The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

derb12

FileNotFound wrote: »

Thats a lovely quote but you never attempted to even consider the point that is vaccination has achieved the goals planned by September, will the rapid testing program have the same or significant value?

Your Quote mentions the whole household, so in September you want us to rapid test lots of vaccinated adults??? As if the vaccine program goes to plan this is whats being advised above no?

Talk to the scientists- it is their idea

FileNotFound

derb12 wrote: »

Talk to the scientists- it is their idea

Indeed that is what the department of education will have to do.

Should the answer some back that it ill be ineffective then I would expect no money be wasted on them, should it be agreed it will be effective then fire ahead.

Either way no doubt the teachers will get back to work without a moments delay and we can all agree than any threat of industrial action or prioirtisation in relation to vaccination is and was absolutely absurd and was simply due to mass ignorance on behalf of those supporting it?

Treppen

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have asked you how much you think it will cost and how you I tend to fund it within the parameters that we already have one of the highest percentage of education spending with regard to budgets percentages accross developed nations.

Yes there is I efficiencies accross government spending however demand within those departments will swallow any savings.

It quid quo pro if you pay you teachers more you have to accept the reality of higher class sizes and a reduction in funds you can use elsewhere. That reality. I was not implying that teachers were overpaid rather that the education budget has limits teachers have to accept that budgets are limited.

It like two sets of parents with the same wages one with a single child and one with three children. Everything being equal the children in the larger family will not receive the same as the single child will whether it be in presents, clothes or maybe grinds for exams.

I am semi retired nearly sixty years of age I do not think I be training to become a teacher. The stock reply of joining the profession is just that an attempted put down. It the reply to prevent debate and tries to imply that nobody else has an input into education except teachers.

you're starting from the position that it's a limited budget in a closed system.

This was the reason given to oppose the introduction of 'free' education in 1966... and here we are now!


Meanwhile - to name but a few off the top of my head - :

• No problem with spending over €25,000 euro per day for a couple of TD's to rent out the convention centre. Just to give them the justification to claim their travel and overnight expenses.
  
• Junior Ministers got a 16K pay rise last year. + Awarded 10 new advisors between them at >€80K each
  
• Million for a printer that didn't fit.... just to send TD's christmas cards.
  
• E-Voting (don't forget who the state paid to store them!!!)
  
• Children's Hospital Billions of Euro over budget.
  
• Keeping legal teams on retainer just to gather secret files on vulnerable children and their families.
  
• Moriarty Tribunal -->€60m (Still on going BTW lol!)
• Mahon Tribunal --> €140m
• Disclosers Tribunal --> €8m
  
• Not to mention all the newly discovered hundreds of millions for Micheál's projects in Cork.
  
• Bailing out banks + bondholders (but of course that whole crash thing is now the fault of benchmarking lol!)
  
• Bailing out the Insurance industry.
  
• ...and BTW teachers are still paying for the above 2 through ASC + USC, but "we all partied" right!

... so ya, it's very hard to find the money alright :pac:

Taxburden carrier

Treppen wrote: »

you're starting from the position that it's a limited budget in a closed system.

This was the reason given to oppose the introduction of 'free' education in 1966... and here we are now!


Meanwhile - to name but a few off the top of my head - :

• No problem with spending over €25,000 euro per day for a couple of TD's to rent out the convention centre. Just to give them the justification to claim their travel and overnight expenses.
  
• Junior Ministers got a 16K pay rise last year. + Awarded 10 new advisors between them at >€80K each
  
• Million for a printer that didn't fit.... just to send TD's christmas cards.
  
• E-Voting (don't forget who the state paid to store them!!!)
  
• Children's Hospital Billions of Euro over budget.
  
• Keeping legal teams on retainer just to gather secret files on vulnerable children and their families.
  
• Moriarty Tribunal -->€60m (Still on going BTW lol!)
• Mahon Tribunal --> €140m
• Disclosers Tribunal --> €8m
  
• Not to mention all the newly discovered hundreds of millions for Micheál's projects in Cork.
  
• Bailing out banks + bondholders (but of course that whole crash thing is now the fault of benchmarking lol!)
  
