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cerateau

Hi,

I started a job very recently but have since left after finding a less stressful job.

I had worked there for only 5 days and hadn't registered with revenue yet nor did I sign any contract.

I have emailed my employer to say that I won't be returning to work and included bank account details in the email to be paid for the week's work.

The employer ignored my email and I sent a follow up email a few days ago yet no reply.

Where do I proceed from here?

I am a college student, skint at the moment, so I really don't want to let this slide.

YellowLead

Yikes starting a job without signing a contract! I assume it’s a small business or something??? Hopefully somebody can advise but it’s doubtful territory. I hope you have some sort of paper trial.

godtabh

you walked out of a job with no notice and no evidence of employment?

cerateau

cerateau wrote: »

Hi,

I started a job very recently but have since left after finding a less stressful job.

I had worked there for only 5 days and hadn't registered with revenue yet nor did I sign any contract.

I have emailed my employer to say that I won't be returning to work and included bank account details in the email to be paid for the week's work.

The employer ignored my email and I sent a follow up email a few days ago yet no reply.

Where do I proceed from here?

I am a college student, skint at the moment, so I really don't want to let this slide.

Dont forget to get your AL entitlement.

cerateau

godtabh wrote: »

you walked out of a job with no notice and no evidence of employment?

You do not have to give notice if you:

Have been working for your employer for less than 13 weeks, and
Have no contract of employment specifying a notice period

I do have some emails from the employer stating my availability and my start date. But yeah, I've nothing else by way of evidence.

Deeec

If I was your old employer I would be annoyed that you just sent an email rather than phoning them to explain. I dont blame them for ignoring you. Did you give them your PPS number to register you as an employee when you started? They cant put you on their payroll without registering you with revenue.

cerateau

YellowLead wrote: »

Yikes starting a job without signing a contract! I assume it’s a small business or something??? Hopefully somebody can advise but it’s doubtful territory. I hope you have some sort of paper trial.

I have some email communication but not much to go on there.

I would have signed a contract and registered with revenue etc. but I had only been there for one week and I was told I was getting paid every 2 weeks.

Should I just cut my losses her or can I threaten with the WRC even though I wasn't a registered employee ?

Deeec

Deleted User wrote: »

Dont forget to get your AL entitlement.

Yep defintely- OP may be entitled to a few minutes paid hols!

mloc123

cerateau wrote: »

Should I just cut my losses her or can I threaten with the WRC even though I wasn't a registered employee ?

Personally I would cut your losses... but I would be embarrassed to start and leave a job within 5 days and even ask to be paid for those days.

cerateau

Deeec wrote: »

Yep defintely- OP may be entitled to a few minutes paid hols!

I probably sound stingy here but I don't support free labor and secondly, do you not think there was reason I left the job?
(11 x 8) x 5 = 440 x 0.08 = 35 in holiday pay which isn't a few cents.

cerateau

mloc123 wrote: »

Personally I would cut your losses... but I would be embarrassed to start and leave a job within 5 days and even ask to be paid for those days.

What's embarrassing about asking to be paid for hours worked ?

It was a slightly above minimum wage job which was just not worth the stress.

SteM

cerateau wrote: »

I have some email communication but not much to go on there.

I would have signed a contract and registered with revenue etc. but I had only been there for one week and I was told I was getting paid every 2 weeks.

Should I just cut my losses her or can I threaten with the WRC even though I wasn't a registered employee ?

How about before you threaten them with the WRC you leave your student days behind, become an adult and phone them to talk to to them rather than rely on email?

Deeec

cerateau wrote: »

I have some email communication but not much to go on there.

I would have signed a contract and registered with revenue etc. but I had only been there for one week and I was told I was getting paid every 2 weeks.

Should I just cut my losses her or can I threaten with the WRC even though I wasn't a registered employee ?

Did you give your old employer your PPS no?

The_Dave

SteM wrote: »

How about before you threaten them with the WRC you leave your student days behind, become an adult and phone them to talk to to them rather than rely on email?

At least with email there's proof of what was siad rather than he said/she said. But I'm no expert on legal issues, just know I'd always like to have some sort of back-up

SteM

The_Dave wrote: »

At least with email there's proof of what was siad rather than he said/she said. But I'm no expert on legal issues, just know I'd always like to have some sort of back-up

Absolutely email first but follow it up with a simple phone call before you go about shouting about threatening with the WRC.

begbysback

mloc123 wrote: »

Personally I would cut your losses... but I would be embarrassed to start and leave a job within 5 days and even ask to be paid for those days.

Why embarrassed? He worked the days, and doesn’t seem to be asking for anything more than that. Is this an Irish thing?

