are auction contracts categorically infallible

Mad_maxx

my sister who lives in dublin and works in the law but not in conveyancy was telling me over the weekend about a situation quite recently where a couple bought a house at an online auction , they appeared to get a discount , the title was pretty ok and they know the estate and area well , they have friends living nearby

the problem was that the house was advertised as a four bed house but one of the bedrooms was a converted attic . while in practice this extra bedroom might well have real value , not only can you not list the house as any bigger than a three bed should you decided to sell in years to come , estate agents themselves are not permitted to advertise three beds with converted attics as four beds

the question is whether the power of the auction contract allows such a detail to be omitted ? , thus inflating the status of the house

according to my sister , the sale has not closed yet and has dragged on since before christmas , the winning bidder demanding a refund

what i took from this was that during covid lockdown , the onus should be higher on auction houses to provide absolutely accurate details as viewings are not permitted

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

my sister who lives in dublin and works in the law but not in conveyancy was telling me over the weekend about a situation quite recently where a couple bought a house at an online auction , they appeared to get a discount , the title was pretty ok and they know the estate and area well , they have friends living nearby

the problem was that the house was advertised as a four bed house but one of the bedrooms was a converted attic . while in practice this extra bedroom might well have real value , not only can you not list the house as any bigger than a three bed should you decided to sell in years to come , estate agents themselves are not permitted to advertise three beds with converted attics as four beds

the question is whether the power of the auction contract allows such a detail to be omitted ? , thus inflating the status of the house

according to my sister , the sale has not closed yet and has dragged on since before christmas , the winning bidder demanding a refund

what i took from this was that during covid lockdown , the onus should be higher on auction houses to provide absolutely accurate details as viewings are not permitted

The auction houses always contract out of representations as to measurement etc. It is up to people to make sure they know what they are buying. It is not like buying goods from a shop where there is consumer protection and often a full refund no quibble policy.
There is no consumer protection when buying a second hand house. It is up to the intending buyer to inspect and make sure they know what they are buying.
A google search would most likely reveal that other houses on the same road are 3 bed and the one your sister spoke of must have been constructed as a 3 bed.
Auctions are not for newbies looking for a bargain.

Marcusm

The question, I think, is whether it amounts to fraudulent misrepresentation including whether all the relevant factors are present. In many online property auctions there is a statement that the property has not been inspected to verify if the details are correct and encouraging the prospective buyers to inspect the property or have it inspected. This may vitiate any assertion of fraudulent misrepresentation but IANAL and the one who is being used for the purchase should be consulted.

Mad_maxx

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The auction houses always contract out of representations as to measurement etc. It is up to people to make sure they know what they are buying. It is not like buying goods from a shop where there is consumer protection and often a full refund no quibble policy.
There is no consumer protection when buying a second hand house. It is up to the intending buyer to inspect and make sure they know what they are buying.
A google search would most likely reveal that other houses on the same road are 3 bed and the one your sister spoke of must have been constructed as a 3 bed.
Auctions are not for newbies looking for a bargain.

how may i ask do you inspect a property in the current climate ?

you are aware that auctions are still going ahead despite no viewings ?

the point of my OP was whether the power of the auction contract trumps all this new reality ?


https://www.auctioneera.ie/selling-house-with-converted-attic#:~:text=Many%20people%20have%20converted%20their,structural%20changes%20were%20being%20made.&text=The%20reason%20for%20this%20is,as%20a%204%20bedroom%20property.

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

how may i ask do you inspect a property in the current climate ?

you are aware that auctions are still going ahead despite no viewings ?

the point of my OP was whether the power of the auction contract trumps all this new reality ?


https://www.auctioneera.ie/selling-house-with-converted-attic#:~:text=Many%20people%20have%20converted%20their,structural%20changes%20were%20being%20made.&text=The%20reason%20for%20this%20is,as%20a%204%20bedroom%20property.

The contract is everything. All of the advertising is puff. Buyer beware. If you can't investigate, don't bid!
I don't see the relevance of your link.

Mad_maxx

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The contract is everything. All of the advertising is puff. Buyer beware. If you can't investigate, don't bid!
I don't see the relevance of your link.

" advertising is puff"

so if a seven bed mansion on three acres turns out to be a modest four bed on half an acre

" the contract is everything "

?

