KBC exiting Ireland

Mastroianni

PommieBast wrote: »

My Ulster account is still operating as it did previously. Need to check whether it is still classified as an independent bank for deposit guarantee purposes..

this means, roughly, that Ulster bank has stopped to do mortgages and loans but can be used as "moneybox" ?
If so for me is fine, I need KBC just for this.

JTMan

The CCPC are now in looking for comments on the acquisition of certain KBC assets and liabilities by Bank of Ireland.

Details are here.

If you feel strongly that this will damage competition, then now is the time to submit comments.

Consumers can submit comments by contacting Craig Whelan at craigwhelan@ccpc.ie

McGiver

Jim2007 wrote:

After all there must be a lot of European economies that:
- have a projected growth rate of 3.5% in the middle of a pandemic

40% of Irish GDP doesn't exist physically in the economy as it's BEPS (base erosion and profit shifting). GDP growth rate doesn't mean the economy actually grew given that only 60% of it is an actual economic activity in the economy.

IMF, EU and OECD, and even Revenue itself, don't use GDP as a macroeconomic indicator for Ireland as it's distorted and unusable. Everybody knows about the distortion caused by the Irish corporate tax haven flow activity. GNI* (modified gross national income) has to be used so that the figures have any meaning.

What's GNI* 2020 growth figure?

Jim2007 wrote:

- have been a net exporter for over thirty years and who’s exports continues to grow year on year despite the pandemic

Yes, but almost all of that is American owned companies, especially MNCs. In the top 20 companies only 1 or 2 Irish (Smurfit Kappa the plastic packaging and the cement factory company, forgot its name) and neither of them are high value add/complex exports. Ireland has 10 times less domestic export firms than Denmark. That's actually not very healthy export business environment.

Jim2007 wrote:

- have cut their national debt from 124% down to 58% over the last decade or so

This figure is the biggest issue because it creates illusion of "all is grand" and that Ireland has no debt.


No, it didn't because you are quoting GDP, out of which 40% is BEPS (corporate tax haven flows).

The % of BEPS impact on the GDP grew over the last decade hence modest reductions in debt caused the debt-GDP ratio to fall.

Government debt as a % of GNI fell from the 170% GNI all time high in 2011 but it's still high. Pre-Covid it was 96% of GNI. National debt is going to be 115% of GNI post Covid as per government's own report.
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/a5c79-minister-donohoe-publishes-annual-report-on-public-debt-in-ireland-2020/
https://assets.gov.ie/121034/b1597369-c72e-46f7-967b-74113ed45b00.pdf
This is heavy indebtedness and still serious if not acted upon, especially if recession comes etc.
...

Sorry for OT but the OP's post is a pure green jersey unicornism and we need to put actual figures and facts on the table to bring it back reality. Heck, even the government doesn't use GDP anymore as it's meaningless for any international or national comparisons - so anyone quoting GDP and Ireland in one sentence is just trolling.

In fact Ireland has several dysfunctional economic sectors, if we want go back on topic - banking, insurance, health etc.

McGiver

Cal Croydon wrote:

GDP is not meaningless for the Irish economy. It just doesn't measure what people want it to measure. It doesn't measure wealth or income, it measures economic activity. Some economic activity can be "virtual" and involve little more than money changing accounts, but IT'S STILL ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

No, simply and squarely no, see above. No credible institution uses GDP as a macroeconomic indicator for Ireland.

Central Bank of Ireland, February 2021:

Conclusion
Ireland is a prosperous country, but not as prosperous as is often thought because of the inappropriate use of misleading, albeit conventional statistics.
There is less consumption per capita than in the United Kingdom, and on this metric we are closer to New Zealand, Israel and Italy, than to the United States, Switzerland or Norway (which is where the GDP comparison would put Ireland).
The same conclusion is drawn if GDP is replaced with the Ireland-specific GNI* indicator. Using GDP as a measure can mislead analysis of such matters as debt, carbon-intensity and inequality.

https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/economic-letters/vol-2021-no-1-is-ireland-really-the-most-prosperous-country-in-europe.pdf

Mastroianni

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/kbc-and-ulster-bank-customers-urged-to-review-their-savings-in-exiting-banks-40359444.html


Customers with savings in the two banks will see their money transferred if they do nothing, according to banking analyst at Davy Stockbrokers Diarmaid Sheridan

Smee_Again

Mastroianni wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/kbc-and-ulster-bank-customers-urged-to-review-their-savings-in-exiting-banks-40359444.html


Customers with savings in the two banks will see their money transferred if they do nothing, according to banking analyst at Davy Stockbrokers Diarmaid Sheridan

Whats the problem?