• Bailing out the Insurance industry.
  
• ...and BTW teachers are still paying for the above 2 through ASC + USC, but "we all partied" right!

... so ya, it's very hard to find the money alright :pac:

Hard to find accountability anywhere too.

Locotastic

derb12 wrote: »

Wow - you literally added a full stop to leave out the point my quoted line was making �� ! Almost as if you want to score points rather than have a reasonable debate!

It’s the scientists who are recommending the rapid testing rollout and immediate piloting of same in secondary schools.

Don't see the getting it over the line either way beneficial or not. Look at the legal sh*t already just two weeks after MHQ.

Bubbaclaus

Treppen wrote: »

BTW teachers are still paying for the above 2 through ASC + USC,

I'm sure you are aware that ASC is a pension contribution payment, like everyone else would be paying to get a pension, and everyone pays the income tax USC, not just teachers.

Bass Reeves

Treppen wrote: »

you're starting from the position that it's a limited budget in a closed system.

This was the reason given to oppose the introduction of 'free' education in 1966... and here we are now!


Meanwhile - to name but a few off the top of my head - :

• No problem with spending over €25,000 euro per day for a couple of TD's to rent out the convention centre. Just to give them the justification to claim their travel and overnight expenses. I am sure the government would have been quite happy to deal over Zoom for the last 12 months this was pushed by the opposition to hold the government accountable cost probably 2.5 million
  
• Junior Ministers got a 16K pay rise last year. + Awarded 10 new advisors between them at >€80K each Cost 1.12 million
  
• Million for a printer that didn't fit.... just to send TD's christmas cards. 1 million so
  
• E-Voting (don't forget who the state paid to store them!!!) Historical nothing to do with present budget
  
• Children's Hospital Billions of Euro over budget. I have been critical of this for a long time it was obivious that a greenfield site should have been chosen. Project exceeding costs was really down to the push for it to be next to a teaching hospital. Most of the extra cost was caused by giving too much input to teaching professors in hospitals and universities however its a once off cost
  
• Keeping legal teams on retainer just to gather secret files on vulnerable children and their families. With the way the Irish legal system works its understandable
  
• Moriarty Tribunal -->€60m (Still on going BTW lol!) mostly historical
• Mahon Tribunal --> €140m Historical
• Disclosers Tribunal --> €8m Historical most of us are fed up with legal costs but the legal profession have fought tooth and nail to prevent changes just like Education and health interests.
  
• Not to mention all the newly discovered hundreds of millions for Micheál's projects in Cork. funding to provide social and affordable housing
  
• Bailing out banks + bondholders (but of course that whole crash thing is now the fault of benchmarking lol!) Banking collapse will have cost about 41 billion the Budget deficit has grown by over 200 billion from 2007-2020 159 billion cannot be blamed on the banks.
  
• Bailing out the Insurance industry. Paid by insurance levies nothing to do with government budgets
  
• ...and BTW teachers are still paying for the above 2 through ASC + USC, but "we all partied" right! so are all tax payers we do not want to go back there

... so ya, it's very hard to find the money alright :pac:

So again I ask how do we finance it with an Education budget that is about 25% higher than the EU average as part of over all government spending.

The demands will account to adding about 15-20% to the education budget. the equivlent to about a new children's hospital every year to put it in context.

Valhallapt

Treppen wrote: »

you're starting from the position that it's a limited budget in a closed system.

This was the reason given to oppose the introduction of 'free' education in 1966... and here we are now!


Meanwhile - to name but a few off the top of my head - :

• No problem with spending over €25,000 euro per day for a couple of TD's to rent out the convention centre. Just to give them the justification to claim their travel and overnight expenses.
  
• Junior Ministers got a 16K pay rise last year. + Awarded 10 new advisors between them at >€80K each
  
• Million for a printer that didn't fit.... just to send TD's christmas cards.
  
• E-Voting (don't forget who the state paid to store them!!!)
  
• Children's Hospital Billions of Euro over budget.
  
• Keeping legal teams on retainer just to gather secret files on vulnerable children and their families.
  
