Cycle infrastructure planned for north Dublin

magicbastarder

https://twitter.com/CatzStocker/status/1374460839227363342

who's north dublin's mannix flynn?

buffalo

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://twitter.com/CatzStocker/status/1374460839227363342

who's north dublin's mannix flynn?

I'd say Christy Burke or maybe Nial Ring, but it's probably Mannix Flynn.

Eamonnator

Who's North Dublin's Labre34?. That's what I want to know.

MojoMaker

Labre34 oddly enough :pac:

Eamonnator

MojoMaker wrote: »

Labre34 oddly enough :pac:

I'll get the popcorn.

Larbre34

I'll be watching. I'm always watching......

In fairness, I don't particularly give a stuff about any individual project. What I do care about is all projects passing the proper planning standard.

Whatever way the High Court decides that the Strand Road / Beach Road scheme should be consulted and approved is how all other schemes thereafter will have to be dealt with.

So from that point of view, if they pass a Part 8 or other process, I'll be the first to say fire ahead.

breezy1985

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'll be watching. I'm always watching......

In fairness, I don't particularly give a stuff about any individual project. What I do care about is all projects passing the proper planning standard.

Whatever way the High Court decides that the Strand Road / Beach Road scheme should be consulted and approved is how all other schemes thereafter will have to be dealt with.

So from that point of view, if they pass a Part 8 or other process, I'll be the first to say fire ahead.

And Im sure this applies to all roads, housing etc. and not just cycle lanes

MojoMaker

isn't this a bit like helmets/hi-viz for cyclists, or tax and insurance for e-scooters? I mean, make it difficult, nay impossible, for the compliance aspect to be met so that really the project/initiative can never actually happen.

Handy way of hiding behind compliance or running to the instruments of the state to impose new levels of compliance when previous levels are achieved. We'd never be that disingenuous though I think/hope. At least the folks I know in Sandymount have been fairly candid when they say "we don't want our area modified".

The US Senate was fond of the regular fillibuster to slow up proceedings and make it impossible to get stuff done, maybe this is our version?

Certainly Mannix, God love him, does seem to enjoy a bit of interference for interference sake, sticking it to "the man" etc :pac:

Thelonious Monk

Some of the proposed routes sound great, Coolock to Clontarf and Finglas to Killester would be of much use to me.
Any update on when the fabled Fairview bike lane will start? I saw business owners and residents moaning about it on Facebook saying it'll destroy business etc.

magicbastarder

collins avenue is a strange road - in some places it's extremely wide, but there are other places (whitehall GAA club) where it's very narrow. will be interesting to see how they engineer that.

Thelonious Monk

I can't see any way of doing Vernon Avenue and Brookwood Avenue, Vernon Ave especially is covered in on street parking, especially around the entrance to St Anne's.
With the climate bill yesterday you'd think these things would be a no brainer, but I just refuse to believe they'll be able to roll these things out properly because of uproar from motorists and their counselors.
Would be great for the schoolkids around there though.

Larbre34

breezy1985 wrote: »

And Im sure this applies to all roads, housing etc. and not just cycle lanes

Thats the point isn't it, it already does apply to those.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I can't see any way of doing Vernon Avenue and Brookwood Avenue, Vernon Ave especially is covered in on street parking, especially around the entrance to St Anne's.
With the climate bill yesterday you'd think these things would be a no brainer, but I just refuse to believe they'll be able to roll these things out properly because of uproar from motorists and their counselors.
Would be great for the schoolkids around there though.

Brookwood Avenue is plenty wide for a segregated cycle lane Monk. And if they used the grassed areas on Vernon Avenue, which are already cycled and parked on on a daily basis, there is more than enough room for a cycle lane here again.

It would get trickier from the junction of Kincora Road as it narrows quite a lot from there to the seafront. Personally I'd make that a 1 way traffic flow, towards the seafront.

I emailed Catherine Stocker asking if there's any more details but she said that map is all they have, and hoping to get further info in Autumn.

Thelonious Monk

downtheroad wrote: »

Brookwood Avenue is plenty wide for a congregated cycle lane Monk. And if they used the grassed areas on Vernon Avenue, which are already cycled and parked on on a daily basis, there is more than enough room for a cycle lane here again.

It would get trickier from the junction of Kincora Road as it narrows quite a lot from there to the seafront. Personally I'd make that a 1 way traffic flow, towards the seafront.

I emailed Catherine Stocker asking if there's any more details but she said that map is all they have, and hoping to get further info in Autumn.

