Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094119#Comment_119094119

Its a conspiracy...

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094229#Comment_119094229

They are working as intended. There's been no "spin".

Again, you haven't "spotted something" everyone else has missed. You are just engaging in extreme pedantry and semantics to formulate an axe to grind against vaccines. Because it's your own unique creation, so you can and do subjectively reject any explanations.

You are only presenting it here because you know you wouldn't get away with it on other threads. I remember you claiming in this thread earlier that these vaccines weren't vaccines and other whataboutery.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094242#Comment_119094242

So again, not for the first time, who is doing this spin. Please list the main players or organizations you believe were behind this?

Again not for the first time, we've been through this, I referenced EMA end of year review as an example. It's everywhere including in this thread, as we've just spent ten pages of posters telling me the vaccines are working as approved because they are effective at reducing the severity of symptoms in confirmed Covid cases.

Also, what do you mean by "undermines"? You've already acknowledge that the vaccines are both safe and effective and that no one was lying about their safety and effectiviness.

I have acknowledged that the vaccines are effective at reducing the severity of the symptoms if you catch Covid, not that they are effective at preventing you from catching Covid which was they are approved for.

I think the failure to update the approval to reflect this has the potential to undermine public trust in medical regulators and vaccinations in general. I think that is a bad thing.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094293#Comment_119094293

They are working as intended.

Not if they were intended to prevent Covid. They're doing a terrible job at that.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094314#Comment_119094314

If it's everywhere, who's behind it? Who's spinning things?

And yes, the vaccines are effective at both reducing symptoms and reducing your chances of catching covid.

There's no failure to update anything, as you're going by your own definition of what approval means and what is required.

Why do you believe that they aren't updating the approval to your standards?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094183#Comment_119094183

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094189#Comment_119094189

You're just repeating something you don't understand over and over, which has been explained to you in a simple to understand manner.

Patronizing doesn't come into it at this point. This is wilful ignorance on your part.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094244#Comment_119094244

I see you've selected to spin further into a blank stupor, brave choice.

The CFR for SARS-COV2 is about 0.5%, it was closer to 2% before vaccines. With Omicron it's even lower than 0.5% for the vaccinated.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094338#Comment_119094338

They are doing a fantastic job against a mutating and evolving virus.

I'm sorry you have chosen not to understand any of the explanations here, but that's entirely your choice. It's probably about 75% of content on this forum. Individuals bait and manipulate others into responses they'll never accept in order to feel superior. It's a type of narcissism.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094395#Comment_119094395

One thing nobody has explained is how can a vaccine approved to prevent a disease be said to be working if it fails to prevent the disease?

I expect I'll be waiting a long time for a credible explanation for that.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094526#Comment_119094526

Ok, let's be super patronising here.

If I have a group of 100 vaccinated people.

And a group of 100 unvaccinated people.

And I send them out into the world during a pandemic.

And 50 of the unvaccinated people get infected and have all sorts of symptoms up to death over 3 months.

And 10 of the vaccinated people get infected and have all sorts of symptoms up to death over 3 months.

I have prevented 40 cases by getting those 100 people vaccinated.

These figures were borne out in case numbers and hospitalisations.

Is that dumbed down enough for you?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094578#Comment_119094578

I get those numbers, simple to understand, hurrah for preventing the 40 cases.

What about these numbers?

If I have a group of 100 vaccinated people.

And a group of 100 unvaccinated people.

And I send them out into the world during a pandemic.

And 12 of the unvaccinated people get infected.

And 37 of the vaccinated people get infected.

How many cases have you prevented getting those 100 people vaccinated?

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094393#Comment_119094393

Omnicron is way less lethal than the previous variants. And funny how the vaccines weren't synthesized for the omnicron. Even the expert's suggested that omnicron was less severe.

You can keep up with your numbers etc, but I'm not going to change the fact that the vaccines didn't work for stopping people from catching COVID.

But the other traditional vaccines work much better, too bad that these one's didn't work. That's what I call a shot in the dark. Get it shot in the dark :D

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119093465#Comment_119093465

No not really. As previously mentioned most of the moderates migrated here because they got banned from the main threads for even daring to suggest that the vaccines were not great at reducing transmission. I got banned without warning for such a massive act of misinformation. It is quite amusing to see the massive anti vaxxers and the extreme pro vaxxers fight it out here, Such similarities between so polar opposites in their views is interesting. There is no compromise here. By the way the moderates are here, not that they have a conspiracy, its just that they have been shut down in other threads. Again I liken it to GMO. GMO does not kill anyone daily. It has been declared safe by numerous bodies. Do i trust it? No. If I am out and about will i eat GMO food. Yes. Am I an anti gmo. Jury is out but as an organic farmer and an engineer I would much rather go organic. Time will tell but its not looking good in general for the planet at the moment.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094791#Comment_119094791

Nice to have your own farm. You probably studied horticulture or agriculture. I know what goes into GMOs and hydroponics. Have you seen the roots on GMO plant and on an organic plant. The difference between both is staggering. I only have heritage plants in my own garden, the bee's ignore the manipulated flowers. When I heard about them messing around with RNA technology with the new vaccines I said no way.

Imagine eating potatoes which were sprayed with roundup or wheat sprayed with broadleaf FFS

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094884#Comment_119094884

Yes indeed. I have studied both. King Mob and co probably have never seen the production of bread using gmo grain that has been sprayed with Roundup to ripen it but is very 'safe' according to our scientists.