• Moriarty Tribunal -->€60m (Still on going BTW lol!)
• Mahon Tribunal --> €140m
• Disclosers Tribunal --> €8m
  
• Not to mention all the newly discovered hundreds of millions for Micheál's projects in Cork.
  
• Bailing out banks + bondholders (but of course that whole crash thing is now the fault of benchmarking lol!)
  
• Bailing out the Insurance industry.
  
• ...and BTW teachers are still paying for the above 2 through ASC + USC, but "we all partied" right!

... so ya, it's very hard to find the money alright :pac:

You do realise just how many TDs are teachers? Including an Taoiseach?

Locotastic

Valhallapt wrote: »

You do realise just how many TDs are teachers? Including an Taoiseach?

The highest represented profession across multiple governments here I believe.

briangriffin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have asked you how much you think it will cost and how you I tend to fund it within the parameters that we already have one of the highest percentage of education spending with regard to budgets percentages accross developed nations.

Yes there is I efficiencies across government spending however demand within those departments will swallow any savings.

It quid quo pro if you pay you teachers more you have to accept the reality of higher class sizes and a reduction in funds you can use elsewhere. That reality. I was not implying that teachers were overpaid rather that the education budget has limits teachers have to accept that budgets are limited.

It like two sets of parents with the same wages one with a single child and one with three children. Everything being equal the children in the larger family will not receive the same as the single child will whether it be in presents, clothes or maybe grinds for exams.

I am semi retired nearly sixty years of age I do not think I be training to become a teacher. The stock reply of joining the profession is just that an attempted put down. It the reply to prevent debate and tries to imply that nobody else has an input into education except teachers.

What would you like me to fund exactly? We have the highest percentage of spending on education across the developed nations? We have the highest paid teachers in comparison to other public sector workers aswell have we? Could you back that up for me also please with some evidence? Is our spending on education disproportionate soley because of our inflated wages for teachers? Again Id love to read how that has come about?

Id start with getting rid of prefabs and investing in actual schools you'd have a classroom built for the cost of renting these on a yearly basis ten times over. Then I'd chop all the capital projects that are unnecessary and exorbitant like the children's hospital and new metro and the unnecessary broadband scheme. Theres billions of savings there.
Of that figure you are quoting over 2 billion is for SEN classes and more should be invested here not less so I would argue the budget should be increased.

And no I said you should train to be a teacher because you are bemoaning the cushy life of teachers and until you have done a days work in a classroom you shouldn't be judging anyone. I've had many jobs I came to teaching as a postgrad so yes I do know what I'm talking about.

Bass Reeves

briangriffin wrote: »

What would you like me to fund exactly? We have the highest percentage of spending on education across the developed nations? We have the highest paid teachers in comparison to other public sector workers aswell have we? Could you back that up for me also please with some evidence? Is our spending on education disproportionate soley because of our inflated wages for teachers? Again Id love to read how that has come about?

Id start with getting rid of prefabs and investing in actual schools you'd have a classroom built for the cost of renting these on a yearly basis ten times over. Then I'd chop all the capital projects that are unnecessary and exorbitant like the children's hospital and new metro and the unnecessary broadband scheme. Theres billions of savings there.
Of that figure you are quoting over 2 billion is for SEN classes and more should be invested here not less so I would argue the budget should be increased.

And no I said you should train to be a teacher because you are bemoaning the cushy life of teachers and until you have done a days work in a classroom you shouldn't be judging anyone. I've had many jobs I came to teaching as a postgrad so yes I do know what I'm talking about.

All the savings you listed are one off expenditures. As I put it in context earlier the demands of teachers is equivilent to a NBP or new children's hospital every year mind you which you say is unnecessary. I agree that the spend on it is out of line with what should have been spend but unnecessary is very questionable

FileNotFound

So have the unions finally accepted their demands for vaccination priority were total nonsense?

Are we just onto whatever else they can dig up?

