Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

Irish examiner article - Bishop Phonsie

«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 28,187 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    Wow, what a gobshyte.

    Phonsie is Opus Dei, so anything is possible.

    "12 pages in and it still needs to be explained to some posters why this guy ended up where he did. It probably explains why so many gobshites get elected in this country."



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭ SeanieW1977


    Wow, what a gobshyte.

    Phonsie is Opus Dei, so anything is possible.

    This is also very informative;

    https://twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/1102909239947919361?s=21

    Wouldn’t surprise me if Walsh was too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    An embarrassing pair that would like to drag Ireland back to the 50s


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cabaal


    Max Powers wrote: »
    An embarrassing pair that would like to drag Ireland back to the 50s

    Let's face it, the 1950s is their wet dream


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    Not my flock happily :)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40262087.html?type=amp&__twitter_impression=true

    A very strange choice by the bishop for his “right hand man”

    Some extremist views, is it to be assumed these are also the views of the bishop?

    He doesnt have extremist views. Dumb hit job of an Examiner article.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    Max Powers wrote: »
    An embarrassing pair that would like to drag Ireland back to the 50s

    Cabaal wrote: »
    Let's face it, the 1950s is their wet dream

    Another example of how progressives don't care about truth. Your dishonesty is depressing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭ kayaksurfbum


    Another example of how progressives don't care about truth. Your dishonesty is depressing.

    There's only two people you could be!


  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭ SeanieW1977


    and his second name rhymes with either squelsh or burly!! :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    There's only two people you could be!
    and his second name rhymes with either squelsh or burly!! :pac:

    I am prob half the age of the people you refer too. It is mad that you have such confidence in your prejudice that you think that there are only two people who could disagree with you lol


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭ kayaksurfbum


    I am prob half the age of the people you refer too. It is mad that you have such confidence in your prejudice that you think that there are only two people who could disagree with you lol

    The marriage equality and repeal the 8th referendum should have taught me to ignore the far right folk like yourself, but, tell me why do you feel like a minority in your own country???


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭ killbillvol2


    Another example of how progressives don't care about truth. Your dishonesty is depressing.

    Ah the left. The bastards. Opposing child abuse and misogyny. Shame on them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    The marriage equality and repeal the 8th referendum should have taught me to ignore the far right folk like yourself, but, tell me why do you feel like a minority in your own country???

    Are you capable of having discussions with people who disagree with you in good faith? It just seems to me that you are trying to have a rise by calling me far right. If I am far right so is every Irish gov until about 2010.
    Ah the left. The bastards. Opposing child abuse and misogyny. Shame on them.

    I didn't think we were talking about those issues. Catholics oppose child abuse and misogyny. Bishop Phonsie and indeed his predecessor Lee have good records on fighting child abuse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭ SeanieW1977


    Are you capable of having discussions with people who disagree with you in good faith? It just seems to me that you are trying to have a rise by calling me far right. If I am far right so is every Irish gov until about 2010.



    I didn't think we were talking about those issues. Catholics oppose child abuse and misogyny. Bishop Phonsie and indeed his predecessor Lee have good records on fighting child abuse.

    Yea because the Catholic Church has an exemplary record on both counts.

    As for the two names - have a day off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    Yea because the Catholic Church has an exemplary record on both counts.
    You don't get to discredit someone because of what others have done.

    As for the two names - have a day off.

    False allegations were made by trolls on the thread including yourself. You cant blame me for countering them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭ killbillvol2


    You don't get to discredit someone because of what others have done.




    False allegations were made by trolls on the thread including yourself. You cant blame me for countering them.

    What were the false allegations?

    You equated "progressives" with not wanting to return to the 50s of child abuse, misogyny and the stifling, corrupt and toxic influence of the RC church.

    Would you like the church to control peoples' lives? Would you like a return to the Magdalen laundries? Would you like rampant sex with children to be swept under the carpet?

    I don't know what forums you get your backwards views on normally but in the real world progress is a good thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    What were the false allegations?
    Would you like the church to control peoples' lives? Would you like a return to the Magdalen laundries? Would you like rampant sex with children to be swept under the carpet?

    I don't know what forums you get your backwards views on normally but in the real world progress is a good thing.

    It was said that 1950s Ireland was an ideal Catholic mode. This isn't true and the statement is clearly in bad faith.

    It was said that Lee Walsh is an extremist for saying people are pushing abortion to reduce abortion. I doorstepped during the abortion vote and plenty of Waterford people told me abortion is needed here to reduce unwanted kids so to call Walsh an extremist because he said that is farcical.

