Irish examiner article - Bishop Phonsie

Yellow_Fern · 15-09-2023 8:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088604#Comment_121088604

Shame on you for trying to link standard mainstream conservative views as far right. It is cynical and dishonest. Far-right has a meaning, and it does not mean being against anything goes sex education. 15 ago, these views would have been the establishment. Eight years ago, they might have been holy joe. Now we are far right? I know one thing conservatives, like me, have not changed. It is your ilk who have changed. Ireland is lucky not to have a genuine far-right presence, but if we develop one in the future, I imagine people like you who call everyone you don't like far-right will be partially responsible for normalising the word.

Lastly, I know Fonsie. He is a very decent man who doesn't have a hating bone in his body.

dk1982 · 15-09-2023 9:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111911#Comment_121111911

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Hotblack Desiato · 15-09-2023 10:17am

These people are far-right, conspiracy theory nonsense expressing hatred against minority groups and blaming them for the supposed ills of society. If you can't see that you must be standing too close to them

Yellow_Fern · 15-09-2023 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112336#Comment_121112336

Everyone is part of some minority but the meeting has nothing to do with minorities or trans. It is about promoting normal sex education, many people do not want 13 YOs to get guidance on how to do blow jobs or the many other dubious ideas involved. Furthermore, concerns about trans issues has nothing to do with far rightism. It isn't even a conservative vs liberal thing. It is more about believing gender sex is real a objective thing, or is something in our minds. You can believe in biology, or the gender theorists. Before people accuse me, I work in science. I have a PhD and I'm not far right.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-09-2023 1:23pm

Yeah, sure, the people who spent years blocking any sort of sex education in Irish schools at all now want 'normal' sex education (whatever that is - strong implication that anything not fully in accordance with RC teaching is 'abnormal')

Sorry but their credibility is zero on this issue.

But if parents have concerns about the actual content of the syllabus (as opposed to the scaremongering) they can always withdraw their child, just as we withdraw ours from the daily religious brainwashing, that is their right.

Gardner · 15-09-2023 3:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111911#Comment_121111911

Far right and the catholic church go hand in hand. Church supported the Nazi's in the past and probably still would today if they were generally around, especially with the catholic church modern day views on woman and the LGBTQ community.

comes a time in life were you tell your kids Santa Claus and the Easter bunny aren't real, there's still a few adults in Ireland who weren't told the same about God/Jesus/the fairy in the sky etc.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-09-2023 4:03pm

Mussolini created the Vatican pseudo-state, that's the sort of favour that does not go unrewarded

Yellow_Fern · 15-09-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114026#Comment_121114026

Hitler is one the few politician that I can think in world history who had an entire Papal Encyclical attacking him (Mit brennender Sorge). Uniquely, this was written in German, not in the churches language of Latin. Interestingly enough, there was also one attacking Mussolini (Non abbiamo bisogno). While many bishops and priests were murdered by the Nazis, many for their criticism, others for protecting Jews. In one camp, over 1500 priests were killed. I know this as my own fomer parish church's patron was one of these priest martyrs.

Both Hitler and Mussolini, despite being raised in deeply Catholic environments, did not practise Catholicism. Both hated the faith and organised religion. Hitler went as far as to deny Jesus was Jewish (Positives Christentum). To start, maybe watch the beautiful 2019 film 'A Hidden Life' about a Catholic martyr who resisted Hitler. I will leave you with his own words.

“Which Catholic would dare to declare these raids, which Germany had already undertaken in some countries, and continues to carry out, to be a just and holy war?... Who dares to assert that among the German people in this war only one person bears the responsibility, and why then did so many millions of Germans have to give their ‘Yes’ or ‘No’? Who can manage to be a soldier of Christ and at the same time a soldier of national socialism?”

Hotblack Desiato · 16-09-2023 11:31am

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Hotblack Desiato · 16-09-2023 11:41am

Phonsie is a right-wing weirdo who tried to ban yoga in schools! Man is a head case.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1018/1084312-yoga-bishop-school/

A Catholic bishop has written to schools to warn them against the use of yoga during class time and said that it is "not of Christian origin".

A spokesman for Bishop Alphonsus Cullinan, of the Waterford and Lismore diocese, confirmed that primary schools in the diocese under the patronage of the Catholic Church had received the letter, which also asked teachers to pray the rosary with their pupils.

Last year, Bishop Cullinan said that he is establishing a "delivery ministry" of exorcists to deal with evil spirits and also warned people against the use of Reiki and new age healing because they could be channeling "the wrong spirit".

Wanderer78 · 16-09-2023 6:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117621#Comment_121117621

he sounds like a right fcuking idiot alright, if he feels yoga is threatening the church, the church truly is fcuked!

Yellow_Fern · 18-09-2023 7:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114298#Comment_121114298

Very tenuous. You are trying to cast aspersions, but you have no substance so you dont even specify.

Yellow_Fern · 18-09-2023 7:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117621#Comment_121117621

He is right about Yoga. People should be deliberate about their actions. People should not 'go along' with things. Doing a few yoga stretches isn't harmful but doing it properly as a discipline is a Hindu at of prayer. You shouldn't do that if you don't believe in Hindu concepts. I would have thought as a secularist, you'd feel the same way.

I dont know if he would call himself as right wing, but there is nothing wrong with being right wing. It is a healthy part of the political landscape.

Wanderer78 · 18-09-2023 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124529#Comment_121124529

holy fcuk! so yoga is bad for people, even though its well documented now that it helps people maintain good well being, and is even well recommended for those of us that struggle with mental health issues?