Or are they still going down the rabbit hole? I see on the Asti website they are still demanding vaccination priority.

briangriffin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

All the savings you listed are one off expenditures. As I put it in context earlier the demands of teachers is equivilent to a NBP or new children's hospital every year mind you which you say is unnecessary. I agree that the spend on it is out of line with what should have been spend but unnecessary is very questionable

Demands of teachers? Should we volunteer then and work for nothing? Lets let all the public sector do that so the guards doctors and everyone else and while we are at it lets stop all pensions, think of the savings wed make.
Utter nonsense.

blanch152

briangriffin wrote: »

And the percentage of teachers salaries from this proportion spent on education. Comparable to our standard of living our social welfare payments politcians salary doctors salaries public sector employees like guards semi private wages Esb etc.
It's teachers lining their pockets keeping class sizes too big so they have handy job with massive salaries and holidays every other week. Fecking teachers

In every other OECD country, primary teachers are paid less than secondary teachers.

Until Irish teachers accept that comparison, there will be no progress on teachers' pay.

Danick

Treppen wrote: »

If you've never been represented by the ASTI during a dispute then you'll never know... Ask a few teachers who have and you'll change your mind on "never achieve anything"

Don't forget Travers as well , if it weren't for ASTI we would have had teachers grading their own students for state exams.

Also ask any teacher who's in a non unionised school, typically you'll find that in a lot of new schools where there's a churn of new teachers every year.

Ya the leaders are as dull as dishwater, but then again you'll never see how they perform when it comes to closed doors. A fiery leader would probably turn a lot of people of unions... anyhow, at the end of the day it's the members who decide to give the strike mandate, not the leaders.

I was focusing directly on strikes here. It’s difficult to believe that a person who can’t string a sentence together without umming and ahing could suddenly become lucid behind closed doors.

Bass Reeves

briangriffin wrote: »

Demands of teachers? Should we volunteer then and work for nothing? Lets let all the public sector do that so the guards doctors and everyone else and while we are at it lets stop all pensions, think of the savings wed make.
Utter nonsense.

You are not working for nothing. You are among the highest paid teaching profession in the developed world. I have never mentioned anything about teachers pensions. I did say we pay all our public servants well. This limits what as a nation we can spend elsewhere. O have never made any reference to cutting teachers or any public servants pay

Darc19

Treppen wrote: »

you're starting from the position that it's a limited budget in a closed system.

This was the reason given to oppose the introduction of 'free' education in 1966... and here we are now!


Meanwhile - to name but a few off the top of my head - :

• No problem with spending over €25,000 euro per day for a couple of TD's to rent out the convention centre. Just to give them the justification to claim their travel and overnight expenses.
  
• Junior Ministers got a 16K pay rise last year. + Awarded 10 new advisors between them at >€80K each
  
• Million for a printer that didn't fit.... just to send TD's christmas cards.
  
• E-Voting (don't forget who the state paid to store them!!!)
  
• Children's Hospital Billions of Euro over budget.
  
• Keeping legal teams on retainer just to gather secret files on vulnerable children and their families.
  
• Moriarty Tribunal -->€60m (Still on going BTW lol!)
• Mahon Tribunal --> €140m
• Disclosers Tribunal --> €8m
  
• Not to mention all the newly discovered hundreds of millions for Micheál's projects in Cork.
  
• Bailing out banks + bondholders (but of course that whole crash thing is now the fault of benchmarking lol!)
  
• Bailing out the Insurance industry.
  
• ...and BTW teachers are still paying for the above 2 through ASC + USC, but "we all partied" right!

... so ya, it's very hard to find the money alright :pac:

Typical tabloid muck that hopes no-one will question anything - but maybe you took it from others and because it suits your agenda, you didn't question anything yourself - so lets correct your statements

1 - Very Important for a dail to sit to debate legislation. Yes it costs €25,000 (zero rent) but much of that €25k would also have been spent in Leinster house. Whoops - did you not know that?

2 - ONE junior minister got a pay rise of 16k as it was an additional junior minister and ensured they were paid the same amount as the others. The optics were not great and the rag tabloids did not report it correctly, but that's not surprising. And then some people believe everything tabloids because they won't check for themselves.

