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Dublin Lord Mayor Hazel Chu to stand as Independent in Seanad elections

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    #62
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    What has she done to deserve a place in the Seanad?

    Then again, what have 3/4 of them done to deserve a place there.

    Such a mistake not getting rid of it.

    A home for the unelectable


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    #63
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Can you just do one thing without it being identity politics hazel, just one.

    No, she can't. Total one trick pony. Indulging in woke populism and regressive, divisive showboating.


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    #64
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »
    That's the bould Hazel herself saying that, no? I think as far as the Green Party is concerned there is/was a pact.

    No, the pact was between FF and FG. Ryan was told he would get dibs if anything else comes up. The party executive agreed to not contest the seat but didn't get the majority needed to whip. Without a whip, they can't do anything.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1374772748501811201?s=20


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    #65
    Marcos
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭Marcos


    One question, if she gets thrown out of the Greens, or resigns from them, will she then have to resign as Lord Mayor, as she was nominated by the Greens as part of an electoral pact?

    If she does, I can't see going easily, she'd have to be dragged out of the Mansion House.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



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    #66
    Yakov P. Golyadkin
    Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭Yakov P. Golyadkin


    Peregrine wrote: »
    No, the pact was between FF and FG. Ryan was told he would get dibs if anything else comes up. The party executive agreed to not contest the seat but didn't get the majority needed to whip. Without a whip, they can't do anything.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1374772748501811201?s=20

    Ah, thank you for that.


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    #67
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Peregrine wrote: »
    No, the pact was between FF and FG. Ryan was told he would get dibs if anything else comes up. The party executive agreed to not contest the seat but didn't get the majority needed to whip. Without a whip, they can't do anything.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1374772748501811201?s=20

    My favourite part is, now instead of waiting her turn and probably getting it by default..... or calling anyone in the party who contested her a racist.... she's now left a sour taste and either won't be in the party or won't get the nod next time around.


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    #68
    PunkIPA
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭PunkIPA


    Reati wrote: »
    It's a pity memory is short and every few GEs people vote the greens in to be reminded why you never vote for the greens.

    They are a shambles on a good day.
    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    My favourite part is, now instead of waiting her turn and probably getting it by default..... or calling anyone in the party who contested her a racist.... she's now left a sour taste and either won't be in the party or won't get the nod next time around.

    She has massively overplayed her hand alright, all in the name of a total pyrrhic victory. If another vacancy comes up in the course of this Seanad, she would have been the prime candidate for election, assuming Ryan's sweetheart deal is real.

    In the event that the deal with FF/FG isn't a formal one, by going rogue now she is giving them a perfect reason to go back on that whenever the next vacancy comes up.


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    #69
    TheDavester
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭TheDavester


    Marcos wrote: »
    One question, if she gets thrown out of the Greens, or resigns from them, will she then have to resign as Lord Mayor, as she was nominated by the Greens as part of an electoral pact?

    If she does, I can't see going easily, she'd have to be dragged out of the Mansion House.

    i think her term is up in May....probably leave her there till then


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    #70
    PunkIPA
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭PunkIPA


    Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but the Lord Mayor openly called for Minister Ryan to stand down as leader in advance of the next election this afternoon.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/there-was-no-pact-green-party-chairperson-hazel-chu-denies-deal-with-government-parties-for-seanad-seats-40234761.html

    “I think that 15 years at that stage will be a very long time for going into another leadership with the same person.”

    She is also, unsurprisingly, endorsing Minister Martin to take over. Looks like a declaration of war.


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    #71
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Marcos wrote: »
    One question, if she gets thrown out of the Greens, or resigns from them, will she then have to resign as Lord Mayor, as she was nominated by the Greens as part of an electoral pact?

    If she does, I can't see going easily, she'd have to be dragged out of the Mansion House.

