The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

lulublue22

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Just leaving this here...Paul Reid was complete unaware of this when asked. It looks like a solo run thus far. It has caused a huge amount of confusion and is being criticised all morning on the radio, even by doctors.

It's doesn't alter the justified criticism aimed at the teacher's unions when they demanded priority and threatened strike. To my knowledge the 18-30 year olds are not demanding priority or threatening to strike.

If you see it as 'foaming' and 'vitriol', that's a you problem. I see it as debate.

Agh the justifications have begun - I’m looking forward to your robust debate on the vacc thread.

Cluedo Monopoly

lulublue22 wrote: »

Agh the justifications have begun - I’m looking forward to your robust debate on the vacc thread.

Strange response. I am not justifying anything. That's the job of the HSE, NIAC and NPHET. I already said it was being criticised on the radio this morning. You do know it's not decided right? Paul Reid (HSE CEO) had not even heard about it. Donnelly is examning it just like he is examining his Twitter usage I imagine. Were you expecting people to get angry at 18-30 year olds? I doubt it will happen. I honestly don't get your point but I sense you are not being rational here.

Bubbaclaus

lulublue22 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/under-30s-may-get-vaccinated-early-under-new-plan-being-considered-to-slow-covid-19-1.4539770


Just leaving this here for all those who were foaming at the mouth that teachers had the audacity to raise the issue of vacc for those who work with large numbers in less than ideal conditions. I presume the 18 - 30 year olds who can’t seem to follow guidelines and or restrict their socialising will fall in for the same level of vitriolic abuse as they push the elderly down the vacc queue. Before young teachers are mentioned as a stick they make up 13% of teaching staff.

Your point literally makes no logical sense. Is that deliberate?

Darc19

lulublue22 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/under-30s-may-get-vaccinated-early-under-new-plan-being-considered-to-slow-covid-19-1.4539770


Just leaving this here for all those who were foaming at the mouth that teachers had the audacity to raise the issue of vacc for those who work with large numbers in less than ideal conditions. I presume the 18 - 30 year olds who can’t seem to follow guidelines and or restrict their socialising will fall in for the same level of vitriolic abuse as they push the elderly down the vacc queue. Before young teachers are mentioned as a stick they make up 13% of teaching staff.

Plenty of countries looked at this and I can see the reasoning behind it.

But with most adults getting at least one vaccine shot by end of June, it's probably not worth it.

You'd also have a large cohort thinking that they were invincible after vaccine which would cause further issues

https://www.google.com/search?q=young+people+vaccinated+first&oq=young+people+vaccinated+first&aqs

Triangle

lulublue22 wrote: »

Agh the justifications have begun - I’m looking forward to your robust debate on the vacc thread.

Getting angry at 18-30 yos over something they didn't ask for is just insane. They're not demanding anything. They're not feeling entitled to the vaccine over the elderly.
Donnelly is the force asking for this review. And I'm looking forward to the scientific response.

If NIAC come back and don't recommend it, and if donnelly then goes ahead with it. Then the outrage towards him will commence.

You seem to be arguing with emotion and not logic.

Claw Hammer

lulublue22 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/under-30s-may-get-vaccinated-early-under-new-plan-being-considered-to-slow-covid-19-1.4539770


Just leaving this here for all those who were foaming at the mouth that teachers had the audacity to raise the issue of vacc for those who work with large numbers in less than ideal conditions. I presume the 18 - 30 year olds who can’t seem to follow guidelines and or restrict their socialising will fall in for the same level of vitriolic abuse as they push the elderly down the vacc queue. Before young teachers are mentioned as a stick they make up 13% of teaching staff.

Teachers are demanding vaccination ahead of more deserving people on the basis of their occupation. No under 30 year old is demanding this. The reality is that there is insufficient enforcement of the social distancing measures and the under 30s are the most likely to take advantage of the lax enforcement regime.
The best outcome would be that the teachers would go on strike, be fired and vaccinated under 30's be given the jobs.

khalessi

Triangle wrote: »

Getting angry at 18-30 yos over something they didn't ask for is just insane. They're not demanding anything. They're not feeling entitled to the vaccine over the elderly.
Donnelly is the force asking for this review. And I'm looking forward to the scientific response.

If NIAC come back and don't recommend it, and if donnelly then goes ahead with it. Then the outrage towards him will commence.

You seem to be arguing with emotion and not logic.

Interestingly the teachers didnt feel entitled to vaccine over elderly either. They were asking to be reinstated after elderly and vunerable.

Claw Hammer

khalessi wrote: »

Interestingly the teachers didnt feel entitled to vaccine over elderly either. They were asking to be reinstated after elderly and vunerable.

They did feel entitled though, and still do!

khalessi

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They did feel entitled though, and still do!