3 - Printer. Yes this was a cock-up by an OPW staff member. Human error. However the additional cost was not €1m it was €314,453. 70% LESS than your BS number

4 - E Voting. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever. But the journalists & media suddenly saw that the 3-5 days of reporting on elections and count centres with the relevant expenses and advertising income would be wiped out as these machines would give accurate results in minutes went on a campaign against them. These machines were not connected to internet. they were all secure standalone machines. They simply could not be hacked. But the media who are not exactly a trustworthy source were having none of it and started the campaign against the machines

5 - Children's Hospital. "Billions" over budget. Total cost will be about 2BN. So for your wild exaggeration to be true would mean it was originally to be built for zero. (I sincerely hope you are not a teacher with this type of BS exaggeration - though it very much in the style of ASTI propaganda)


6 - Legal teams on a retainer. I actually agree with this. Too many people look for compo compo compo. "It's always someone else's fault" it the mantra. So it is prudent for the government to keep updated files where a claim may come in the future. Error was in not keeping the files fully secure.

7. Tribunals. I'll give you that one. Mostly a waste of money because people want "retribution" rather than closing the loopholes, introduce severe penalties and move on.

8 - More tabloid BS. Cork is the second city and all projects went though the same process as others. If anything it has not received the favouritism that other counties got when they had relevant ministers. But there are some who believe every word of a leftist tabloid without checking very basic facts

9 - The old Bank Bailout chestnut. It was a "Banking" bailout. The banks themselves certainly did not get a bailout - it was joe soap the regular person who had their savings in the banks who was bailed out as their saving were protected. Without the banking bailout ASTI would have lost millions as their deposits would have been wiped out. Banks (except those which closed) have mostly repaid the money along with punitive interest and levies. Bank of Ireland have repaid in full. AIB still have a bit to go. The cost will be circa €30bn - almost entirely Anglo & Irish Nationwide. - As for bondholders, they should not be burnt as they are a holy grail for international lending. Iceland burnt bondholders - they ended up paying for that error in higher bond rates for the last 12 years. Ireland has saved BILLIONS from refinancing bonds at zero and negative rates.


Your BS post is exactly why the ASTI are despised by people - full of exaggeration and hype. It why more and more teachers are leaving the ASTI as they simply are sick of the BS spouted by second rate leadership day in day out with a large cohort of retired teachers pulling the strings

Dempo1

FileNotFound wrote: »

So have the unions finally accepted their demands for vaccination priority were total nonsense?

Are we just onto whatever else they can dig up?

Or are they still going down the rabbit hole? I see on the Asti website they are still demanding vaccination priority.

They are still demanding priority but as they've learned after a torrid reputationally bad two weeks, they can demand all they like but their members will be back in the class rooms this morning.

Rarely has a group of Unions acted in such an outrageously dumb, selfish and dare I say childish manner, I suspect humble pie will be on the staff room menu's today.

briangriffin

Darc19 wrote: »

Typical tabloid muck that hopes no-one will question anything - but maybe you took it from others and because it suits your agenda, you didn't question anything yourself - so lets correct your statements

1 - Very Important for a dail to sit to debate legislation. Yes it costs €25,000 (zero rent) but much of that €25k would also have been spent in Leinster house. Whoops - did you not know that?

2 - ONE junior minister got a pay rise of 16k as it was an additional junior minister and ensured they were paid the same amount as the others. The optics were not great and the rag tabloids did not report it correctly, but that's not surprising. And then some people believe everything tabloids because they won't check for themselves.

3 - Printer. Yes this was a cock-up by an OPW staff member. Human error. However the additional cost was not €1m it was €314,453. 70% LESS than your BS number

4 - E Voting. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever. But the journalists & media suddenly saw that the 3-5 days of reporting on elections and count centres with the relevant expenses and advertising income would be wiped out as these machines would give accurate results in minutes went on a campaign against them. These machines were not connected to internet. they were all secure standalone machines. They simply could not be hacked. But the media who are not exactly a trustworthy source were having none of it and started the campaign against the machines

5 - Children's Hospital. "Billions" over budget. Total cost will be about 2BN. So for your wild exaggeration to be true would mean it was originally to be built for zero. (I sincerely hope you are not a teacher with this type of BS exaggeration - though it very much in the style of ASTI propaganda)


6 - Legal teams on a retainer. I actually agree with this. Too many people look for compo compo compo. "It's always someone else's fault" it the mantra. So it is prudent for the government to keep updated files where a claim may come in the future. Error was in not keeping the files fully secure.