Calahonda52

cerateau wrote: »

I am a college student, skint at the moment, so I really don't want to let this slide.

.
You should have thought about this before you WALKED OUT with even an acknowledgement that they gave you 5 days work.
To be honest you need to take a very close look at how you view the world before you leave the college nest and head out into the real world.

You need to work on your people skills, starting with call them up, apologise for leaving them in the lurch and ask for payment, politely.

Your sense of bald entitlement, without any consideration of the employer, is absolutely stunning at such a young age.

As for the WRC, if they called me I would say who are we talking about here?
Will you be hoping for free legal aid at the WRC, senior counsel, junior counsel, lawyer etc

Allinall

Calahonda52 wrote: »

.
You should have thought about this before you WALKED OUT with even an acknowledgement that they gave you 5 days work.
To be honest you need to take a very close look at how you view the world before you leave the college nest and head out into the real world.

You need to work on your people skills, starting with call them up, apologise for leaving them in the lurch and ask for payment, politely.

Your sense of bald entitlement, without any consideration of the employer, is absolutely stunning at such a young age.

As for the WRC, if they called me I would say who are we talking about here?
Will you be hoping for free legal aid at the WRC, senior counsel, junior counsel, lawyer etc

If they don’t pay the OP, then they didn’t give them a weeks work.

They robbed them of their services for a week.

Orange Tiny Terror

Terrible work worship culture advice from some here. You fully deserve to be paid for the time you worked. You are also fully entitled to walk out without having to feel embarrassed about it.

SteM

Allinall wrote: »

If they don’t pay the OP, then they didn’t give them a weeks work.

They robbed them of their services for a week.

He should phone them or call in to clarify what's happening. Maybe the person he's mailing is on holidays or off sick.

Jim Root

your problem here was method of communication. I've noticed it with younger people in the work place, hiding behind emails.

Thomasirl123

Jim Root wrote: »

your problem here was method of communication. I've noticed it with younger people in the work place, hiding behind emails.

It's a business transaction, what's wrong with using email?

SteM

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

It's a business transaction, what's wrong with using email?

If I want something I'll email but if I have had no reply then I won't follow up with another email. I'll phone to ask why my original mail wasn't actioned. There's no hiding from it then.

Deeec

Orange Tiny Terror wrote: »

Terrible work worship culture advice from some here. You fully deserve to be paid for the time you worked. You are also fully entitled to walk out without having to feel embarrassed about it.

The OP has said they did not register the employment with revenue. I have asked them twice did they provide their PPS no to the employer ( they have refused to answer this) - so I take it they did not give this info to the employer. How do they propose the employer pays them without a PPS number. Do they expect to get paid off the books - which is illegal?

SteM

SteM wrote: »

He should phone them or call in to clarify what's happening. Maybe the person he's mailing is on holidays or off sick.

is it a he?

bucketybuck

I totally believe the OP's story.

SteM

Deleted User wrote: »

is it a he?

Does that matter in the context of the problem the OP is having? I made a judgement by using 'He', is that really what you want to discuss or do you have any advice for him/her/it?

GT89

Ask them politely can you have the money. If they give to you great if not then leave it it's not worth the hassle for a few hundred quid at most. It might be nice to have the money in the short run but in the grand scheme of things it's fcuk all.

Thomasirl123

SteM wrote: »

If I want something I'll email but if I have had no reply then I won't follow up with another email. I'll phone to ask why my original mail wasn't actioned. There's no hiding from it then.

Agreed.

cerateau

Deeec wrote: »

The OP has said they did not register the employment with revenue. I have asked them twice did they provide their PPS no to the employer ( they have refused to answer this) - so I take it they did not give this info to the employer. How do they propose the employer pays them without a PPS number. Do they expect to get paid off the books - which is illegal?

No, because I was never asked.

I will ask them for their tax registration number.

I just thought it would be easier for them to pay me the 400 euro directly to my account without having to register me with revenue then get on the payroll then terminate my employment. So I sent my bank details on via email.

I don't think it's cash in hand but either way I don't pay tax so ?

cerateau

bucketybuck wrote: »

I totally believe the OP's story.

Thank you for your input.