    Then there was absurd claim that Walsh is a racist. You do realise that his wife isnt Irish? How does that work?

    What were the false allegations?

    You equated "progressives" with not wanting to return to the 50s of child abuse, misogyny and the stifling, corrupt and toxic influence of the RC church.

    I brought the term progressive into the conversation to describe the people who ****etaking. I don't consider these values progressive (really they are naive and anti science) but people should use the endonyms to describe groups. Likewise we call communists this term even they were didn't really establish commune-societies and we call fascists this even though fascists are not united like the term fascio, the Italian word for bundle, of sticks implies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭ uptherebels


    You don't get to discredit someone because of what others have done.

    oh of course, but that isn't the same as catholics continuing support for an organisation that put its money and power above the stopping the atrocities committed against the most defenceless in society.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cabaal



    False allegations were made by trolls on the thread including yourself. You cant blame me for countering them.

    Let me stop you here.
    Your low-level trolling isn't acceptable on this thread, additionally calling other users on this thread trolls will result in your being hit with the ban hammer fairly quickly.

    Any more of this nonsense is going to earn you a ban.

    If you have a problem with a post, report it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    oh of course, but that isn't the same as catholics continuing support for an organisation that put its money and power above the stopping the atrocities committed against the most defenceless in society.

    Can you cite an examples of Waterford and Lismore Diocese doing that? Or any in Ireland? The Catholic Church was way ahead of any organisation in developing safe guards for child protection, especially here in Ireland. If you compare watchdog reports on the Irish Church with HIQAs reports, you will the State has been far slower to implement adequate child protection.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cabaal


    Can you cite an examples of Waterford and Lismore Diocese doing that? Or any in Ireland? The Catholic Church was way ahead of any organisation in developing safe guards for child protection, especially here in Ireland. If you compare watchdog reports on the Irish Church with HIQAs reports, you will the State has been far slower to implement adequate child protection.

    way ahead?
    So did they develop any in the 1950's when they know priests were abusing children?
    nope

    So did they develop any in the 1960's when they know priests were abusing children?
    nope

    So did they develop any in the 1970's when they know priests were abusing children?
    nope

    So did they develop any in the 1980's when they know priests were abusing children?
    nope

    So did they develop any in the 1990's when they know priests were abusing children?
    nope

    Slow clap, they formed the National Board for Safeguarding Children in the Catholic Church in 2008 after launching a policy back in 2005. Oh well done. Aren't the catholic church fantastic?
    :rolleyes:

    Prior to that moving priests around to different parishes so they can re-offend and getting abuse victims to swear silence is not a legitimate form of child protection for any organization.

    What makes it even more reprehensible is the catholic church followed these guidelines from the Vatican for decades.

    You make it sound like the church found out about abuse and instantly decided on some child protection policies.

    The hard reality is the church knew and covered up abuse for decades and only did something with the public backlash became too great and too toxic for them and they were forced into change. The church had no choice.

    But lets not forget they still owe millions to abuse victims and they still think if a priest admits to sexual abuse in confession that they shouldn't report it to the Gardai. - https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0701/1059531-abuse-confession/


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭ Quigs Snr


    Can you cite an examples of Waterford and Lismore Diocese doing that? Or any in Ireland? The Catholic Church was way ahead of any organisation in developing safe guards for child protection, especially here in Ireland. If you compare watchdog reports on the Irish Church with HIQAs reports, you will the State has been far slower to implement adequate child protection.

    Self protection dressed up as child protection. Nothing more. They behave like any other billion dollar corporation when it comes to their own interests.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    Quigs Snr wrote: »
    Self protection dressed up as child protection. Nothing more. They behave like any other billion dollar corporation when it comes to their own interests.

    The Vatican's budget is considerable less than imagine. What would they have to do to be considered as sincere by you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭ killbillvol2


    The Vatican's budget is considerable less than imagine. What would they have to do to be considered as sincere by you?

    They could have issued instructions to bishops to report clerics raping children to the police in their jurisdiction.

    Cost to do so in 2021? 0
    Cost to do so in 1951? 0


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭ killbillvol2


    They could have issued instructions to bishops to report clerics raping children to the police in their jurisdiction.

    Cost to do so in 2021? 0
    Cost to do so in 1951? 0

    Of course that still wouldn't deal with the bishops and archbishops who were at it too.

    It's not like it crept up on them as a new thing:

    In 1531, Martin Luther claimed that Pope Leo X had vetoed a measure that cardinals should restrict the number of boys they kept for their pleasure, "otherwise it would have been spread throughout the world how openly and shamelessly the Pope and the cardinals in Rome practice sodomy."