    Being Lord Mayor has nothing to do with national politics. She's Lord Mayor through a Dublin City Council pact with SD, FF and Labour which predates the 2020 general election. According to the Local Government Act 2001, removing her would require one third of members to sign the motion and three quarters would have to vote for it which is near impossible. She's Lord Mayor until June and has support within Dublin City Council.


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    #72
    Marcos
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭Marcos


    Thanks for your clear answer Peregrine.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



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    #73
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Marcos wrote: »
    One question, if she gets thrown out of the Greens, or resigns from them, will she then have to resign as Lord Mayor, as she was nominated by the Greens as part of an electoral pact?

    If she does, I can't see going easily, she'd have to be dragged out of the Mansion House.

    She personally was elected by the council so she would remain in position until the end of her term.


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    #74
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Peregrine wrote: »
    No, the pact was between FF and FG. Ryan was told he would get dibs if anything else comes up. The party executive agreed to not contest the seat but didn't get the majority needed to whip. Without a whip, they can't do anything.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1374772748501811201?s=20

    So basically jobs for the boys /girls. What a joke it is


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    #75
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,810 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    I've always been baffled by the whole Hazel Chu phenomenon. The media fawn over her for achieving something not particularly impressive (I couldn't name any former Lord Mayors of Dublin...was there a Brabazon?) and then they use the fact she has high media profile (that they gave her) to give her more exposure, in a Kardashianesque "Famous for being famous" perpetuation.

    It's also telling that aside from being a woman, she ticks all the same identity politics boxes as Leo Varadkar. Yet the media never really gushed over Leo achieving more than Chu ever will, because he's not vocally woke and doesn't play the minority card all the time.


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    #76
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    I've always been baffled by the whole Hazel Chu phenomenon. The media fawn over her for achieving something not particularly impressive (I couldn't name any former Lord Mayors of Dublin...was there a Brabazon?) and then they use the fact she has high media profile (that they gave her) to give her more exposure, in a Kardashianesque "Famous for being famous" perpetuation.

    It's also telling that aside from being a woman, she ticks all the same identity politics boxes as Leo Varadkar. Yet the media never really gushed over Leo achieving more than Chu ever will, because he's not vocally woke and doesn't play the minority card all the time.

    Exactly it, didn't know any of them or hear of them before the magical position.....

    The actual people of Dublin should be able to vote.


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    #77
    Hamachi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Exactly it, didn't know any of them or hear of them before the magical position.....

    The actual people of Dublin should be able to vote.

    The sooner Ms. Chu shuffles off back into obscurity, the better for everybody.

    She really is a dose. I’m not sure how she’ll cope when deprived of the oxygen of attention.


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    #78
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,934 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Personally she's as entitled as anyone to run but I can't get my head around this constant infighting in the Green Party generally. It's abundantly clear there's 3 factions within this party.

    Leaders Group
    Deputy Leaders Group
    The group who've left having had enough of this nonsense.

    It's a complete mystery as to what they are doing in Government, actually its even more mysterious as to what they do generally.

    Not to difficult to predict how this will end, we've been here before, albeit it will be a total wipe out next time around.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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    #79
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    Personally she's as entitled as anyone to run but I can't get my head around this constant infighting in the Green Party generally. It's abundantly clear there's 3 factions within this party.

    Leaders Group
    Deputy Leaders Group
    The group who've left having had enough of this nonsense.

    It's a complete mystery as to what they are doing in Government, actually its even more mysterious as to what they do generally.

    Not to difficult to predict how this will end, we've been here before, albeit it will be a total wipe out next time around.

    Hopefully and the sooner the better.


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    #80
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    .....

    Not to difficult to predict how this will end, we've been here before, albeit it will be a total wipe out next time around.
    I actually like Eamon Ryan; he's the heart and soul of the party. But there is a cohort that is using the party for their own purposes and to further their own agenda. Just looking at the damage done by Roderic O' Gorman alone, I can see them getting decimated at the next general election. If only they adhered to the policies that the voters in the last election thought they would follow i.e. environment and sustainability, then they would have grown as a political party.