Faolchu

OP
1) did you provide your PPS to your former employer?
2) Did your former employer provide you with their details so you could self register with the revenue?
3) Have you checked the revenue website to see if they registered you as an employee?

your moral compass sucks. by all means if you are unhappy about a job then leave. granted no one should work a job they are unhappy in but be a bloody adult about it. Speak to your employer face to face explain your reasons, stick to your guns if you are adamant and if required be it legally or out of common bloody courtesy work your notice period. if you do that no one can touch you.

now you have walked away from employment leaving your employer stuck. that is their problem not yours. you have continuously emailed and they have not answered so its time to put your big boy pants on and phone/walk in and speak face to face with them. be polite but firm, don't go in being bill big bollox threatening people with the WRC. Keep your powder dry until they refuse what you are entitled to.

regardless of the outcome to the phone call/face to face email in a summary of what took place. this gives them an opportunity to dispute what you are claiming are the facts of a discussion. you are basically minuting the meeting, that's standard practice and as is standard practice all parties invilved have an opportunity to set the record straight. if they dont respond or dont offer an alternative record of the call/meeting then if it goes legal they cant really come back and say "that never happened" or "i didnt say that" because you gave them a chance to correct the record.

if after the phone call / face to face they still refuse to engage and pay you. then take what ever legal action you deem appropriate, but I'd start with consulting a solicitor who specialises in employment law

dontmindme

GT89 wrote: »

Ask them politely can you have the money. If they give to you great if not then leave it it's not worth the hassle for a few hundred quid at most. It might be nice to have the money in the short run but in the grand scheme of things it's fcuk all.

The OP has already told you that they are skint and you want then to write off a few hundred quid...like really?:eek: :rolleyes::cool:

OP you need to ring and talk to your employer and it also would've been better had you done this before deciding to leave.

EDIT: Also, going forward, five days is really not long enough to make a decision about a new job unless the conditions are off-the-wall unbearable.

cerateau

SteM wrote: »

Does that matter in the context of the problem the OP is having? I made a judgement by using 'He', is that really what you want to discuss or do you have any advice for him/her/it?

It?

SteM

cerateau wrote: »

I don't think it's cash in hand but either way I don't pay tax so ?

They still have to do everything above board with the Revenue whether you're taxed on it or not.

Mrs OBumble

cerateau wrote: »

No, because I was never asked.

I will ask them for their tax registration number.

I just thought it would be easier for them to pay me the 400 euro directly to my account without having to register me with revenue then get on the payroll then terminate my employment. So I sent my bank details on via email.

I don't think it's cash in hand but either way I don't pay tax so ?

You need to give them your PPS no if you want them to pay you.





TBH, I think the employer has dodged a bullet here.

cerateau

cerateau wrote: »

No, because I was never asked.

I will ask them for their tax registration number.

I just thought it would be easier for them to pay me the 400 euro directly to my account without having to register me with revenue then get on the payroll then terminate my employment. So I sent my bank details on via email.

I don't think it's cash in hand but either way I don't pay tax so ?

You've completely lost the high moral ground.

It needs to be put through payroll. But, you didn't sign a contract - where was €11 per hour mentioned. A contract isn't required within the first week, so the company hasn't done anything legally wrong yet.

I wouldn't expect to be paid until the paper work is fully tidied up, which may not be soon... due to priorities and... being short staffed.

BTW, you need to give them YOUR PPS number.

Bicyclette

cerateau wrote: »

No, because I was never asked.

I will ask them for their tax registration number.

I just thought it would be easier for them to pay me the 400 euro directly to my account without having to register me with revenue then get on the payroll then terminate my employment. So I sent my bank details on via email.

I don't think it's cash in hand but either way I don't pay tax so ?

I was sympathetic to you until this bit.

It doesn't matter if you will be paying tax or not, the employer will be paying PRSI on your behalf. You are entitled to be paid for the time you worked. But you should have provided your employer with your PPSN the day you started work. Workplace Relations will give you advice - you don't need representation to speak to them.

Take a look at the information below on the "Payment of Wages" Act https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_slip.html

Deeec

cerateau wrote: »

No, because I was never asked.

I will ask them for their tax registration number.

I just thought it would be easier for them to pay me the 400 euro directly to my account without having to register me with revenue then get on the payroll then terminate my employment. So I sent my bank details on via email.

I don't think it's cash in hand but either way I don't pay tax so ?

This could be your issue. You need to give them your PPS number. They can register you with revenue through their payroll system. The payment needs to be processed properly regardless if tax, usc, prsi is not deducted.

Most business's wont pay cash in hand - this is not legal.

cgcsb

Good for you getting a better job. Companies would ditch their employees just as quick so no shame in dumping them when it suits you.

Eircom_Sucks

grow a pair and call them , and if they try wiggle out of paying you , then i'd threaten reporting them ( then they won't want the aggro of an inspection and will pay you )

cerateau

Faolchu wrote: »

OP
1) did you provide your PPS to your former employer?
2) Did your former employer provide you with their details so you could self register with the revenue?
3) Have you checked the revenue website to see if they registered you as an employee?

your moral compass sucks. by all means if you are unhappy about a job then leave. granted no one should work a job they are unhappy in but be a bloody adult about it. Speak to your employer face to face explain your reasons, stick to your guns if you are adamant and if required be it legally or out of common bloody courtesy work your notice period. if you do that no one can touch you.