When you spray it you have to use full ppe. A respirator mask and full precautions. A known carcinogen. And then a week later the crop you have sprayed it on is fit to eat. The mind boggles

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094789#Comment_119094789

For the unvaccinated, the CFR for Omicron is about the same as the original variant, Delta had a higher CFR but luckily it was outcompeted by Omicron.

The spike protein that the vaccines target has stayed relatively stable through all the variants which has allowed the vaccines to remain effective, this is one of the reasons the spike protein was specifically targeted by vaccines.

But if you're on on here and didn't know this (as it's pretty much COVID vaccines 101), you're either being wilfully ignorant like hometruths or deliberately trying to mislead others.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094754#Comment_119094754

In those cases the vaccine would have increased transmission, which is impossible for a vaccine to do. If those were the numbers, the vaccine wouldn't have made it past the trial stage (well, lots and lots of scientists would study the case due to it being an impossibility and it could usher in a new branch of science).

Do you now understand how they measured the effectiveness of the vaccine?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094920#Comment_119094920

That's because the pesticides/herbicides are designed to break down after a few days using predictable chemical and biological reactions.

And one of the advantages of GMO grain is that it doesn't need as much treatment with pesticides and herbicides. Even organic produce is allowed to be sprayed with a variety of herbicides.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095207#Comment_119095207

In those cases the vaccine would have increased transmission, which is impossible for a vaccine to do. 

Or made the vaccinated more susceptible to infection, which is perfectly possible for a vaccine to do.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095207#Comment_119095207

 If those were the numbers, the vaccine wouldn't have made it past the trial stage (well, lots and lots of scientists would study the case due to it being an impossibility and it could usher in a new branch of science).

I wish that were true. What actually happened when those sort of numbers appeared in real world case numbers, the scientists stuck a disclaimer on it and said nothing to see here. And people like you said, grand so, nothing to see here.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095235#Comment_119095235

There is no scientific method by which a vaccine can do this, please explain biologically how this could occur using a vaccine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095251#Comment_119095251

That is not what happened, post some data supporting this.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095265#Comment_119095265

I'm referring to the UKHSA weekly case data, and the ridiculous disclaimers that the real case numbers cannot be used to infer anything re vaccine efficacy. But that's a debate just like the VAERS one, that I don't wish to get into.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095308#Comment_119095308

Even the UKHSA and VAERS data does not say that (unless you deliberately misinterpret the data which is pretty easy to show in a few minutes if you want to attempt to show some of the data).

But at least we know where you're getting your information from now (well, likely via someone else first).

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095322#Comment_119095322

But at least we know where you're getting your information from now (well, likely via someone else first).

Eh? Haven't exactly been trying to hide that. I have referenced the European Medicines Agency, The FDA and the UK Health Security Agency?

What exactly is wrong with that?!

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095265#Comment_119095265

I expect a throwback to a couple of months ago and the Scottish data that was misrepresented.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095391#Comment_119095391

I expect something like that as well.

But you have to be really dumb to be drawn in by that.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094920#Comment_119094920

Engineering and horticulture is interesting, you get to see how it all works. You must have some set up.

King Mob and his corporate members, intrepidly seeking out conspiracies and debunking them. They debunk nothing.

Roundup is highly toxic, it leaves sludge on the ground but yet one of them said it fades away or something like that

I could imagine one of those guy's growing vegetables, probably spraying roundup at 50 to one no ppe in a pair of Birkenstocks and short's. Wearing a mask when buying it at the local co-op... posting selfie's of their virtuosity on Instagram. Then a picture of a burnt out patch of ground a few weeks later.

Just after spraying the weeds a few weeks ago, mask and all.

hometruths

Some detail on Canada's approval of Pfizer, from the "Summary Basis Decision"

What was approved

The Pfizer‑BioNTech COVID‑19 Vaccine (tozinameran) is indicated for active immunization to prevent coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID‑19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS‑CoV‑2) in individuals 16 years of age and older.

https://covid-vaccine.canada.ca/info/summary-basis-decision-detailTwo.html?linkID=SBD00510

Approval on the basis it will prevent the disease, not on the basis that it will reduce severity of symptoms.

And from the consumer information page:

What is the medication used for?

COMIRNATY is a vaccine used to prevent COVID-19 disease caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

Who'd have thought it?

https://covid-vaccine.canada.ca/info/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-en.html

hometruths

And Australia, The Therapeutic Goods Administration, Department of Health

Provisionally Registered Indications

Active immunisation to prevent coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by SARS-CoV-2, in individuals 5 years of age and older

https://www.ebs.tga.gov.au/servlet/xmlmillr6?dbid=ebs/PublicHTML/pdfStore.nsf&docid=9CF92B79D627BDF3CA258829001028BD&agid=(PrintDetailsPublic)&actionid=1

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095649#Comment_119095649

Better off to have banter with these people, as they're only here for the bants.... seriously I'm convinced they like it here. They have outlived most posters. I'm going to stay, help them let off some steam now and again....

Anyhow they'll get a lot of milage out of the monkey pox....I feel more conspiracies coming..... they'll be rubbing their hands..... King Mob will be doing a rocky montage.... and he'll be rocking in calling us all liar's

He already has his ringside seat's.