Caranica

A converted attic can be designated a bedroom if certain standards are met, ceiling height, fire door, permanent stairs etc. It's unclear if this is the case here or not

Mad_maxx

Caranica wrote: »

A converted attic can be designated a bedroom if certain standards are met, ceiling height, fire door, permanent stairs etc. It's unclear if this is the case here or not

im aware of that but most conversions would not meet the correct regs and therefore it would be incorrect to classify converted attic as an official bedroom

the crux of my OP was whether the power of the auction contract over rides everything including incorrect advertising , Claw Hammer believes it does and thats fair enough , he might be 100% correct

in the current climate with no viewings , i think this issue demands much greater focus

a house might tick every other box but if you buy a three bed , thinking you bought a four , its a nasty sting

In the scenario you describe, a four bedroom is being auctioned, it is up to your surveyor/solicitor to check if it complies with regulations. If the pack states it does have a certificate of compliance and then you find in fact it doesn’t, your solicitor can take that up with the auction house.

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

In the scenario you describe, a four bedroom is being auctioned, it is up to your surveyor/solicitor to check if it complies with regulations. If the pack states it does have a certificate of compliance and then you find in fact it doesn’t, your solicitor can take that up with the auction house.

cert of compliance to what extent ?

supporting an attic conversion with proper planning sought , thus rendering the property a legitimate four bed as advertised ?

Lenar3556

Dav010 wrote: »

In the scenario you describe, a four bedroom is being auctioned, it is up to your surveyor/solicitor to check if it complies with regulations. If the pack states it does have a certificate of compliance and then you find in fact it doesn’t, your solicitor can take that up with the auction house.

The nature of any of these auction / receivership sales is that they are sold very much “as is” by parties who are often a mortgagee in possession and have little or no knowledge of the particulars of the property.

Any available title/planning documents/certificates are made available in advance. Any certificate of compliance likely relates to the original construction. The attic conversion was probably done afterwards. But again these are matters entirely for the purchaser.

Some property at auction would have no such certificates, may not have correct planning, could have a sitting tenant on terms unknown. Could be falling down quite frankly. All warranties are excluded in the special conditions of sale and it’s up to any buyer to establish all relevant facts.

The only impact I would see with restrictions as to viewings is that the sale price to be achieved should be lower commensurate with the great risk of unknowns. Any sales agent / marketing fluff is specifically excluded in the contract of sale which is available for all to see in advance of the auction.

Mad_maxx

Lenar3556 wrote: »

The nature of any of these auction / receivership sales is that they are sold very much “as is” by parties who are often a mortgagee in possession and have little or no knowledge of the particulars of the property.

Any available title/planning documents/certificates are made available in advance. Any certificate of compliance likely relates to the original construction. The attic conversion was probably done afterwards. But again these are matters entirely for the purchaser.

Some property at auction would have no such certificates, may not have correct planning, could have a sitting tenant on terms unknown. Could be falling down quite frankly. All warranties are excluded in the special conditions of sale and it’s up to any buyer to establish all relevant facts.

The only impact I would see with restrictions as to viewings is that the sale price to be achieved should be lower commensurate with the great risk of unknowns. Any sales agent / marketing fluff is specifically excluded in the contract of sale which is available for all to see in advance of the auction.

the " little or no knowledge " line might be credible if they listed the property with a less flattering detail

funny and perhaps convenient how they listed as a four bed by mistake instead of say a two bed , if they know so little about what they are selling , how come they always seek to maximise its sale points ?

this is outright cowboy behaviour and something should be done about it , more warranties see available at the ballinasloe annual horse fair

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the " little or no knowledge " line might be credible if they listed the property with a less flattering detail

funny and perhaps convenient how they listed as a four bed by mistake instead of say a two bed , if they know so little about what they are selling , how come they always seek to maximise its sale points ?

this is outright cowboy behaviour and something should be done about it , more warranties see available at the ballinasloe annual horse fair

That is why you are strongly advised to retain a solicitor to provide a SPAR and a surveyor to check the property before you bid.

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

" advertising is puff"

so if a seven bed mansion on three acres turns out to be a modest four bed on half an acre

" the contract is everything "

?

You would want to be a right eejit buying a four bed on half an acre thinking it is a 7 bed mansion on three acres.