1 No 2 No 3 Yes
I did not need to give notice according to Irish law.

Your advice is good but it assumes that my employer is approachable.

I was doing all the **** jobs beyond the scope of the job description, breaking my back for just slightly above minimum wage.

My moral compass is apparently ****ed because I'm not submissive enough to my employer?

I'd like to keep everything in writing just so I have a leg to stand on.

Thank you for your advice tho

SteM

Deleted User wrote: »

is it a he?

cerateau wrote: »

It?

Hey, I'm just covering myself

cerateau

Bicyclette wrote: »

I was sympathetic to you until this bit.

It doesn't matter if you will be paying tax or not, the employer will be paying PRSI on your behalf. You are entitled to be paid for the time you worked. But you should have provided your employer with your PPSN the day you started work. Workplace Relations will give you advice - you don't need representation to speak to them.

Is the employer not under an obligation to ensure he is PRSI compliant and the onus is on him to get relevant info ?

Deeec

cerateau wrote: »

Is the employer not under an obligation to ensure he is PRSI compliant and the onus is on him to get relevant info ?

You have to provide the info to them. They have no means of finding out your tax credits etc if you dont give them your PPS number. They would request this info from you as it gets nearer to payroll date.

In future you should provide this info on day 1 of your employment.

ontour2

Cerateau,

You are just not a priority for them which is not surprising but does not mean that they do not need to pay you. If they do not have your PPS number then you can assume there is nothing happening to get you paid.

As you had no contract, one other option may be to send an invoice to the company for the number of hours multiplied by the rate. In that way, they could just pay it without putting you on the payroll system. All the tax implications become your issue.

If that does not work for them, it might at least trigger them to resolve via payroll.

Strumms

mloc123 wrote: »

Personally I would cut your losses... but I would be embarrassed to start and leave a job within 5 days and even ask to be paid for those days.

Why ? A person provided them with 40 hours of their time and labour, they deserve to be compensated.

The employer is quite entitled to feel delighted, overjoyed, disappointed or depressed or whatever emotion they choose at your early and sudden departure...however, they owe you pay for your time working there...

Fionn1952

cerateau wrote: »

1 No 2 No 3 Yes
I did not need to give notice according to Irish law.

Your advice is good but it assumes that my employer is approachable.

I was doing all the **** jobs beyond the scope of the job description, breaking my back for just slightly above minimum wage.

My moral compass is apparently ****ed because I'm not submissive enough to my employer?

I'd like to keep everything in writing just so I have a leg to stand on.

Thank you for your advice tho

Being professional is not the same as being submissive. You may not legally be obliged to give notice, but what ever happened to basic manners? Some jobs aren't great, most job descriptions will state other duties as necessary. We aren't talking about being psychologically traumatised here by the sounds of it, just doing something you don't like doing. Such is life when starting out.

That being said, calls to just write off the weeks work you actually did are just as bad, but when you didn't have the common courtesy to conduct yourself professionally with them, why would you then expect them to drop everything and rush around so you're not inconvenienced?

Picking up the phone or dropping in and discussing it like an adult would still be my suggestion, but I wouldn't be expecting them to rush anything through outside of normal pay cycles, and I certainly wouldn't be expecting cash in hand, off the books because it might be handier.

Bicyclette

cerateau wrote: »

Is the employer not under an obligation to ensure he is PRSI compliant and the onus is on him to get relevant info ?

You are making very dangerous aspersions here.

Responsibility goes both ways. You have a responsibility to behave professionally and provide your employer with relevant information.

You didn't sign a contract but a contract is implied if you turn up at a place of work and provide the employer with labour and the employer actively instructs you to do that labour.

What was said to you about payment, when you were arranging to work for the employer?

POBox19

cerateau wrote: »

I don't think it's cash in hand but either way I don't pay tax so ?

How is it that you don't pay tax?

Perhaps you should just invoice the employer for your services, assuming that you did some productive work in your first week. An employer is responsible for making PRSI returns for employees. In the absence of your tax details they are obligated to withhold tax on 'Emergency Tax' rates which may leave a little for you.

Given your treatment of the former employer I'd say that they'll just not waste their time with you. Put it down to experience.
The WRC would most likely laugh you out of the office.

Deeec

OP you do deserve to be paid but you dealt with the situation very badly. I hope you have learned from this episode - not everything should or can be done by email. You should have had some respect for the employer even though the job was sh*t - alot of minimum wage jobs are sh*t. I hope you get paid soon.