Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

Tell me how · 30-05-2021 2:30pm

Hhhhh wrote: »

I gave a hypothetical like you asked:

Maybe if you weren't so quick jumping to conclusions you would've read my post.

Where have I claimed there is no evidence of individual racism in police forces? More conclusion jumping, and this based off literally two interactions, considering you 'don't remember' our last ones.

I already answered you question, see above.

What's this got to do with police being trained to be racist, or being trained to engage in racist activities?

Which is not evidence of 'systematic racism'.

No, when these people engage in racism, as per your example above, they get fired. The answer, which is what you are doing, is assuming every perceived negative encounter a black person has with the police, particularly if the policeman is white, is a result of racism. What percentage of the police would you estimate are racists, because you must believe it to be quite high?

Todd Wright wasn't fired. Maybe you should take more time to read posts also. And your view that this is not evidence of systemic racism is choosing to not look at the likely reality of someone with such views being in a position of authority over other police officers.

I expect that a large number of the nearly 18,000 police forces in America are likely to have engrained elements which are rooted in prejudiced views and actions being carried out against some people in the communities in which they police.

And no, I am not saying that every police force or officer is racist, or that the exact, irrefutable figure is possible to determine, I am saying that because there are some action is needed, you are saying that because there are unknowns, everyone should get the benefit of the doubt until they categorically prove that they are so.

Tell me how · 30-05-2021 2:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Joe Arpaio also a great element of racist law enforcement that the former president pardoned and used use for campaigning purposes.

Exactly.

Refused to stop racial profiling and when convicted for disobeying the court order for doing so, the President of the country pardoned him.

The same President who police force unions came out in support of and who aligned himself with a racist organization.

30-05-2021 3:35pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Todd Wright wasn't fired. Maybe you should take more time to read posts also. And your view that this is not evidence of systemic racism is choosing to not look at the likely reality of someone with such views being in a position of authority over other police officers.

No, it's accepting that one racist individual doesn't make a system racist. He 'resigned' in the sense that had he not resigned he would've been fired.

Tell me how wrote: »

I expect that a large number of the nearly 18,000 police forces in America are likely to have engrained elements which are rooted in prejudiced views and actions being carried out against some people in the communities in which they police.

And no, I am not saying that every police force or officer is racist, or that the exact, irrefutable figure is possible to determine, I am saying that because there are some action is needed, you are saying that because there are unknowns, everyone should get the benefit of the doubt until they categorically prove that they are so.

I'm not suggesting you are saying every police officer is racist, I don't know why you felt to add that. I'm asking you to give a guesstimate as to what proportion you suspect are.

As regards to yours last point. Yes, people should get the benefit of the doubt, less they have some sort of dubious history themselves.

Overheal · 03-06-2021 3:04pm

Well this is gas. Chauvin is arguing he be sentenced to time already served for murdering George Floyd because, “ his lack of criminal history, his amenability to probation, to the unusual facts of this case, and to his being a product of a ‘broken’ system.”

Absolutely hilarious. I didn’t get qualified immunity so the system is broken help meeeee

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/live-trials-current/george-floyd-death/convicted-murderer-derek-chauvin-says-he-should-get-probation-instead-of-prison-because-the-system-is-broken/

Mic 1972 · 03-06-2021 4:51pm

Overheal wrote: »

Well this is gas. Chauvin is arguing he be sentenced to time already served for murdering George Floyd because, “ his lack of criminal history, his amenability to probation, to the unusual facts of this case, and to his being a product of a ‘broken’ system.”

Absolutely hilarious. I didn’t get qualified immunity so the system is broken help meeeee

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/live-trials-current/george-floyd-death/convicted-murderer-derek-chauvin-says-he-should-get-probation-instead-of-prison-because-the-system-is-broken/

Well, he's pulling the same argument that "oppressed" people are using when looking for excuses to their misbehavior

Overheal · 03-06-2021 4:56pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Well, he's pulling the same argument that "oppressed" people are using when looking for excuses to their misbehavior

Quite the opposite, arguing that the system was too broken to defend murder by badge.

Mic 1972 · 03-06-2021 7:10pm

Overheal wrote: »

Quite the opposite, arguing that the system was too broken to defend murder by badge.

Same argument, broken system makes people criminals
He has a point

Tell me how · 03-06-2021 7:33pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Same argument, broken system makes people criminals
He has a point

So do you agree with him and would support calls for the reform of policing in the US?

Overheal · 03-06-2021 7:34pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Same argument, broken system makes people criminals
He has a point

the system didn't make him choke that guy out. The system urged him to put Floyd in the recovery position - so did at least one of the other officers on scene, along with a dozen or so bystanders. The only thing the system did was call him out for a fake $20, it was his call to escalate it to murder.

If he means something else is broken he should be more specific.

Mic 1972 · 03-06-2021 7:43pm

Let's be clear, I'm not in favor of de-funding the police, more cops would be the better options for certain neighborhoods
But I do appreciate the irony of Chauvin pulling the exact same argument about the failed system that makes people criminals, because that's the same argument used to defend drug dealers, looters and the likes.

Mic 1972 · 03-06-2021 7:44pm

Tell me how wrote: »

So do you agree with him and would support calls for the reform of policing in the US?

that's not what I said
he has a point in pulling the same logic

Tell me how · 03-06-2021 7:49pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

that's not what I said
he has a point in pulling the same logic

I didn't say you said anything, I asked a question.

If you think he has a point, you must think the system needs to be reformed, or it is ok as it is.

Which is it?

03-06-2021 8:02pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

that's not what I said
he has a point in pulling the same logic

Except the strength of his argument in this case is incredibly weak..

Mic 1972 · 03-06-2021 8:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Except the strength of his argument in this case is incredibly weak..

it's weak in both cases, that's why he pulled it

Mic 1972 · 03-06-2021 8:29pm

Tell me how wrote: »

I didn't say you said anything, I asked a question.

If you think he has a point, you must think the system needs to be reformed, or it is ok as it is.

Which is it?

I stand by what I said, but I admire your ability to project

Tell me how · 03-06-2021 8:51pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I stand by what I said, but I admire your ability to project

And your ability to recognize the corner you backed yourself in to and are now refusing to give an opinion one way or the other.

Mic 1972 · 03-06-2021 9:05pm

Tell me how wrote: »

And your ability to recognize the corner you backed yourself in to and are now refusing to give an opinion one way or the other.

I dont owe you an opinion, you can like or dislike what i say
But i admire your imagination

Tell me how · 03-06-2021 9:11pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I dont owe you an opinion, you can like or dislike what i say
But i admire your imagination

You don't know how discussions work either it seems.
Or else I am correct in my assumption.

Mic 1972 · 04-06-2021 2:16pm

Tell me how wrote: »

You don't know how discussions work either it seems.
Or else I am correct in my assumption.

whichever floats your boat mate

Tell me how · 04-06-2021 2:46pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

whichever floats your boat mate

So what changes do you think would be a good place to start so that cops stop feeling that the system as it is leads them to carry out some acts which they might have been told are appropriate but are clearly not.

If you were chief of a police force or Mayor of a city, how would you go about making these changes?

Mic 1972 · 04-06-2021 2:53pm

Tell me how wrote: »

So what changes do you think would be a good place to start so that cops stop feeling that the system as it is leads them to carry out some acts which they might have been told are appropriate but are clearly not.

If you were chief of a police force or Mayor of a city, how would you go about making these changes?

No idea why you are asking me?

Tell me how · 04-06-2021 3:13pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

No idea why you are asking me?

Well, you are taking part in the discussion here and you introduced the topic that this might be the case.

Are you saying you don't want to discuss something you brought up?