No keyboard warriors decided they were entitled. Gov originally had them listed after elderly and vunerable. Asking to be put back on list in cohort 9 and done in tandem is not entitled. But when the schools reopened, they took them off the list, as they got what they wanted, but didnt put in any other safety measures and are just hoping for the best, that the schools can get to the summer without investment. Gov dont care about schools, they grumbled last summer when asked to pay for soap, even suggested schools buy it first and get reimbursed later, but schools didnt have budget. Go with age but to not instigate any safety measures when faced with B117 and P1 is irresponsible.

I see the Prison Officers Union also not happy with vaccine list, but sure thats grand they arent teachers.

Claw Hammer

khalessi wrote: »

No keyboard warriors decided they were entitled. Gov originally had them listed after elderly and vunerable. Asking to be put back on list in cohort 9 and done in tandem is not entitled But schools reopened, then they took them off the list, but didnt put in any other safety measures and are just hoping for the best, that the schools can get to the summer without investment. Gov dont care about schools, they grumbled last summer when asked to pay for soap, even suggested schools buy it first and get reimbursed later, but schools didnt have budget. Go with age but to not instigate any safety measures when faced with B117 and P1 is irresponsible.

I see the Prison Officers Union also not happy with vaccine list, but sure thats grand they arent teachers.

They are back demanding? Are you saying that does not indicate felling entitled?
What kind of a school did you go to?
Comparisons with prison officers are ridiculous in these times. At one time schools were like prisons but since when does a teacher have to be handcuffed to anyone?

Darc19

Notice how quiet the teaching unions got on this?

Pure silence.


They realised that the majority of teachers themselves did not agree with the unions and any ballot for action would fail miserably.

Triangle

khalessi wrote: »

Interestingly the teachers didnt feel entitled to vaccine over elderly either. They were asking to be reinstated after elderly and vunerable.

The elderly are the older people. More prone to dying and serious side effects.

khalessi

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They are back demanding? Are you saying that does not indicate felling entitled?
What kind of a school did you go to?
Comparisons with prison officers are ridiculous in these times. At one time schools were like prisons but since when does a teacher have to be handcuffed to anyone?

What school did I go to? Hmm, well one that knew how to use a dictionary as the two words dont mean same thing and arent synonyms of one another.

entitled
/ɪnˈtʌɪt(ə)ld/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

demand
/dɪˈmɑːnd/
Learn to pronounce
verb
gerund or present participle: demanding
ask authoritatively or brusquely.
"‘Where is she?’ he demanded"

Did I compare Prison Officers? Nope just commented, same way as I commented on doctors who threatened strike in Jan over pay being ok as they aren't teachers either. Better to strike for pay then safety in a pandemic, it seems in the public's eye.

khalessi

Triangle wrote: »

The elderly are the older people. More prone to dying and serious side effects.

Yessssssss trying to see relevence but go for it. And......

Teachers were to be vaccinated after the elderly and vunerable so go on

Claw Hammer

khalessi wrote: »

Yessssssss trying to see relevence but go for it. And......

Teachers were to be vaccinated after the elderly and vunerable so go on

Teachers are no more prone to dying than anyone else. You tried to use the Prison Officers as an excuse for your bloated sense of entitlement. Now you are trying to use doctors.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0417/1210409-covid-19-ireland/

No change to Govt policy on vaccine priority list.

Dr Colm Henry, the HSE's Chief Clinical Officer has said the Covid-19 vaccine is a "precious resource" and medical experts, including NIAC, have decided it is best to have an age-based system that works downwards.

Triangle

khalessi wrote: »

Yessssssss trying to see relevence but go for it. And......

Teachers were to be vaccinated after the elderly and vunerable so go on

No offense khalessi, but you're either ignoring the scientific evidence or you're just ignorant of it.
The older you get the more prone you are to serious side effects.
The unions wanted young people (teachers) vaccinated before more at risk people.

I feel like I'm talking to a child here.

Locotastic

Reading about the summer catch-up programme proposed by Leo, I'd say ASTI will lose their sh*t.

khalessi

Triangle wrote: »

No offense khalessi, but you're either ignoring the scientific evidence or you're just ignorant of it.
The older you get the more prone you are to serious side effects.
The unions wanted young people (teachers) vaccinated before more at risk people.

I feel like I'm talking to a child here.

The unions wanted teachers reinstated after vunerable and elderly where they were placed originally. 13% of staff under 30.

khalessi

Locotastic wrote: »

Reading about the summer catch-up programme proposed by Leo, I'd say ASTI will lose their sh*t.

Have you a link?

Tis grand I found it
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0417/1210504-education-catch-up/

So july provision

Yet so far they havent improved SNA or SET allocation despite increase in number that needs them.

yrreg0850

Darc19 wrote: »

It was looking like the ASTI would not have their annual teacher strike ballot this Easter...

Then they found a topic.

They want healthy 25 year old teaching staff to be vaccinated before those at far far higher risk.


Easter just wouldn't be Easter without the annual strike threat by exceptionally well paid ASTI teachers.


Someday some government minister will have the guts to pull them down several pegs

If they do vote they won't agree to strike.
By the time the votes are counted, and, notice is given it will be at least mid May.
Can you see them going on strike mid May?
If they do strike they will have to make mock shapes and return for one day to safeguard their holidays.
After all what teacher is going to go on strike for June, July and August?

