I guess that's like saying don't give people packaging that will enable them to litter? To be honest I'm not really sure what your analogy is there

Treppen

VonLuck wrote: »

You're the one with the bad analogy I'm afraid! You originally said that the individual should bring home their rubbish in order to stop them being a litterer. A like for like situation is that an individual should not enter someone else's home in order to stop them being a thief.

What you've followed up with is essentially that the onus is on the victim to prevent theft! I guess that's like saying don't give people packaging that will enable them to litter? To be honest I'm not really sure what your analogy is there

Likewise.

You could also argue if you had more houses then burglary rates would go down!

More bins, littering goes down.

What's the big deal about bringing home your rubbish? Why can't you do it.

VonLuck

Treppen wrote: »

Likewise.

You could also argue if you had more houses then burglary rates would go down!

More bins, littering goes down.

What's the big deal about bringing home your rubbish? Why can't you do it.

Yes, more bins. That was my suggestion, but you were saying that everyone should just bring their rubbish home!

The big deal about bringing home your rubbish is that there are plenty of lazy and careless people out there. Simply telling them to bring their rubbish home won't change anything. That takes years of education from a young age and even a cultural change. Bins are the temporary solution to the problem and education is the long term goal.

Treppen

VonLuck wrote: »

Yes, more bins. That was my suggestion, but you were saying that everyone should just bring their rubbish home!

The big deal about bringing home your rubbish is that there are plenty of lazy and careless people out there. Simply telling them to bring their rubbish home won't change anything. That takes years of education from a young age and even a cultural change. Bins are the temporary solution to the problem and education is the long term goal.

Ya I totally agree, plenty of lazy and careless people out there who will dump no matter how many bins the are.

I remember back in the 80s we watched a cartoon in primary school , the tag line was "litterbug, litterbug shame on you." Needless to say we went INSANE shouting the jingle at locals and random strangers outside the school, got obsessed and took licence plate numbers of people chucking stuff out the window passing in cars. Principal passed on the plates to the gardaí and all :pac:

mrcheez

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Japan have no bins, and hence has none of this mess.

Yes but the Japanese take personal responsibility seriously. They would feel ashamed to make others uncomfortable due to their actions.

It's a cultural thing that would be absent here.

In other words, here, if no bins then people would fling their rubbish in the Liffey or just anywhere.

IngazZagni

begbysback wrote: »

Or here’s an idea, maybe actually put in more bins, bigger bins even, and maybe clear the bins out more regularly.

There’s a vast shortage of bins in the park, we need more bins, not the bin police

This isn’t always true. The council put loads of extra bins in the grand canal dock area this past weekend. They all filled up and the rubbish around the area was the worst I’ve ever seen in that area the next morning. With that said we still do need an adequate amount of bins evenly spread around.

Likewise I mentioned here a while back about a privately operated bin which overflowed at weekends creating so much litter. It was removed and the litter issue has disappeared. Bins can create a litter issue in the immediate vicinity of the bin.

There’s definitely a cultural problem on this. Also folks. Crush your cans, coffee cups and pizza boxes. Make space for others to dispose of their rubbish.

Finally, seagulls. Those damn things are also massive litter bugs. They can easily pick at rubbish bags and throw rubbish all over the place. I think people underestimate the amount of litter created by them. We need some anti seagull bin bags or something.

rolling boh

There is a large enough portion of people with no civic pride so see no issue with throwing rubbish about especially with so many takeaway shops cafes etc .Some who go in cars may bring home their mess but people just meeting up and buying drink to hang around parks beaches etc are no way going to trouble themselves by bringing their stuff home .Also with the council giving up on home waste any available bin or skip will be filled with domestic rubbish private bin collections can be exspensive so that will be given as an excuse .

kravmaga

Hi OP,

Its not just the Phoenix Park, Fairview park was in a mess last week also, Clontarf seafront same, St Annes Park same.

The problem here is the general public, who just dump their rubbish anywhere and everywhere.

