KBC exiting Ireland

AndrewJRenko

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Boi are buying the loans and accounts, not the operations. Redundancies are kbc's problem.

Does TUPE agree with you?

theboringfox

I would be surprised if BOI under TUPE can avoid taking over staff. If assets go across as I understand it any staff who spend majority of time on those assets must be taken on. Hopefully as many kbc staff as possible get to keep their jobs. Awful shock for them how suddenly they found put no doubt.

Q&A

Darc19 wrote: »

Central Bank rules that max is 3.5 earnings has meant that current mortgages (last few years) do not have the non payment issues of previous mortgages

Avant are also very picky.

Remember in 2005 you could get 40 year mortgages with 8+ x times earnings at 100% of house value

You're right it reduces the chances of borrowers getting into trouble BUT if they do the system and all its slow inefficiencies mean it's a nightmare for the lender to get their money back and or foreclose

The court system and insolvency practices are what's driving lenders out. 10 years ago or system was a mess. We temporarily fixed it by coming down on the side of the borrow more often than not but we should have revised the system in the intervening years. We're out of line with the test of Europe.

Foreign banks come here thinking same currency/language as home same approach as home. Works fine during the good times but as soon as things turn south they realise how out of line we are.

The J Stands for Jay

Bob24 wrote: »

As an exemple, I believe BNP Paribas has sustained retail banking business in many countries. So does HSBC and i am sure there must be others.

I had an account with HSBC in New York. They make any of our local Jokers look brilliant

The J Stands for Jay

Darc19 wrote: »

Remember in 2005 you could get 40 year mortgages with 8+ x times earnings at 100% of house value

Was there someone back then giving 110% mortgages?

I wonder how many people financed a car, TV or holiday over 30 years.

sebdavis

sebdavis wrote: »

Do they really have 1400 staff? I have been with them for years and everything was done via a call centre/online. Seems a lot of staff even if including back office staff.

I've heard two figures, 1,000 and 1,400. Not sure how accurate these are but seems reasonable to be around that ballpark figure.

Slutmonkey57b

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Does TUPE agree with you?

theboringfox wrote: »

I would be surprised if BOI under TUPE can avoid taking over staff. If assets go across as I understand it any staff who spend majority of time on those assets must be taken on. Hopefully as many kbc staff as possible get to keep their jobs. Awful shock for them how suddenly they found put no doubt.

Ok... so let's have a look. Where in this announcement does it state that BOI are taking on KBC's staff? (This would be legally required as part of the announcement to the market, btw).


Let's have a look at previous asset sales:
KBC Sells commercial loan book to BOI.
No staff moved over....

BOI sells UK Credit Cards.
No staff moved over....

If BOI were buying out KBC's operation, or doing a takeover, they would be required to engage with the existing staff for job protection. They are explicitly not doing that.

As another poster pointed out, they just got rid of 1700 staff. Why would they do that, then take on 1400 of some other company's staff, to no good purpose, when they already have too many people to do the same work?

Unless your position is that TUPE somehow has the power to pull some sort of gotcha on BOI to say "hey you bought a loan book, we've decided you also bought all these other liabilities that weren't part of the sale!" which, I hate to tell you, it doesn't have.

CollyFlower

Can an Irish resident open a bank account in any European country and use it for day to day banking.?

Peterd66

AndrewJRenko wrote:

That would result in very substantial redundancy costs for BOI, and huge loss of goodwill amongst both staff and customers.

BOI are buying the performing loan books only , someone else is buying not performing loans, no one buying the company, so no staff transfer or TUPE. Staff stay with KBC, which will shut down and staff made redundant.

Jim2007

Deleted User wrote: »

I fear for the future of this country

Yes I suppose if you ignore the facts, you could come to that conclusion...

After all there must be a lot of European economies that:
- have a projected growth rate of 3.5% in the middle of a pandemic
- have been a net exporter for over thirty years and who’s exports continues to grow year on year despite the pandemic
- have cut their national debt from 124% down to 58% over the last decade or so

It’s just that none spring to mind...

Jim2007

CollyFlower wrote: »

Can an Irish resident open a bank account in any European country and use it for day to day banking.?

In theory if you stay within the EU and SEPA region it should be possible. But in reality probably not. First of you can’t force them to do business with you and most of them are not interested in having your account. And from a practical point of view it will be difficult to communicate with them if you don’t speak the language.

