Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

KrustyUCC

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Then younger people will be vaccinated before older people due to supply

It's a farce . Typical really but no surprising

True but like Merlin said then you end up with unused vaccines if you give the older groups Pfizer or Moderna when younger groups can't take AZ or J&J

Farce is right

I'd love to know what NIAC were discussing for three days and yet they came up with this crap decision

Miike

Do we have expected numbers form J&J deliveries over the coming months?

Edit: 605,000 by end of June, supposedly.

Turtwig

Miike wrote: »

The J&J decision has left me baffled anyway!

I was fearful they'd go with 60 and not allow any exceptions for the various community groups. It goes to show how low my expectations were that I was actually, sort of, pleasantly surprised they went with 50 and made provision for the various minority groups that HIQA wanted the vaccine reserved for.

Strazdas

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

But, with your approach, we end up with hundreds of thousands of unused J&J vaccines.

We would deal with that when we come to it. As some have said, reserving the best vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna for healthy young people in their 20s and 30s wouldn't make much sense either. There is a strong logic to people in their 50s getting them (alongside J & J).

Strazdas

Strazdas wrote: »

I'm not sure why people think that people in their 50s won't be given Pfizer and Moderna. If the aim is to work progressively down through the cohorts, then the logical thing to do would be to give all three vaccines to people in their fifties (i.e. whatever is available at that moment). Simply giving them J & J only and leaving hundreds of thousands of them to wait for many weeks until more J & J doses become available makes absolutely no sense.

HSE has to implement this operationally.

If they do what you suggested hundreds of thousands of jandj go wasted in June and overall rollout slows.

To keep rollout fast 50s may be the sacrificial lambs unfortunately.

Don't blame me blame NIAC.

NIAC have dumped this on hse.

Turtwig

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Both are treatable clotting conditions*. FDA J&J pause was for the exact reason of summarising treatments.

The treatment, prognosis and timeliness of intervention required for one is markedly different to the other.

is_that_so

Miike wrote: »

Do we have expected numbers form J&J deliveries over the coming months?

Edit: 605,000 by end of June, supposedly.

Which is about the size of 50-59 age group. To paraphrase Varadkar we will have 4 vaccines for the over 50s but only 2 (really only one) for the under 50s!

ACitizenErased

Strazdas wrote: »

We would deal with that when we come to it. As some have said, reserving the best vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna for healthy young people in their 20s and 30s wouldn't make much sense either. There is a strong logic to people in their 50s getting them (alongside J & J).

That causes a delay. You'll end up with J&J left over, not able to be used, while waiting for enough Pfizer deliveries to catch up.

ACitizenErased

Turtwig wrote: »

The treatment, prognosis and timeliness of intervention required for one is markedly different to the other.

You said one is treatable. Both are treatable.

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

How does this work ethically? As I understand it a vulnerable population is broadly one where there is felt to be a large risk they don't attend the second dose of the other vaccines.

Do you get put into a particular group by someone and told you are getting that vaccine which NIAC says shouldn't be given to other under-50 year olds because they think you won't attend for a second vaccination?

That vulnerable group is largely Travellers, Roma and the homeless. They number about 40,000, which we will have shortly in J&J vaccines.

Miike

Turtwig wrote: »

I was fearful they'd go with 60 and not allow any exceptions for the various community groups. It goes to show how low my expectations were that I was actually, sort of, pleasantly surprised they went with 50 and made provision for the various minority groups that HIQA wanted the vaccine reserved for.

Where did you read about the provision being made for minority groups? Can you link it

Polar101

Might be a good idea to wait for the actual announcement of the NIAC J&J decision, too.

Stheno

Miike wrote: »

Where did you read about the provision being made for minority groups? Can you link it

RTE News
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0426/1212222-niac/

However, it could also be used for younger people if there is no option of another vaccine, and for those who live in hard to reach communities.

Think hard to reach communities is minority groups?

is_that_so

Miike wrote: »

Where did you read about the provision being made for minority groups? Can you link it

Mentioned in there - a HIQA report and NIAC agreed.

https://www.thejournal.ie/niac-vaccine-recommendations-5397171-Mar2021/

Stheno

Polar101 wrote: »

Might be a good idea to wait for the actual announcement of the NIAC J&J decision, too.