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    Of course that still wouldn't deal with the bishops and archbishops who were at it too.

    It's not like it crept up on them as a new thing:

    In 1531, Martin Luther claimed that Pope Leo X had vetoed a measure that cardinals should restrict the number of boys they kept for their pleasure, "otherwise it would have been spread throughout the world how openly and shamelessly the Pope and the cardinals in Rome practice sodomy."

    It is true that there have been bad popes and some have lived terrible lives. The claim you made is from a critique made by Luther who earlier in life described this Pope as chaste. There is other evidence that claims he was a practising homosexual, while others claim he was not. I heard read that the most recent biography has said it possible but tentative. However none of these sources claim he was abusing children. That is a recent interpretation that doesn't seem to be in the academic sources.

    Lastly, Leo X was a worldy pope. He was a Medici. It is a unreasonable to try draw a trend line between a Medici pope who lived 500 years ago and 20th cen abuse scandals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭ killbillvol2


    It is true that there have been bad popes and some have lived terrible lives. The claim you made is from a critique made by Luther who earlier in life described this Pope as chaste. There is other evidence that claims he was a practising homosexual, while others claim he was not. I heard read that the most recent biography has said it possible but tentative. However none of these sources claim he was abusing children. That is a recent interpretation that doesn't seem to be in the academic sources.

    Lastly, Leo X was a worldy pope. He was a Medici. It is a unreasonable to try draw a trend line between a Medici pope who lived 500 years ago and 20th cen abuse scandals.

    I see you ignored my earlier post and deflected again. Which is remarkably similar to the Catholic church's tactics through history. It's like it's part of the training in the seminary.

    As I said;

    They could have issued instructions to bishops to report clerics raping children to the police in their jurisdiction.

    Cost to do so in 2021? 0
    Cost to do so in 1951? 0

    In any case there's no point engaging with you. Luckily you're in a diminishing minority that will have died out in another generation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    I see you ignored my earlier post and deflected again. Which is remarkably similar to the Catholic church's tactics through history. It's like it's part of the training in the seminary.

    As I said;

    They could have issued instructions to bishops to report clerics raping children to the police in their jurisdiction.

    Cost to do so in 2021? 0
    Cost to do so in 1951? 0
    .

    To be fair as of 2021 they have. I wish was such measures back in the 1950s. Sadly across wider society this topic recieved little attention, across the west and also in secular states. Indeed the term child sex abuse was not used in the press until about the 1980s (Bingham et al. 2016). In the 1950s there was actually a move away from prosecution which was only very rare. It is only only the 1980s did the issue get serious attention and early 1990s in Ireland.
    In any case there's no point engaging with you. Luckily you're in a diminishing minority that will have died out in another generation.
    I gave a detailed polite response and you come out with this. Sound sound


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭ friendlyfun


    The Vatican's budget is considerable less than imagine. What would they have to do to be considered as sincere by you?

    I'm not an atheist, in fact I would call myself a somewhat religious person, however I find the actions of the Catholic Church reprehensible.

    I don't think you can possibly justify the Vatican's response to pedophilia. Their immediate response was to hide it, or try to silence the victims.

    You had the Pope Emeritus Benedict rediculously try to blame the abuse on the sexual revolution, trying to blame it on an external factor rather than on something that happened organically within the church.

    The Church never fully held up the abusers to their own stringent standards of sexual morality so it illustrates a deep hypocrisy. I don't think you'll convince anyone.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    I'm not an atheist, in fact I would call myself a somewhat religious person, however I find the actions of the Catholic Church reprehensible.

    I don't think you can possibly justify the Vatican's response to pedophilia. Their immediate response was to hide it, or try to silence the victims.

    You are going to have to explain what you mean if you want people to agree with you. I dont know any cases of the Vatican silencing people. As for cover ups, there is no evidence that the Vatican intended for cases to be covered up.
    You had the Pope Emeritus Benedict rediculously try to blame the abuse on the sexual revolution, trying to blame it on an external factor rather than on something that happened organically within the church.

    Plenty of secular academics have said the same thing about child abuse in wider society though. See Bingham et al. 2015 History of education. This is why you got many pedo advocacy groups emerging in the 1960s like the Man Boy Association. In the Dublin Diocese abusers were treated by secular doctors who thought their issues could be easily treated and put them back in the parishes.

    The Church never fully held up the abusers to their own stringent standards of sexual morality so it illustrates a deep hypocrisy. I don't think you'll convince anyone.
    God is the only judge. Church doesnt judge. The only thing the church can do is remove abusers from positions of power.


Advertisement