And in any case, this is a European wide issue, so it would not make much difference. My bank here in Switzerland used to offer free banking and were happy to open accounts for EU citizens up to late last year, but not anymore:
- Small loss making account holders have been told to close their accounts
- There is a minimum fee of 5 francs per account per month
- one free ATM withdrawal per month, the rest at 2 francs each
- Tax documents, holding accounts etc minimum charge 100 francs
- Negative interest to be introduced later in the year for clients with total deposits over 50k
So from zero fees to about 300 Euros in the space of a few months.

Jim2007

Bob24 wrote: »

As an exemple, I believe BNP Paribas has sustained retail banking business in many countries. So does HSBC and i am sure there must be others.

They are both loosing money on retail banking outside their home market but they account for it as an integrated cost of AM and up to now they have managed AM fairly well.

But the squeeze is on as AM is seen as the last area you can make money in and everyone wants their share.

Bob24

Jim2007 wrote: »

They are both loosing money on retail banking outside their home market but they account for it as an integrated cost of AM and up to now they have managed AM fairly well.

But the squeeze is on as AM is seen as the last area you can make money in and everyone wants their share.

I don’t think many European retail banks (if any) are making any money on offering basic banking services (being at home or abroad).

You just have to look at the Euros Stoxx Bank index to see how they have been crushed since 2008 and never recovered (in good part due to ECb monetary policies): https://www.stoxx.com/index-details?symbol=SX7E

Bob24

Jim2007 wrote: »

They are both loosing money on retail banking outside their home market but they account for it as an integrated cost of AM and up to now they have managed AM fairly well.

But the squeeze is on as AM is seen as the last area you can make money in and everyone wants their share.

I don’t think many European retail banks (if any) are making any money on offering basic banking services (being at home or abroad).

You just have to look at the Euros Stoxx Bank index to see how European banks have been crushed since 2007 and never recovered (in good part due to ECB monetary policies): https://www.stoxx.com/index-details?symbol=SX7E

(current European banks valuation is the same as in 1988 due to that decline initiated in 2007, while the Euro Stoxx 50 tells us the valuation of top European companies since the same year of 1988 has been multiplied by 5: https://www.stoxx.com/index-details?symbol=SX5E)

Basically QE and bond purchase programmes to manipulate interest rates are slowly but surely rendering the business model of the industry ineffective (and depending on how CBDCs are implemented it could be the last nail on the coffin of retail banking).

Mastroianni

I'm sure someone else in this thread had submitted this question: what the heck going to happen for normal customer (no mortgages or loans ongoing?), about savings and day-to-day banking? Do you suggest to change bank?

handlemaster

godtabh wrote: »

The consequence of not been able to call in loans if people default

This is the whole issue. Changing of laws to appease trh popular vote. Does who don't.want to pay either tenant or home owner can.do just that. Banks charge more and.rightly so. Just KBC thinks its not worth the risk. Risk and reward.

ghostdancer

Is there any reason not to switch my mortgage to KBC at the moment?
With the current €3000 switcher offer, they're the most attractive to me at present for a 2-year fixed at 2.25% (otherwise would try switch to Avant for the better rate). Currently on AIB variable.

Q&A

Mastroianni wrote: »

I'm sure someone else in this thread had submitted this question: what the heck going to happen for normal customer (no mortgages or loans ongoing?), about savings and day-to-day banking? Do you suggest to change bank?

Liabilities (current accounts, deposits) are mentioned in the release so right now you don't have to do anything. They are likely to transfer with the assets.

It would seem reasonable to think that the structure of fees and charges that BOI charge now well eventually apply to any KBC current account. Depending on your tolerance to those fees you might want to change in b the future.

Smee_Again

ghostdancer wrote: »

Is there any reason not to switch my mortgage to KBC at the moment?
With the current €3000 switcher offer, they're the most attractive to me at present for a 2-year fixed at 2.25% (otherwise would try switch to Avant for the better rate). Currently on AIB variable.

No reason at all.

feelings

And this is one of the major issues.

Look at the couple from the Dublin north, who sat in their 1million home from 2010 until 2017. Just stopped paying their 4500 mortgage after a few months in 2010. The BOI/ICS chased them for 7 years to repossess the house.

McGiver wrote: »

Yep, in fact they're on the opposite end of the spectrum, it's easy to get people indebted (by accumulating extra fees, legal fees, court fees etc) and repossession is quite easy. In fact, legislation was brought in there to balance it bit more in favour of the consumer vs lenders.

I suppose a reasonable middle ground is the best...