7. Tribunals. I'll give you that one. Mostly a waste of money because people want "retribution" rather than closing the loopholes, introduce severe penalties and move on.

8 - More tabloid BS. Cork is the second city and all projects went though the same process as others. If anything it has not received the favouritism that other counties got when they had relevant ministers. But there are some who believe every word of a leftist tabloid without checking very basic facts

9 - The old Bank Bailout chestnut. It was a "Banking" bailout. The banks themselves certainly did not get a bailout - it was joe soap the regular person who had their savings in the banks who was bailed out as their saving were protected. Without the banking bailout ASTI would have lost millions as their deposits would have been wiped out. Banks (except those which closed) have mostly repaid the money along with punitive interest and levies. Bank of Ireland have repaid in full. AIB still have a bit to go. The cost will be circa €30bn - almost entirely Anglo & Irish Nationwide. - As for bondholders, they should not be burnt as they are a holy grail for international lending. Iceland burnt bondholders - they ended up paying for that error in higher bond rates for the last 12 years. Ireland has saved BILLIONS from refinancing bonds at zero and negative rates.


Your BS post is exactly why the ASTI are despised by people - full of exaggeration and hype. It why more and more teachers are leaving the ASTI as they simply are sick of the BS spouted by second rate leadership day in day out with a large cohort of retired teachers pulling the strings

Holy Jaysus come here have a good hard look at yourself there. Its now the ASTIs fault for all govenment waste. is it? The people dont despise teachers or Unions its just a cohort of folks on anonymous internet forums, petty folk. Who are equally despised no doubt.
Well done though I didnt realise the bailout was actually a good thing for our country Il take that nugget with me as gospel just because you said so.
The childrens hospital could have been built for a fraction of the price and was originally costing less than 700m it is now "estimated to cost over 2bn add in the significant cost of inflation of building materials and it will exceed 2 bn so yes you are wrong it will cost billions thats more than on billion - in fact it will be one of the most expensive buildings in the world when built - would you say that is wasteful?

Triangle

briangriffin wrote: »

Holy Jaysus come here have a good hard look at yourself there. Its now the ASTIs fault for all govenment waste. is it? The people dont despise teachers or Unions its just a cohort of folks on anonymous internet forums, petty folk. Who are equally despised no doubt.
Well done though I didnt realise the bailout was actually a good thing for our country Il take that nugget with me as gospel just because you said so.
The childrens hospital could have been built for a fraction of the price and was originally costing less than 700m it is now "estimated to cost over 2bn add in the significant cost of inflation of building materials and it will exceed 2 bn so yes you are wrong it will cost billions thats more than on billion - in fact it will be one of the most expensive buildings in the world when built - would you say that is wasteful?

Despise is a strong word. But 100% of the folks I work with thought the unions were wrong. There wasn't one voice sticking up for them when they decided to go against the scientific numbers.

Bass Reeves

briangriffin wrote: »

Holy Jaysus come here have a good hard look at yourself there. Its now the ASTIs fault for all govenment waste. is it? The people dont despise teachers or Unions its just a cohort of folks on anonymous internet forums, petty folk. Who are equally despised no doubt.
Well done though I didnt realise the bailout was actually a good thing for our country Il take that nugget with me as gospel just because you said so.
The childrens hospital could have been built for a fraction of the price and was originally costing less than 700m it is now "estimated to cost over 2bn add in the significant cost of inflation of building materials and it will exceed 2 bn so yes you are wrong it will cost billions thats more than on billion - in fact it will be one of the most expensive buildings in the world when built - would you say that is wasteful?

I do not know how you can draw inference from what he posted to accuse him of that. Its the same as you accusing me of attacking teachers pay when I posted facts about he amount we spend on Education in this country.

You make massive jumps i conclusions. Ernest Walton split the atom in 1932. From the way you jump to conclusions he is directly to blame for bombing Hirshimo and Nagasaki not only directly he must have flown Enola Gay.