Locotastic

khalessi wrote: »

Have you a link?

Tis grand I found it
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0417/1210504-education-catch-up/

So july provision

Yet so far they havent improved SNA or SET allocation despite increase in number that needs them.

Expanded programme for disadvantaged students, now I wonder what the criteria would be but I'd say the majority from all levels were 'disadvantaged' in some way this year and last.

He's getting his inspiration from Boris so we'll likely just copy what the UK are doing.

khalessi

Locotastic wrote: »

Expanded programme for disadvantaged students, now I wonder what the criteria would be but I'd say the majority from all levels were 'disadvantaged' in some way this year and last.

He's getting his inspiration from Boris so we'll likely just copy what the UK are doing.

More than likely, not sure who he will get to run it though. That could prove a problem.

Locotastic

khalessi wrote: »

More than likely, not sure who he will get to run it though. That could prove a problem.

Of course it would be a problem, I mean what isn't a problem that doesn't involve balloting members on 'up to and including strike action' .

Although you never know, after the carry on since Easter teachers unions might want some humble pie.

briangriffin

Locotastic wrote: »

Of course it would be a problem, I mean what isn't a problem that doesn't involve balloting members on 'up to and including strike action' .

Although you never know, after the carry on since Easter teachers unions might want some humble pie.

You see I know you know the unions were not asking to be vaccinated ahead of the elderly and vulnerable. Just that the government commit to what they had earlier promised which was to vaccinate those working in crowded settings.
The government have prioritised protecting the elderly and vulnerable and getting children back to school, whatever you think about teachers it makes sense to vaccinate people who are working in crowded settings ahead of people working from home just so the people working in crowded settings can continue to work when there is an outbreak.

blanch152

briangriffin wrote: »

You see I know you know the unions were not asking to be vaccinated ahead of the elderly and vulnerable. Just that the government commit to what they had earlier promised which was to vaccinate those working in crowded settings.
The government have prioritised protecting the elderly and vulnerable and getting children back to school, whatever you think about teachers it makes sense to vaccinate people who are working in crowded settings ahead of people working from home just so the people working in crowded settings can continue to work when there is an outbreak.

Teachers are not working in crowded settings, they are not in meat factories, they are not in retail stores, they are in carefully controlled environments.

briangriffin

Triangle wrote: »

No offense khalessi, but you're either ignoring the scientific evidence or you're just ignorant of it.
The older you get the more prone you are to serious side effects.
The unions wanted young people (teachers) vaccinated before more at risk people.

I feel like I'm talking to a child here.

There are older teachers and high risk teachers still working in classrooms around the country. Classrooms where there are 25 to 30 children/ teens at any one time. That creates a substantially greater risk of infection for those already at risk teachers.
If I am 55 and working from home and I am 55 and working in a school I am more exposed to the risk of contracting covid from the 25 to 30 other people who are in the same room as me that's not rocket science is it?
If you think the government will have teachers vaccinated before next September you must be living in lala land remember schools are safe the building kills the virus therefore no need to vaccinate.

blanch152

briangriffin wrote: »

There are older teachers and high risk teachers still working in classrooms around the country. Classrooms where there are 25 to 30 children/ teens at any one time. That creates a substantially greater risk of infection for those already at risk teachers.
If I am 55 and working from home and I am 55 and working in a school I am more exposed to the risk of contracting covid from the 25 to 30 other people who are in the same room as me that's not rocket science is it?
If you think the government will have teachers vaccinated before next September you must be living in lala land remember schools are safe the building kills the virus therefore no need to vaccinate.

The thing you don't get is that it is not about exposure to risk of contracting covid, it is about risk of dying from covid. So, yes a 55-year old teacher (if there are many of those, given they can retire at 55) should be vaccinated ahead of a 55-year old working from home, but that 55-year old working from home should be vaccinated ahead of a 52-year old teacher.

briangriffin

blanch152 wrote: »

Teachers are not working in crowded settings, they are not in meat factories, they are not in retail stores, they are in carefully controlled environments.

😄
Sure, ok what about the 25 kids in the classroom ?
2 of them can't meet outside school in the open air but it's fine for 25 of them to meet indoors with an adult because it's safe, schools are safe.
How are they carefully controlled?
Look I don't mind I much prefer being in class and so do the kids it's better for everyone but don't be spouting nonsense.

briangriffin

blanch152 wrote: »

The thing you don't get is that it is not about exposure to risk of contracting covid, it is about risk of dying from covid. So, yes a 55-year old teacher (if there are many of those, given they can retire at 55) should be vaccinated ahead of a 55-year old working from home, but that 55-year old working from home should be vaccinated ahead of a 52-year old teacher.

Jaysus you honestly have to have a snipe in every single reply, yes lots of people can retire early.
The thing you don't get is if you can't contract the virus because you are working from home then you can't become ill from the virus and you can't pass it on to more vulnerable people in your family.