Cycle infrastructure planned for north Dublin

Seth Brundle

I've cycled along those sorts of paths with my family, and it's really pleasant and stress free

So what is the purpose of the proposed works? Is it for people who want to use a bike instead of a car for day-to-day activities or for people who occasionally want to travel casually along by the sea maybe with an ice-cream?

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842083#Comment_118842083

I've no idea, I don't live anywhere near it, and I'm unlikely to ever use it. I was just responding to the post about it looking like a really stressful place to walk or cycle.

I'll agree that it doesn't look like the sort of place you could cycle along at any great speed, but if I go back to the example from Spain, there were plenty of people not cycling on the promenade, but cycling on the road beside it. Those people definitely cycle faster than what I'd be doing in the shared space.

Squidgy Black

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118841983#Comment_118841983

They tend to be much wider though no?

I wouldn’t have an issue with a shared space like that if it wasn’t for the fact that it was so narrow at points due to the planters, which will also lead to people crossing into others paths etc

magicbastarder

the issue there would be any commuting cyclist who wants to maintain a decent clip would be more likely to earn the ire of motorists if a shared space was provided; shared spaces, by their very design, are not intended for cyclists to maintain 25km/h+

the path from clontarf out to sutton is a shared space for much of it also, but benches and planters are absent.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842445#Comment_118842445

They are, in spots, they also narrow down considerably too.

I suppose the question that Seth asked above is the most relevant. What's the stated purpose of the path. Are they building a commuting corridor for people who are choosing to cycle to work etc instead of drive, or are they building a seaside shared public space amenity

Seth Brundle

My fear is that the designers think it should be used by both with the main aim of the project to make the roads clear for cars

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843488#Comment_118843488

Could it be both? If you're commuting to work on a Tuesday morning at 8am, you're unlikely to meet families with buggies and scooters, eating ice cream.

Likewise, on a Sunday afternoon you'll be less likely to be commuting in and out to work.

I understand that there's overlap of both things there.

Mercian Pro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843940#Comment_118843940

It's reverting back to the early days of the Sutton to Clontarf cycleway. DCC learnt that mixing cyclists and walkers on a single shared path was bad news and has been moving towards segregated paths for both. Fingal don't seem to have realised that mixing walkers, joggers, scooters, etc with family, leisure and commuting cyclists will lead to chaos and inevitable accidents. They wouldn't consider mixing two-way traffic on a busy road without road markings and the Rules of the Road but here it's everyone for themselves with some planters thrown in to increase the risks. Oddly enough, on a shorter section behind the tennis club in Malahide, they have hedged their bets by giving two options - a shared path or a cantilevered walkway with the existing path for cyclists only.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843940#Comment_118843940

Perhaps not families as such but there would be a lot of walkers, dog walkers and buggie walkers in that vicinity early in the morning. It's also very popular with commuting cyclists and 'training' cyclists. The way it's depicted in that footage wouldn't appeal to me.

Atlantic Dawn

Why not put trees and flowerbeds at random points in that stretch of road for the cars to slam to a halt and go around, remove the road markings for additional 'fun', seems to be the very same idea they are proposing for cyclists to do. If the council want fancy day out material they should build 2 pier style island points 50 metres out in to the estuary at each end of the stretch where people can chill out and mix with trees and flowerbeds away from cycle, road and pedestrian traffic who simply want to get from A to B without unnecessary delay.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844407#Comment_118844407

As I said, I don't really know the area.

I would ask, though, are there any dedicated cycle lanes around the city that are suitable for "training" cyclists?

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844226#Comment_118844226

DCC combined the pedestrian and cycling paths through Fairview park int a shared space, just so they couldn't be held accountable for a cyclist hitting a pedestrian who had wandered into the cycle path.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844588#Comment_118844588

Few enough, but the more relevant factor is going to be the complete unsuitability for commuting cyclists seeing as that is where we want to see a modal shift. And you won't with that setup.

Effects

It'll leave cyclists on the road having more interactions from aggressive drivers who expect them to not be on the road.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846289#Comment_118846289

This 100%

Effects

I constantly witness inbound cyclists in Fairview getting beeped. And in the Facebook groups, people are already complaining that "you'll still get cyclists on the road".

Mercian Pro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844588#Comment_118844588

The main avenue in St Anne's is perfect as are the closed off sections of road in the Phoenix Park. I suspect parts of Malahide Castle, Newbridge House and Ardgillan are suitable too. I'm not familiar with the South and West-side parks.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829189#Comment_118829189

I think that looks great. The timeline says it won't be complete until 2027 though

Breezer

I think that looks horrific for all the reasons already mentioned. I’ll be making a submission. Thanks for highlighting.