I have a friend who lives in Brookwood Avenue who usually owns about 3 or 4 cars and has them splattered all over the road, he wont be much amused if this goes ahead! With all the trees on that avenue too I'm not sure how they'd do it, but then I'm not a city planner so I hope they get something done.

Yes the bottleneck at Clontarf where the shops are is an absolute disaster as is, should be one way cycle lane or not, and bollards are needed as there are nearly always Range Rovers illegally parked all over the footpaths outside O'Brien's etc.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I have a friend who lives in Brookwood Avenue who usually owns about 3 or 4 cars and has them splattered all over the road, he wont be much amused if this goes ahead! With all the trees on that avenue too I'm not sure how they'd do it, but then I'm not a city planner so I hope they get something done.

Yes the bottleneck at Clontarf where the shops are is an absolute disaster as is, should be one way cycle lane or not, and bollards are needed as there are nearly always Range Rovers illegally parked all over the footpaths outside O'Brien's etc.

He can replace 2 or 3 of those cars with bikes when there's better cycling infrastructure right outside his front door

Thelonious Monk

downtheroad wrote: »

He can replace 2 or 3 of those cars with bikes when there's better cycling infrastructure right outside his front door

I know, I'll be the first to tell him this. He did used to cycle to work actually until he got older and lazier.

breezy1985

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I know, I'll be the first to tell him this. He did used to cycle to work actually until he got older and lazier.

Age is no excuse

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeirdreAPower

Searchers

That’s class!! And those gears......no granny ring there!

Peregrine

Finglas to Killester would be a game changer. It would be interesting to see how they manage Whitehall and Donnycarney.

buffalo

buffalo wrote: »

I'd say Christy Burke or maybe Nial Ring, but it's probably Mannix Flynn.

I was catching up on my DI news, and indeed it's Mannix Flynn. This is in relation to Queen Street and Bridgefoot Street:

Independent Councillor Mannix Flynn said he was concerned that cycle plans were being rolled in in a “salami slice” manner, with “no overall coherence”, and that residents of local areas were being surprised by new infrastructure without warning.

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2021/03/17/council-briefs-on-a-promenade-in-sandymount-and-a-congested-road-in-donnybrook

What struck me is that he's objecting to piecemeal cycle lanes here, but in relation to Strand Road, he objected to the fact that it's part of a network:

Mr Flynn’s submission states “it is our opinion that the proposed development... actually forms part of a wider network

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/order-halting-works-on-sandymount-cycleway-issued-by-high-court-1.4495901

Just in case anybody thought Mannix might not just object to anything cycling-related with a kneejerk reaction based on whatever comes into his head.

Effects

Eamonnator wrote: »

Who's North Dublin's Labre34?. That's what I want to know.

People already complaining on the Clontarf facebook group about Fairview, saying all inbound traffic will have to divert to R803/Fairview Strand, towards Philipsburgh Ave. That there will be no inbound lane towards Amiens Street for two years.
One woman complaining how it's going to affect her husband, who needs to drive all over Dublin for work. Another guy saying it's going to be a nightmare trying to get to the Funeral Home for a funeral.

They are saying everyone needs to get this stopped by emailing their TDs now.

Seth Brundle

I had my sister share that video with me and some friends. Its pure nonsense and it appears to be swallowed hook, line and sinker by the masses. One friend who cycles posted how that it was mad given that there's already a cycle lane in the park.
#facepalm


https://www.facebook.com/groups/146039519351628/permalink/773288003293440/

Effects

That's actually a different video. There seems to be a bunch of them at it.

Peregrine

One of the complaints that Mannix Flynn had was that there was little to no detail in the Queen Street to Bridgefoot Street proposal. The reason the engineers presented it to councillors at this early stage was to avoid being accused of telling them too late.

If you announce it early, it's bad because there are no details in the proposals, this will cause untold stress to locals for a long time, it's unprofessional etc.

If you announce it when you have more details, it's bad because they weren't consulted, there was no warning, fait accompli etc.

Thelonious Monk

Yes resident groups seem to be building up opposition against the Fairview bike lanes. I can't see it happening tbh, it'll be scrapped and they'll need to come up with a new plan, a new lane through the park or something.

Effects

I think I’ll make my own video on why we need a new bike lane through Fairview.
I’ll wait until the weekend when all the motorists have parked up on the footpath and cycle path.

Seth Brundle

Make sure to wear loads of high-viz so that the viewers will be able to see you!

Effects

Effects wrote: »

I think I’ll make my own video on why we need a new bike lane through Fairview.
I’ll wait until the weekend when all the motorists have parked up on the footpath and cycle path.