Mastroianni

Smee_Again wrote: »

Whats the problem?

the problem is that we are forced to move our funds to another bank, this obligation piss me off.
Moreover I don't even know my Payroll admin would accept to credit my salary to a bank with German IBAN (I was thinking to move all to N26) so really I don't know what to do.
How can you be so quiet?

Rock Steady Edy

Ulster Bank and KBC offer the 2 best paying savings accounts in Ireland at present at 0.85% and 0.55% respectively. You'll be lucky to get 0.2% after that. It makes no financial sense to move it out of these accounts before you have to.

Previous banks that have closed down here have written out to customers and given about 2 months notice for you to to close your account and move it somewhere else or provided a default option if you do nothing. Can't see it being any different with Ulster / KBC. That's the time to act and find the best place for your savings. If you wait til that window when everyone has to act to avoid the default option, you might find some level of competition for the savings. As the article above says, the banks need some level of savings to fund their loans, so there may be more interest in the savings than is currently being speculated.

Mastroianni

Rock Steady Edy wrote: »

Ulster Bank and KBC offer the 2 best paying savings accounts in Ireland at present at 0.85% and 0.55% respectively. You'll be lucky to get 0.2% after that. It makes no financial sense to move it out of these accounts before you have to.

definitely I'll do that

Smee_Again

Mastroianni wrote: »

the problem is that we are forced to move our funds to another bank, this obligation piss me off.
Moreover I don't even know my Payroll admin would accept to credit my salary to a bank with German IBAN (I was thinking to move all to N26) so really I don't know what to do.
How can you be so quiet?

Well KBC are closing so yeah, either pick a new bank or get shunted over to BOI. You don't actually have to do anything, at least not yet and not based on something someone from Davy said.

If as that article implies deposits will automatically be transferred then that's a good thing for the lazy consumer, means they don't have to do anything.

If, like me, you've already decided not to bank with BOI it makes no difference as I'd have to open new accounts elsewhere, so not really a big deal.

It's only a bank account at the end of the day, money goes in and money comes out. They're easy to open and have funds transferred etc.

I'm annoyed that KBC are closing because I think their current account was very good, but what can you do.

PommieBast

Problem I have is already having a BoI account, and if my funds from Ulster were simply shunted across I would exceed the deposit guarantee limits.

Rock Steady Edy

PommieBast wrote: »

Problem I have is already having a BoI account, and if my funds from Ulster were simply shunted across I would exceed the deposit guarantee limits.

A good point worthy of highlighting to the CCPC (mentioned by JTMan) that fewer banks reduces the ability of consumers to protect themselves by spreading savings across several banks.

Slutmonkey57b

Rock Steady Edy wrote: »

Ulster Bank and KBC offer the 2 best paying savings accounts in Ireland at present at 0.85% and 0.55% respectively. You'll be lucky to get 0.2% after that. It makes no financial sense to move it out of these accounts before you have to.

All three of those figures are effectively meaningless rates of interest unless you have more than six figures to invest, in which case your financial advisor would be screaming at you to get the money working in property or something else anyway.

Savings accounts everywhere are a place to store funds for a rainy day, not an investment at the moment because of the sub 1% rates.

Rock Steady Edy

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

All three of those figures are effectively meaningless rates of interest unless you have more than six figures to invest, in which case your financial advisor would be screaming at you to get the money working in property or something else anyway.

Savings accounts everywhere are a place to store funds for a rainy day, not an investment at the moment because of the sub 1% rates.

Even at the current rates, interest with Ulster and KBC would probably amount to €100 for the year for a lowish 5 figure investment, accessible instantly if needed. Last year it would have been twice that when the KBC rate was well over 1%. I prefer having that for no risk and little effort than letting the big banks have it. I know others think differently, and that's fine.