Effects

Roadworks actually started on the C2CC today. Sliproad onto Alfie Byrne closed, and the island in the centre of the road being dug up.

Lane closure works due to start at the end of the week, at nighttime.

mr spuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848062#Comment_118848062

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118849263#Comment_118849263

Is it better than what's there today? YES!

Does it fall short of the standard we should be aspiring to? Also YES! Whatever your view, engaging with and responding to the consultation is important so please do submit your thoughts.

osiri

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848062#Comment_118848062

Yeah, I think it looks fantastic for the most part. There are quite a few toucan crossings where you have to cede priority to cross the road etc which can be frustrating but might not be that bad in reality.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the artist's impression. They are going for aesthetics in the video rather than practicality, they are hardly going to show lads in full tour de france gear throwing away bidons in advance of the strand road strava segment.

In reality if you choose to commute from Malahide/Portmarnock in to town along this route you will be doing it for the benefits of being off road and the nice views rather than for pure time saving purposes. And taking care to avoid the occasional buggy or walker along the shared sections would be preferable to having hundreds of cars, trucks and buses flying past on the road before having to squeeze past them when they get stopped at every set of lights.

The timeline is a bit depressing alright.

Wishbone Ash

In reality if you choose to commute from Malahide/Portmarnock in to town along this route you will be doing it for the benefits of being off road and the nice views rather than for pure time saving purposes.

Many cycling commuters from Swords and other areas further north in NCD use that coastal route to lengthen their commute rather that to benefit from being off road. I don't know anyone who uses it for the views.

Pete_Cavan

I don't see the reason for the cycle lanes/shared space to switch from sea side to land side north of Portmarnock. Surely it works better on the sea side as there are less driveways, just shift the road west which gives the space needed on the other side. Also through Portmarnock, having bi-directional lanes on one side would be preferable, space could be take along the school and church without much issue.

At Baldoyle, there is a 450mm buffer plus a 450mm wall between promenade, that space could be a verge with shrubs/trees, avoiding the need for planting in the promenade itself.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842877#Comment_118842877

Well as a public facility, it will be available to anyonewalking or cycling who wants to use it. At the same time, everybody using it will have to respect other users so cyclists should not be looking to maintain significant speeds along much of this route.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852409#Comment_118852409

Sure, I think these routes are aimed at leisure cyclists and commuters who are less confident on the road. No question there will still be some cyclists on the road, such as groups or any faster cyclists at weekends particularly.

I really like the section along the Grand Hotel in Malahide that extends out over the sea. Looks a bit like the Liffey boardwalk. That section of path can be quite congested even with walkers and joggers at the moment.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853615#Comment_118853615

Fair enough but the problem is that cyclists who don't want to use it will feel pressurised to use it as most motorists will assume that they shouldn't be on the road (just like the situation on the road beside the current Sutton/Clontarf track).

osiri

Many cycling commuters from Swords and other areas further north in NCD use that coastal route to lengthen their commute rather that to benefit from being off road. I don't know anyone who uses it for the views.

So people are going out of their way to commute by bike along a very scenic, coastal route, possibly the only route in to Dublin with a good few kms of segregated cycle lanes, but they are not doing it to enjoy the coastal views or off road cycle paths?

Ultimately these type of cycle lanes are not designed primarily to accommodate cyclists on road bikes travelling at speeds in excess of 25km/h. There are plenty of roads without cycle lanes where you can tip along as fast as you like.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854021#Comment_118854021

I'm sure any cyclist who chooses to cycle on the road when a separate cycle lane is available is well aware of their entitlement to use the road and does so in spite of what motorists think.

In any case, there looks to be plenty of space available at Baldoyle that a shared space isn't necessary. The proposed cross section is; road | 900mm buffer + wall | 6m shared space. I would suggest a better option would be road| 2 x 1.5m cycle lanes with a suitable kerb/wands separating them from the road | 900mm seating/planting | 3m pedestrian promenade. The road speed limit through Baldoyle should be 30km/h.

shoegirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118840435#Comment_118840435

Interestingly I've seen people already cycling it as I pass by on the road on my own bike.

Would be nice without all the clutter.

For me, I'd prefer they did something about the stretch of the Howth Rd past Sutton where the "cycle lane" has partially collapsed into the gutter.