Outbound through Fairview earlier and the painted cycle lane before Edges Corner had a van parked in it because the other parking spaces were taken. Didn't even have the hazards on

The junction at Malahide Road is an absolute disaster. The BusConnects proposal is to allow cyclists only to cut up through Marino and pop out to the Malahide Road at Griffith Avenue, but at present there is no bollard there to stop vehicles using Haverty Road at Marino post office so plenty of cars use that as a rat run.

Cycling through the park inbound isn't great since they made the path mixed use for bikes, pedestrians and whoever else.

Searchers

I always think that the level of ‘heat’ around cycling tracks in Fairview is very strange.

All of the land the east of Fairview Strand has been reclaimed from the sea. It is a long time since it was a strand. Not only that, it is six lanes of road space for traffic. There is also a major piece of infrastructure to the east of the park - ie the railway line. There is more infrastructure further east on Alfie Byrne Road. And to cap it all, underneath the park is one of Ireland’s largest infrastructures in the Port Tunnel.

And yet, here we are in 2021 arguing and debating endlessly about how to build a safe cycling route through Fairview. With the engineering solutions that have already been brought to bear in this space over centuries, surely it is not beyond creative minds to develop creative solutions.

And one point on the shared cycle track in the park - what is the point when the gates are closed at commuting times and it is unlit at night?

Searchers

Searchers wrote: »

I always think that the level ‘heat’ around cycling tracks in Fairview is very strange.

All of the land the east of Fairview Strand has been reclaimed from the sea. It is a long time since it was a strand. Not only that, it is six lanes of road space for traffic. There is also major piece of infrastructure to the east of the park - ie the railway line. More further east on Alfie Byrne Road. And to cap it all, underneath the park is one of Ireland’s largest infrastructures in the Port Tunnel.

And yet, here we are in 2021 arguing and debating endlessly about how to build a safe cycling route through Fairview. With the engineering solutions that have already been brought to bear in this space over centuries, surely it is not beyond creative minds to develop creative solutions.

And one point on the shared cycle track in the park - what is the point when the gates are closed at commuting time and it is unlit at night?

And those gates are often still closed during commute times the following morning.

Thelonious Monk

They'll just light up that stretch and leave the park open maybe? I went to school in Fairview and have cycled through it for decades and it's an absolute nightmare. I just wont let myself believe that they'll build a cycle lane that might inconvenience motorists or residents for a while, I can't see it happening.

Seth Brundle

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I went to school in Fairview

Joeys? Me too!

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

it's an absolute nightmare. I just wont let myself believe that they'll build a cycle lane that might inconvenience motorists or residents for a while, I can't see it happening.

The gas thing is that traffic is forced to narrow into single file closer to town e.g. North Strand. Its a pointless fight those opposed to it are fighting

Thelonious Monk

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Joeys? Me too!

Good man! Class of '98 here.

Seth Brundle

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Good man! Class of '98 here.

I'm from the class of Italia 90

What is the situation with grass verges between roads and footpaths, are they council owned? The council seem to be responsible for cutting the grass but I'm sure residents think they own the patch outside their house.

Here's an example from Brookwood Avenue where a segregated cycle lane could be installed in place of the grass with some imagination and engineering. Ample room. Save the council a job in having to cut the grass too.

It would be a better option than using it as a parking space for the white car in the map.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/LnUfPsFMzHFJPB647

magicbastarder

the verge is public land.

Duckjob

downtheroad wrote: »

What is the situation with grass verges between roads and footpaths, are they council owned? The council seem to be responsible for cutting the grass but I'm sure residents think they own the patch outside their house.

Here's an example from Brookwood Avenue where a segregated cycle lane could be installed in place of the grass with some imagination and engineering. Ample room. Save the council a job in having to cut the grass too.

It would be a better option than using it as a parking space for the white car in the map.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/LnUfPsFMzHFJPB647

What about the trees ? It wouldn't be much of a cycle path if you're trying to squeeze it around them. Very narrow + lumpy & bumpy.

In that situation I would narrow down the road so that there's just one car width each way for cars instead of nearly 2 widths, or else just make it one way for cars and take one side completely for a bike path.

Bicycledutch mentioned in his youtube video when he came to Dublin for Velocity that him and other delegates were surprised to find that good bike infrastructure was found mostly in places where it didn't interfere with motor traffic.

The reality is that in order to really tackle congestion and make progress towards meeting carbon emissions targets etc, we don't just have to make it easier and more attractive for people to bike, but we also HAVE to make it harder and less attractive for people to drive. Planners and councillors are still dancing around this, but they're going to have to grasp that particular nettle sooner or later.

MojoMaker

That's what we're trying to do in Sandymount, as you say, it's inevitable.