Cabaal · 19-09-2023 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112667#Comment_121112667

Lets just get things straight here, in the eyes of the catholic church

Condom use is not good.
Sex before marriage isn't good.
Being a grown adult and deciding to not have any sexual relationship with another adult for your entire life is fantastic.

The catholic church's views on what is normal or not when it comes to sex and relationships is very much warped.

As for schools, the church has always been against sex education in our schools. The current situation and conpsiracry theories being pushed by the religious is just another version of the satanic panic....as we all later learned it was the religious groups that parents should have most worried about when it came to children.

Yellow_Fern · 19-09-2023 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129355#Comment_121129355

You promote a view of human sexuality and I respect your view, but study after study shows that Catholic sexuality is healthy and leads to optimising your chance of stable relationships, good sex lives, stable families and society.

As for schools, no that is not true that it has always been against sex education. It has always been against poor sex education. While your priority might be teaching kids concepts like liberation in reality, the sex education is not necessary high quality. Hence the furore about guides on how to do blow jobs. Sometimes it teaches false concepts that gender is expressed on a spectrum in my minds alone, no actually, gender is bimodal and deeply linked to biology.

I image we share a lot of values. We probably bought have positive views towards seeking love in a sexual relationship or teaching responsibility to your sexual partner or teaching that marriage is an important goal but many sexual education programmes make no mention of this. There is nothing warning about the risk of regret. Nothing on marriage. Nothing on delayed gratification. Catholic views of sex have a lot to offer, even to secular people.

PeaSea · 19-09-2023 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130142#Comment_121130142

study after study shows that Catholic sexuality is healthy and leads to optimising your chance of stable relationships, good sex lives, stable families and society

You'll be able to list and link to study after study then, that shows all this ?

Yellow_Fern · 19-09-2023 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130512#Comment_121130512

This is really nothing to do with our bishop but sure. Happy to link to social science studies of interest. What do you need?

PeaSea · 19-09-2023 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130519#Comment_121130519

Well, study after study that "shows that Catholic sexuality is healthy and leads to optimising your chance of stable relationships, good sex lives, stable families and society" would be a cracking start. I would have thought that was pretty obvious though.

Wanderer78 · 19-09-2023 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130538#Comment_121130538

...this should be interesting, be interesting see what institutions those studies come from to!

Cabaal · 19-09-2023 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130142#Comment_121130142

First thing is first, if you are teaching teenagers about sexual intercourse then its extremely reasonable to also teach them about stuff like going down on their partner. Oral sex is after all a perfectly normal part of a healthy sexual relationship.

But its evident you don't agree because you call blow jobs a "dubious idea", what exactly makes oral sex dubious? I'd welcome your detailed view on this.

Very simply, if the catholic church wants to teach its views then let it use the massive empty church's it has up and down the country to express its views on religion and sex. Freedom from religion in our education system is part of our constitution and the catholic church needs to keep its oar out of our government funded schools.

Anyone that is religious that does not agree with sex education in schools can choose to opt out. They will only miss out on a extremely tiny amount of the school year by doing so. Meanwhile anyone wanting to opt out of catholic religion misses out on 10% of the school year (thats as much time as the schools spent on maths!).

It's a bit rich for the catholic church, which as we all know is run by men who deny themselves the most natural, normal thing in the world (that is a sexual connection with another adult) to label gay people as unnatural and to comment about how oral sex is bad. 🤣.

Yellow_Fern · 19-09-2023 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130773#Comment_121130773

I am not engaging with someone keeps changing topics and introducing new topics like school patronage. Sorry but my time is too valuable.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-09-2023 1:22am

How convenient

Of course these issues are relevant. This man, with his bizarre views, elected by nobody, accountable only to the pope(!), has a significant say in the running of a large number of taxpayer-funded schools. Parents are not opposed to either yoga or sex education but their views count for nothing.,

Cabaal · 20-09-2023 8:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131802#Comment_121131802

Its all part of the one topic, our schools and children's education.

But since you seem incapable of discussing the topic, where are those countless studies you made claims about? You made a claim, you've been asked for the evidence.

If you'd rather not provide them then we'll all assume you've made a false claim.

Gardner · 20-09-2023 8:35am

yellow fern, what an absolute **** lu la

Hotblack Desiato · 20-09-2023 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132612#Comment_121132612

Phonsie and friends have made a very good career out of that sort of thing 😉

Yellow_Fern · 20-09-2023 11:56am

Evidence of a scientific reasoning for Catholic teaching sexuality-

Fewer sexual partners improves marriage quality-https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/10/sexual-partners-and-marital-happiness/573493/

More sexual partners can result in more divorce- https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/the-new-resilience/201606/do-women-more-premarital-partners-get-divorced-less

Cohabitation results in higher divorce rates- https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/meet-catch-and-keep/202101/are-couples-that-live-together-before-marriage-more-likely-to

Conservatives have better sex lives? https://www.vice.com/en/article/paeekv/why-conservatives-have-better-sex-lives-than-liberals

Yellow_Fern · 20-09-2023 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132365#Comment_121132365

You say parents support sex education and yoga, well when parents show opposition, you smear their reputations by calling them far right and driven by hatred? Damned if we do, damned if we don't. If I was, one of those there, I'd sue for libel.

Wanderer78 · 20-09-2023 12:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121133420#Comment_121133420

...its also important to remember the damage of catholic shaming, such as shaming separation and divorce, shaming birth outside of marriage, has also had on our society, and the long term damage it to has done to families and individuals of these families.....