Doodah7

Perhaps KBC might want to save themselves some money before their exit. I received a paper statement in the post earlier for a savings account I closed in late 2019 advising me that my balance was €0.00 for the period in question. The statement was for the period 1 Jan 2020 to 6 Jan 2020...

Mastroianni

btw can you confirm that AIB current account is 4.5€ quarter fees?

Sam W

Mastroianni wrote: »

btw can you confirm that AIB current account is 4.5€ quarter fees?

Yes it's 4.5 euro per quarter.

I don't know what others think, but to me, a fixed amount of fee isn't a big issue. What I hated is that they apply transaction fees to every single transaction. It's a pain to work out the exact amount and could add up very quickly if you are used to daily grocery/online shoppings.

Mastroianni

Sam W wrote: »

Yes it's 4.5 euro per quarter.

I don't know what others think, but to me, a fixed amount of fee isn't a big issue. What I hated is that they apply transaction fees to every single transaction. It's a pain to work out the exact amount and could add up very quickly if you are used to daily grocery/online shoppings.

for this wouldn't be a problem: just transfer some amount to N26/Revolut and pay with their debit card.
actually I'm talking with my Finance manager about N26, even after I showed him an article he still needs to check if a German bank can be allowed to enter in the payroll system

Kewreeuss

A lot of payroll software accepts any European BIC & IBAN.
The banks local and international accept and process the files without problem.
I haven’t found or heard otherwise.
Occasionally, a company with not many employees will use a template that’s on their bank site which requires just the sort code and account number. These might not accept any IBAN at all, so non Irish accounts are no good.
I don’t understand the reluctance or the belief that using a non Irish IBAN would be a problem.
Isn’t that one of the reasons we have SEPA?

Sam W

Mastroianni wrote: »

for this wouldn't be a problem: just transfer some amount to N26/Revolut and pay with their debit card.
actually I'm talking with my Finance manager about N26, even after I showed him an article he still needs to check if a German bank can be allowed to enter in the payroll system

I’ve been an N26 Metal customer for years until I needed to contact their customer service for the first time and decided to move away from them. That level of customer services is absolutely appalling especially when you have paid like 16 quids every month.

Also I have had way too many troubles trying to use their card in non-Euro zones.

Not sure about Revolut though.

Mastroianni

Kewreeuss wrote: »

A lot of payroll software accepts any European BIC & IBAN.
The banks local and international accept and process the files without problem.
I haven’t found or heard otherwise.
Occasionally, a company with not many employees will use a template that’s on their bank site which requires just the sort code and account number. These might not accept any IBAN at all, so non Irish accounts are no good.
I don’t understand the reluctance or the belief that using a non Irish IBAN would be a problem.
Isn’t that one of the reasons we have SEPA?

don't tell me, this is EXACTLY what I said to Finance

Mastroianni

Sam W wrote: »

I’ve been an N26 Metal customer for years until I needed to contact their customer service for the first time and decided to move away from them. That level of customer services is absolutely appalling especially when you have paid like 16 quids every month.

Also I have had way too many troubles trying to use their card in non-Euro zones.

Not sure about Revolut though.

what do you mean? I use N26 since 2017 and I have never had an issue. Actually they customer service is brillant, 24/7 open. which kind of issue did you get specifically? I'd to know since probably I will transfer all my funds to them...

Sam W

Mastroianni wrote: »

what do you mean? I use N26 since 2017 and I have never had an issue. Actually they customer service is brillant, 24/7 open. which kind of issue did you get specifically? I'd to know since probably I will transfer all my funds to them...

I commented on this a few pages back. See below:

I was an N26 Metal customer for 3 years before they truly pissed me off and closed my account there.

To be fair they are a good bank to deal with - when there is no issue.

If you need to request for a chargeback, block a transaction, report unusual behaviour, their service standards are beyond appalling. As a Metal customer I already got the VIP line, but it was still a joke. If you need to call them, they would spend five minutes verifying that you are you, and then ask you to wait for another five minutes before they can call you back. I can’t understand the logic in it at all.