Its a behavioural problem , people here dont seem to respect their environment, this is a family and parent education/ up bringing , good manners.

We need more enforcement , not enough littler wardens , not enough park rangers.

People throw cigarette butts out of their cars, fly tipping is also rampant since covid started.

Observed a guy last week driving a top of the range Audi 192 reg in my local Applegreen service station , taking 2 black bags out of his boot and transfer the contents to the Applegreen bins as I was topping up on air and water.

Said it to him, was told to mind my own fcuking business.

Reported it to staff in the service station as there was CCTV covering the area.

He said , oh thats happening all the time since Covid 19 in March 2020.

So as I cant generalise but why are the general public littering so much.

You dont see this in Singapore, the place is spotless.

mrcheez

kravmaga wrote: »

Observed a guy last week driving a top of the range Audi 192 reg in my local Applegreen service station , taking 2 black bags out of his boot and transfer the contents to the Applegreen bins as I was topping up on air and water.

Reported it to staff in the service station as there was CCTV covering the area.

He said , oh thats happening all the time since Covid 19 in March 2020.

huh? That doesn't make sense, why would Covid 19 mean people don't use their own bins?

kravmaga wrote: »

You dont see this in Singapore, the place is spotless.

Culture.. see my earlier comment re Japan

kravmaga

Treppen wrote: »

I never said it was.

CaptureDelete.JPG

Looks like a scene from a 3rd World country, its very sad that people have no civic pride anymore.

Larbre34

Before anyone says it, Singapore don't cane people for littering. But they do cane people. Until their arse meat opens up. That creates something of an obedient culture down through the scale of offences, as you might imagine.

Summary litter fines range from 300 to 10,000 dollars.

All that said, Singapore is a stifling place to live in more ways than one. I'd chose Ireland any day, littering fools and all.

Strumms

mrcheez wrote: »

Yes but the Japanese take personal responsibility seriously. They would feel ashamed to make others uncomfortable due to their actions.

It's a cultural thing that would be absent here.

In other words, here, if no bins then people would fling their rubbish in the Liffey or just anywhere.

Personal responsibility here by some is absolutely frowned upon, gone awol, it’s about as fashionable as lice ... next you’ll have someone having been arrested for theft of xxx euros of groceries from tesco.. “ there were no signs to say I couldn’t steal, so it’s the shops fault, AND I’m going to sue both the shop and An Garda Siochana because of the stress...my mental health, I should be given the GPO and a lifetime of free groceries as compensation”

People littering in parks need sorting. Get the Gardai and courts to make examples of them.

A nice monetary fine and a week in a jumpsuit with a sweeping brush for company.

Treppen

mrcheez wrote: »

Yes but the Japanese take personal responsibility seriously. They would feel ashamed to make others uncomfortable due to their actions.

It's a cultural thing that would be absent here.

In other words, here, if no bins then people would fling their rubbish in the Liffey or just anywhere.

The point is... People are doing that anyway, bins or no bins.

mrcheez

Treppen wrote: »

The point is... People are doing that anyway, bins or no bins.

Not really, I think the majority of people are putting them in bins when the bins are empty, but then when the bins are full they fling them "in the proximity" of the bins... in a sort of half-hearted attempt at well meaning (cuz sure it's easy for the bin men to collect them off the ground if they're near the bins)

Treppen

mrcheez wrote: »

Not really, I think the majority of people are putting them in bins when the bins are empty, but then when the bins are full they fling them "in the proximity" of the bins... in a sort of half-hearted attempt at well meaning (cuz sure it's easy for the bin men to collect them off the ground if they're near the bins)

Ya I agree, although if you but an extra bin beside that one would it solve the problem?

Treppen

Treppen wrote: »

Ya I agree, although if you but an extra bin beside that one would it solve the problem?

Ok so.. update... Extra New bins are really solving the littering issue. Maybe we need double the amount of extra new bins.