Mastroianni

I have been in touch with KBC chat:


Operator: Hi at the moment there are no changes to current accounts for the foreseeable future we will continue to be providing current account services and even for new customers. If that changes in the future we will advise buit for now nothing to worry about
Me: ok but as I'm leaving Ireland in the next couple of months, and KBC will move away from Ireland and Central Bank. What exactly will happen? Will I have a chance to move my saving to any other European bank?
Operator: we do not know at the moment , it was only announced friday it may take months to do the deal so at the moment that all me know is its business as usual


Is that was useful for someone...please let me know because it has been said anything of useful

Smee_Again

Mastroianni wrote: »

I have been in touch with KBC chat:


Operator: Hi at the moment there are no changes to current accounts for the foreseeable future we will continue to be providing current account services and even for new customers. If that changes in the future we will advise buit for now nothing to worry about
Me: ok but as I'm leaving Ireland in the next couple of months, and KBC will move away from Ireland and Central Bank. What exactly will happen? Will I have a chance to move my saving to any other European bank?
Operator: we do not know at the moment , it was only announced friday it may take months to do the deal so at the moment that all me know is its business as usual


Is that was useful for someone...please let me know because it has been said anything of useful

What do you expect? Nothing has been finalised yet so how can they tell you anything.

If you can open a bank account in another bank, be that here or elsewhere, you can request the funds be transferred.

KBC aren’t going to have any special arrangements for Irish based customers who emigrate.

BronsonTB

ghostdancer wrote: »

Is there any reason not to switch my mortgage to KBC at the moment?
With the current €3000 switcher offer, they're the most attractive to me at present for a 2-year fixed at 2.25% (otherwise would try switch to Avant for the better rate). Currently on AIB variable.

One negative point to note, they do not have your mortgage account online - not available in the app so more difficult to make lump payments see balance/get statements etc.
Also switching can take alot longer than you would expect.
Register all correspondance (KBC have a habit of misplacing vital documentation)

Mastroianni

Smee_Again wrote: »

What do you expect? Nothing has been finalised yet so how can they tell you anything.

If you can open a bank account in another bank, be that here or elsewhere, you can request the funds be transferred.

KBC aren’t going to have any special arrangements for Irish based customers who emigrate.

exactly they couldn't tell me "take the money and run!"
but what about with Ulster? I mean, when KBC will decide to leave Ireland, they will give how much months of notice to its customer to transfer funds

Smee_Again

Mastroianni wrote: »

exactly they couldn't tell me "take the money and run!"
but what about with Ulster? I mean, when KBC will decide to leave Ireland, they will give how much months of notice to its customer to transfer funds

Why would they tell you to take the money and run? KBC is going to continue to operate as normal while all the details are figured out.

Their statement on the app even says "There is no impact on KBC Bank Ireland customers'..."

Do you think your funds deposited with KBC are at risk or something? And how long do you think it takes to open an account and transfer the funds? You probably could have done it in the time between your 2 posts on here.

Mastroianni

Smee_Again wrote: »

Why would they tell you to take the money and run? KBC is going to continue to operate as normal while all the details are figured out.

Their statement on the app even says "There is no impact on KBC Bank Ireland customers'..."

Do you think your funds deposited with KBC are at risk or something? And how long do you think it takes to open an account and transfer the funds? You probably could have done it in the time between your 2 posts on here.

I'm sorry to offend KBC insiders here, but as I have never dealt with banks in past I would like to know, as much as possible, all the steps that I might undertake. Above all because I will leave Ireland in the next couple of months and I would like to get everything sorted for a piece of mind. If KBC will give months of time to move the funds to any other European bank then happy days.

howiya

Mastroianni wrote: »

I'm sorry to offend KBC insiders here, but as I have never dealt with banks in past I would like to know, as much as possible, all the steps that I might undertake. Above all because I will leave Ireland in the next couple of months and I would like to get everything sorted for a piece of mind. If KBC will give months of time to move the funds to any other European bank then happy days.

Keep an eye on their website for your own peace of mind but it is highly unlikely that KBC will have closed here by the time you leave Ireland.

Mastroianni

howiya wrote: »

Keep an eye on their website for your own peace of mind but it is highly unlikely that KBC will have closed here by the time you leave Ireland.

I suppose they gonna give 3-6 months of notice in advance. I'd like to know what happened with Ulster customer...

PommieBast

Mastroianni wrote: »

I suppose they gonna give 3-6 months of notice in advance. I'd like to know what happened with Ulster customer...

My Ulster account is still operating as it did previously. Need to check whether it is still classified as an independent bank for deposit guarantee purposes..

Jim2007

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