    But now there is an implosion coming .......... of their own making.


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    #81
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I could see her getting into a lucrative career in an NGO.


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    #82
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »
    That's the bould Hazel herself saying that, no? I think as far as the Green Party is concerned there is/was a pact.

    Thats the Chairperson of the Party saying it.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #83
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I could see her getting into a lucrative career in an NGO.
    Yes, there is big money to be made in the Irish NGO industry. We have more NGOs per capita than any other nation on the planet. Go figure.


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    #84
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    The greens used to be the unpopular party that attracted reps with integrity looking to implement change.

    Gormley
    Ryan
    Sargent etc...

    Now it appears to be the popular/cool party that attracts reps looking to make a career for themselves.


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    #85
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,408 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    PunkIPA wrote: »
    Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but the Lord Mayor openly called for Minister Ryan to stand down as leader in advance of the next election this afternoon.

    “I think that 15 years at that stage will be a very long time for going into another leadership with the same person.”

    She is also, unsurprisingly, endorsing Minister Martin to take over. Looks like a declaration of war.

    He's there 10 years, was voted in after they left government in 2011. She should get her facts right, but 10 years ago she had nothing to do with the Green's anyway.


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    #86
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Yes, there is big money to be made in the Irish NGO industry. We have more NGOs per capita than any other nation on the planet. Go figure.
    Like a woman in UN said; "Is everyone in Ireland in an NGO?"


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    #87
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Annasopra wrote: »
    Thats the Chairperson of the Party saying it.

    Hazel Chu is the Chairperson of the party, so it was her saying it?


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    #88
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    Once she gets in she will make some big changes.


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    #89
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Wonder how I'd get into an NGO.... Could really do with the money


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    #90
    Underground
    Registered Users Posts: 2,473 ✭✭✭Underground


    L1011 wrote: »
    So there's 160 TDs and 58 Senators currently, which is the entire electorate for this. 218, so 110 votes needed to win on the first count.

    There's at least four candidates
    FF/FG: Gerry Horkan
    Labour: Ciaran Ahern
    Who Knows: Hazel Chu
    Independent: Billy Lawless.

    FF/FG have 107 votes between them here; and its quite clear the 3 existing Green Senators are now voting for the FF/FG candidate, along with some of the Green TDs. There's >110 votes and its done on the first count. A few FF/FG votes may go elsewhere but not in any number.

    Anyone running against Horkan is doing it for PR purposes. Ahern will get Labours 11 votes and may get one or two independents if he's lucky. Lawless will get a tiny handful of Independent votes.

    Chu knows this, and is doing it for PR purposes too - she cannot win.


    (the other panel is potentially more likely to go away from the FF/FG candidate, as SF + a number of the smaller parties are backing Ian Marshall, and there is more chance of an FF/FG vote slipping to him in the secrecy of the ballot)

    Thanks for explaining that. I wasn't up to speed on the mechanics of Seanad by elections.

    So she is simply doomed to fail on this due to parliamentary arithmetic and is obviously aware of this. What odds could I get on her failure to get into the Seanad being blamed on racism / sexism if / when the time comes?

    I hate that I'm even thinking of asking questions like the above, but it's all she talks about so I know she'll go there.


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    #91
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    PunkIPA wrote: »
    The Green Party vote comes, largely, from comfortable, middle-class voters who can afford to prioritise environmental policies over issues of the economy etc.

    Assuming we will go through a period of moderate recession in the coming years as a consequence of the pandemic response, their natural voter base is going to be severely eroded.

    Green polices absolutely do not contradict addressing "issues" in the economy. We built our food export business on being "Green". Building wind & hydro over importing oil is a no brainer.

    The problem as an earlier poster mentioned is that many in the Greens are Watermelons who want to introduce other agendas. The simple option would be for mainstream parties to take on more Green policies for those "comfortable middle-class voters" who believe that the free market can be integrated with environmentalism by simply making sure the cost of using the environment is fully accounted for driving the right behaviors.


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