Well Tony H has to rubber stamp it

Turtwig

Miike wrote: »

Where did you read about the provision being made for minority groups? Can you link it

Yeah sure
*brain: has to scramble for links on phone ughh*

Stheno wrote: »

RTE News
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0426/1212222-niac/


Think hard to reach communities is minority groups?

is_that_so wrote: »

Mentioned in there - a HIQA report and NIAC agreed.

https://www.thejournal.ie/niac-vaccine-recommendations-5397171-Mar2021/

You guys are the bestest.

KrustyUCC

Stheno wrote: »

Well Tony H has to rubber stamp it

True but he won't go against NIAC

castletownman

Question: I'm 33 with no underlying conditions. Assuming this J+J age restriction will be rubber-stamped, what order will the various age groups be rolled out now with the other vaccines?

I am guessing after the over 60s are done, they will do 40-49, then 30-39 etc.? With the over-50s done concurrently with J+J. Just curious whether I have suddenly moved up the list, but happy enough to bide my time anyway.

Bit cynical

is_that_so wrote: »

That vulnerable group is largely Travellers, Roma and the homeless. They number about 40,000, which we will have shortly in J&J vaccines.

What is the rational behind giving J&J to these groups?

Stheno

Bit cynical wrote: »

What is the rational behind giving J&J to these groups?

No second dose needed, so no risk of them not turning up for the second dose

Zhane

Bit cynical wrote: »

What is the rational behind giving J&J to these groups?

It’s one dose, which means they only have to show up once and not being chased down for the second dose as they might be worried they won’t show up.

JPup

Bit cynical wrote: »

What is the rational behind giving J&J to these groups?

One and done. They may not be easy to reach for a second dose.

Also can be more easily transported and stored. Harder to get homeless to attend mass vaccination centres. This way, nurses could visit homeless shelters and vaccinate there.

Miike

Stheno wrote: »

RTE News
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0426/1212222-niac/


Think hard to reach communities is minority groups?

I would imagine so! I must have had a cached version of that page because I wasn't seeing it on my phone, but I can see it on my PC!

is_that_so wrote: »

Mentioned in there - a HIQA report and NIAC agreed.

https://www.thejournal.ie/niac-vaccine-recommendations-5397171-Mar2021/

I saw that report by HIQA and I was hoping that it would be 'honored' but I didn't see mention of it in the RTE article.

Turtwig wrote: »

Yeah sure
*brain: has to scramble for links on phone ughh*



You guys are the bestest.

Thank you all

Hurrache

Level 42 wrote: »

This is utter madness restricting it to 50 plus.who does this butler think she is

banana republic

If only she knew this thread was full of experts she could seek advice from.

Turtwig

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You said one is treatable. Both are treatable.

I'm not actually sure what we're disagreeing with or agreeing with here.

Godot.

Terrible decision regarding J&J regarding restricting J&J to over 50's imo. Holohan needs to give it the green light next? Taking them a while to rubber stamp one of the worst possible decisions, isn't it? How long until we actually start jabbing with it? Some European countries were using it the very next day after the EMA issued their announcement.

Stheno

Godot. wrote: »

Terrible decision regarding J&J regarding restricting J&J to over 50's imo. Holohan needs to give it the green light next? Taking them a while to rubber stamp one of the worst possible decisions, isn't it? How long until we actually start jabbing with it? Some European countries were using it the very next day after the EMA issued their announcement.

Think we have either 14 or 40k doses in storage

Aidric

What is this NIAC recommendation based on? Given that the FDA and EMA have lifted their pause with the condition of an additional warning of rare clotting events in young women.

hmmm

Hurrache wrote: »

If only she knew this thread was full of experts she could seek advice from.

Unless we have data which is not available to other regulators who have not imposed an age restriction, there's nothing wrong on a discussion forum asking why the recommendation in Ireland is different. Particularly considering there are such high stakes - 25% of people are unemployed, there are lots of business hoping for a reopening during Summer.

It'll be for the Government to explain their decision, I've no doubt they'll do a wonderful job.

odyssey06

Hurrache wrote: »

If only she knew this thread was full of experts she could seek advice from.

I guess our experts wouldnt be justifying their position if they came to the same conclusion as the EMA.