Thelonious Monk

https://twitter.com/dublintwowheels/status/1375808277850812419

this looks nice, small steps and all

breezy1985

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dublintwowheels/status/1375808277850812419

this looks nice, small steps and all

The bollards do look ugly and that is used by anti cycle people quite often so these are win win

Protective bollards for Vernon Avenue next week

External Association

magicbastarder wrote: »

who's north dublin's mannix flynn?

Great news, about time.

magicbastarder

got this email from dublin cycling campaign, may be of interest/actionable for anyone who lives in the area:

Opposition to safe segregated cycling routes on Griffith Avenue

You might be aware that the City Council has been consulting and planning a safe segregated cycle route along the wide expanse of Griffith Avenue. This cycle route is essentially to facilitate safe access and travel by schoolchildren and cyclists in general along this avenue. There are a large number of schools along or close to this route - check out this link map for information. The background and history of the scheme is on this link on the City Council website. You yourself can make a submission in support of this scheme at any time up to 30th June next.

Unfortunately a number of City Councillors in the general area of the scheme, have been contacted by individuals who have complained about the scheme, and are seeking to have it halted or amended significantly. This is yet another kickback attempt against a progressive scheme. We are asking you, if at all possible, to contact the Dublin city councillors on this list from the areas of Ballymun-Finglas, Cabra-Glasnevin, and Clontarf to urge them to get fully behind this scheme. It is at a critical stage, and really needs people to step up and show support to help it get over the line. To do this we have a suggested draft email below for you to send, but of course also feel free to amend it and/or individually contact any councillors you may personally know, to garner support.

Dear Councillor
I am writing to you seeking your support for the vital work that Dublin City Council are advancing, in the construction of a protected cycle route along both sides of Griffith Avenue. As you will note from this Link Map, this area contains more than a dozen schools in its vicinity, and there are multiple reasons to support the construction of this protected cycle route:
1 Our children, the next generation need safe routes to school and to be encouraged to travel actively by walking and cycling.
2 The Griffith Avenue cycle route needs your support to ensure that safe segregated routes are provided for all road users.
3 Slower speeds and segregated cycle routes will save lives and encourage more people to be active.
4 This proposed route serves a large number of local schools and needs to be encouraged.
5 Dublin City Council has consulted widely on these plans, and the final plans are as a result of this widespread consultation, and the plans need to be supported.
6 Greater levels of active travel means a greater improvement in the general health of the population.
7 Greater levels of active travel means reduced numbers of motor vehicles, leading to less air pollution, noise, and congestion, all of which provides a cleaner and safer environment

I hope you will support this request for support, and I look forward to your response

You might let us know if you get any responses from the councillors, and we hope to regularly update our Campaign website with progress on the project.

Thelonious Monk

Wtf is the opposition? Jesus Christ I'm really losing faith in humanity with this stuff.

Duckjob

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Wtf is the opposition? Jesus Christ I'm really losing faith in humanity with this stuff.

The aggressive neanderthal pushback against making our spaces more people friendly is really an embarassment to Ireland at this stage.

Especially when you frame it within the context of climate change and what needs to happen urgently. You can see other European countries are "getting it", but yet we're not. Having to listen to the same old angry sh*te being trotted out about road tax, loony greens etc, is particularly embarrassing.

magicbastarder

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Wtf is the opposition?

'where will i park my car?'
'griffith avenue was so much nicer without the wands'.
'people are still cycling on the footpaths'

that pretty much sums it up.

buffalo

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/fingal-coastal-way-non-statutory-public-consultation

Fingal County Council is in the process of developing plans for the Fingal Coastal Way, a high quality, safe, attractive and environmentally sympathetic coastal walking and cycling route linking Donabate, Rush, Loughshinny, Skerries and Balbriggan and the wider North Fingal area.

This will be gorgeous.

Duckjob

buffalo wrote: »

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/fingal-coastal-way-non-statutory-public-consultation



This will be gorgeous.

It sure will. I'm looking forward to cruising it in my mobility scooter :pac:

Edit: That sounded a bit negative.

It will be amazing when it's done. I just wish Fingal could step on the accelerator a bit with these developments as I find current pace such as with the Broadmeadow Way a bit painful.

Thelonious Monk

It does look good, I just don't get too excited about these greenway projects as these are the sort of cycling projects politicians can say they support as they don't inflict on traffic or parking.

Seth Brundle

https://twitter.com/Dub324/status/1384519333766967296?s=19

MojoMaker

All Paul McAuliffe is doing there is repurposing the fear mongering, and casting himself as the white knight.

Not helpful.