The issue that ultimately lead to my closing account should have been a straightforward money transfer issue. I sent over a bank transfer to another AIB account, but AIB had to reject the transfer as the recipient’s legal name has just changed. So AIB tried to send the money back to my N26 account, but N26 just kept rejecting the payment, citing unknown security issue bulls***.

It took me a bit over 3 months, hundreds of calls with them and countless papers to sign, before they finally put the money back on my account. I closed my account as soon as I got my money back.

Sam W

I guess the key takeaway is that if you just want a free account to receive salary and do groceries, N26 has everything you need.

However, if you do lots of transactions (I usually have at least a hundred a month) both online and offline, the need for a reachable (and preferably face-to-face) customer service should not be overlooked. When I call KBC or AIB, they will resolve my issue within 1 call (even if I have to wait for a bit longer). When I need to make a complaint (I did two with AIB coz they screwed up my online access again and again), they will call you back promptly and they will at least try to resolve the issue on the call right away.

Some other issues I had with N26 which they never resolved before I left:
- Repaying my AIB credit cards is a hit-and-miss. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it gets rejected and I just have to do it again. It's the exact same details saved in my account. Nobody could figure out why it sometimes doesn't work.
- Physical shopping in non Euro zone often gets rejected. I embarrassed myself twice in two 3-star Michelin restaurants in Japan when my card got rejected. Ironically, I could still go to a nearby ATM to withdraw cash, so I don't understand the logic there at all.
- Everything is paper based. You just can't believe it. For a bank that branded itself a digital bank, if you need to have any formal correspondence with them, you need to fill in a bloody form and post it to a German address...

I currently have two AIB credit cards - one with 0.5% cashback for basically everything, and another one with 5% cashback on certain brands. On top of that, I use KBC for salary and standing orders/direct debits. Ironically there's no transaction fee for credit cards, other than the 30 euro stamp duty (which can be quickly covered by the cashback).

garrettod

Anyone with a Variable Rate KBC Homeloan, should consider either fixing their interest rate, or refinancing, as those on variable rates only need to look at Bank of Ireland's rates, to see what they will be facing.

For those who can qualify, AvantMoney are doing the best fixed rate in the market - at 1.95%.

youcancallmeal

garrettod wrote: »

Anyone with a Variable Rate KBC Homeloan, should consider either fixing their interest rate, or refinancing, as those on variable rates only need to look at Bank of Ireland's rates, to see what they will be facing

Yeah I fixed for 2 years before just before the announcement, would've gone for 5 years if I had known. Will look elsewhere in 2 years time, hopefully there will be some sort of competition or better offering from BOI themselves then

Bob24

garrettod wrote: »

Anyone with a Variable Rate KBC Homeloan, should consider either fixing their interest rate, or refinancing, as those on variable rates only need to look at Bank of Ireland's rates, to see what they will be facing.

For those who can qualify, AvantMoney are doing the best fixed rate in the market - at 1.95%.

For sure.

Also I think people should make their decisions assuming that the 0.2% discount KBC is giving on mortgage rates for customers who have a current account with them will be gone.

I don’t think there is any contractual commitment (it has always been marketed as a promotional offer) and I don’t see why BOI would keep applying it.

retalivity

I'm on a variable rate with KBC, but have been overpaying monthly and in bulk a few times a year, so fixing doesn't really work for me.

Looking at PTSB myself, which give the 2% plus 2% monthly cashback, the rates arent too bad and the cashback would more than cover the cost of the monthly CA fees til 2027, so effectively free banking again.
Hoping to have it paid off by 2028 or so, so can move on after then.

I've been with BOI and AIB before, would only go back to them as a complete last resort.

rodge123

My 2 year fixed rate of 2.25 with kbc is up this December.
Went through the head wrecking switching process to get away from BOI as they are robbing so and so’s compared to KBCs mortgage rates, free current account and better deposit rates too.

Just wondering is it possible to fix again early, say fix now for another year or two even though current term ain’t up until end of year?

Reason been, will probably be selling up in about 2 years and moving. So clearing mortgage then.
BOI 1 year fixed rate ain’t great and their variable is brutal!

garrettod

Anyone on relatively short term fixed rates, should ask about the cost of breaking out of the fixed rate early.

It costs nothing to ask, and quite often, the cost is not that high - particularly when you look at what might be available as an a alternative rate.