It you who would want to have a good hard look at yourself. You seem to dislike dealing with facts. I taught this was the main stay o the teaching profession the teaching of facts. The way you treat people that give you detail and facts is similar to the way people treated the facts of heliocentrism as expressed by Nicholas Copernicus when he said the world was round and rotated around the sun.

Some of your conclusions equate to similar jumps in thinking

FileNotFound

Triangle wrote: »

Despise is a strong word. But 100% of the folks I work with thought the unions were wrong. There wasn't one voice sticking up for them when they decided to go against the scientific numbers.

Have to say the same for my workplace, seems to be a blanket disapproval for the move in work, family & friends.

briangriffin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You are not working for nothing. You are among the highest paid teaching profession in the developed world. I have never mentioned anything about teachers pensions. I did say we pay all our public servants well. This limits what as a nation we can spend elsewhere. O have never made any reference to cutting teachers or any public servants pay

Stop will you with your nonsense we are living in one of the most developed nations in the world. All our professions are among the highest in the developed world guards solicitors politicians etc.
Your narrative is that teachers are robbing all other professions and the people of the country. All our public servants are paid well but the only one you question is teachers? - I've yet to see any reference for any of what you are spouting you ignored all requests - have a look at our attainment in literacy numeracy and science you might find that teachers aren't terrible at their jobs like so many of you are spouting on here.

briangriffin

Triangle wrote: »

Despise is a strong word. But 100% of the folks I work with thought the unions were wrong. There wasn't one voice sticking up for them when they decided to go against the scientific numbers.

I think despise adequately describes the attitude to teachers on here. Its sad really I think some here are watching to many reruns of Matilda and Ms Trunchbull.
School is a very different place to 20-30 years ago when most here were attending.

Lillyfae

briangriffin wrote: »

I think despise adequately describes the attitude to teachers on here. Its sad really I think some here are watching to many reruns of Matilda and Ms Trunchbull.
School is a very different place to 20-30 years ago when most here were attending.

Some, not all, teachers on here tow the union line no matter how ridiculous the line is. People go on about it not being a hive mind but it doesn't seem like that when multiple people will defend the stance regardless of what the stance is.

In this case the ASTI are hanging themselves and showing the organisation up to be a load of jobsbodies. I say let them. It's clear that there's a gap in the market for a union that's not contrarian and dysfunctional, and I have full belief in the younger generation of teachers to form one now.

EDIT: Without the input from retired teachers of 20-30 years ago, hopefully.

briangriffin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I do not know how you can draw inference from what he posted to accuse him of that. Its the same as you accusing me of attacking teachers pay when I posted facts about he amount we spend on Education in this country.

You make massive jumps i conclusions. Ernest Walton split the atom in 1932. From the way you jump to conclusions he is directly to blame for bombing Hirshimo and Nagasaki not only directly he must have flown Enola Gay.

It you who would want to have a good hard look at yourself. You seem to dislike dealing with facts. I taught this was the main stay o the teaching profession the teaching of facts. The way you treat people that give you detail and facts is similar to the way people treated the facts of heliocentrism as expressed by Nicholas Copernicus when he said the world was round and rotated around the sun.

Some of your conclusions equate to similar jumps in thinking

knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

Claw Hammer

It is fairly obvious that the reason teachers want to be take out of turn is that if it is done by age, the students will find out how old the teachers are. Tecahers will just have to face up to the fact that students will know the year of their birth from now on.

Bass Reeves

briangriffin wrote: »

knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

Well you are the lad putting it in the fruit salad

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It is fairly obvious that the reason teachers want to be take out of turn is that if it is done by age, the students will find out how old the teachers are. Tecahers will just have to face up to the fact that students will know the year of their birth from now on.

Definitely, an alarming prejudice that splinters fragile egos. Not in any way motivated by entitled twenty/thirty somethings receiving their vaccine clearance for the Mediterranean before July.

FileNotFound

briangriffin wrote: »

knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

Useless quotes are often used when someone has nothing intelligent left to say. Guess we can now all agree with the people you've been having a discussion with?