Mad_maxx

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You would want to be a right eejit buying a four bed on half an acre thinking it is a 7 bed mansion on three acres.

you have all the answers , dont you ?

not everyone believes sharp practice should be merely excused behind the power of the auction contract.

fair enough if the property is not compliant in some technical way , original owner is a belligerent individual , cash buyers only etc , basic details like number of bedrooms however needs to be accurate from an advertisement POV in my opinion , especially during lockdown you believe its ok , fine

ohnonotgmail

Mad_maxx wrote: »

you have all the answers , dont you ?

not everyone believes sharp practice should be merely excused behind the power of the auction contract.

fair enough if the property is not compliant in some technical way , original owner is a belligerent individual , cash buyers only etc , basic details like number of bedrooms however needs to be accurate from an advertisement POV in my opinion , especially during lockdown you believe its ok , fine

If they walk around the house and see four bedrooms they are going to put it down as four bedrooms. You should really have a solicitor go through the legal pack before bidding.

Mad_maxx

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If they walk around the house and see four bedrooms they are going to put it down as four bedrooms. You should really have a solicitor go through the legal pack before bidding.

i didnt buy the house , my sister who is a solicitor told me about it , but i have dealt with the auction house in question several years ago so im familiar with them and the story interests me

estate agents are not supposed to include a converted attic bedroom in the description of the house , most dont do it

ohnonotgmail

Mad_maxx wrote: »

i didnt buy the house , my sister who is a solicitor told me about it , but i have dealt with the auction house in question several years ago so im familiar with them and the story interests me

estate agents are not supposed to include a converted attic bedroom in the description of the house , most dont do it

Its an auction not sale by private treaty.

Mad_maxx

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Its an auction not sale by private treaty.

so ?

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

so ?

A lot of properties sold at auction are being sold by Receivers who are not bound by the same legal requirements that vendors are in Private Treaty sales in relation to planning permission and building regulations.

That is why the onus is on the buyer at auction to do all the necessary checks before bidding.

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

A lot of properties sold at auction are being sold by Receivers who are not bound by the same legal requirements that vendors are in Private Treaty sales in relation to planning permission and building regulations.

That is why the onus is on the buyer at auction to do all the necessary checks before bidding.

i understand and realise that receivers often use auctions to offload properties with various irregularities and compliance issues but does that extend to incorrectly identifying the number of bedrooms in a house ?

Darc19

What also has to be considered is when the conversion took place and did it meet the parameters of a bedroom back then.

Regulations have changed over the years and there are now strick rules on safety aspects.

I sold a property in 2017 that had an upstairs room where the velux window was about 5cm too high from the floor.

The solution was to put a 5cm wood block beneath it and it conformed.

Here are two examples. Both built identically, but one is 4 bed including attic and one is a 3 bed + attic.

Same agent in both cases.


https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/82-sunnyhill-castlemartin-lodge-kilcullen-kildare/4485330

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/74-sunnyhill-castlemartin-kilcullen-kildare/4341536

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

i understand and realise that receivers often use auctions to offload properties with various irregularities but does that extend to incorrectly identifying the number of bedrooms in a house ?

In the scenario you described in your op, there is no such discrepancy, the house has four bedrooms. Whether that complies with planning/building regs is up to your solicitor/surveyor to advise. If the house is being sold by a Receiver, they don’t have to warranty the compliance.

Mad_maxx

Darc19 wrote: »

What also has to be considered is when the conversion took place and did it meet the parameters of a bedroom back then.

Regulations have changed over the years and there are now strick rules on safety aspects.

I sold a property in 2017 that had an upstairs room where the velux window was about 5cm too high from the floor.

The solution was to put a 5cm wood block beneath it and it conformed.

for marketing purposes , the attic conversion to bedroom must have been preceded by a planning application , you can covert an attic without planning but you cant then market it as an extra bedroom

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

In the scenario you described in your op, there is no such discrepancy, the house has four bedrooms. Whether that complies with planning/building regs is up to your solicitor/surveyor to advise. If the house is being sold by a Receiver, they don’t have to warranty the compliance.

i spoke to an EA today ( who sold my mothers house six months ago and happened to call me about a related matter ) , we got talking about this and that and i asked him about this issue

he was adamant that unless planning was sought to convert an attic to a bedroom , an attic bedroom cannot be listed as such for the purpose of marketing

hence a three bed house can be listed as a three bed with attic conversion but not as a straight four bedroom as is what happened with this sale ?

Darc19

Mad_maxx wrote: »

for marketing purposes , the attic conversion to bedroom must have been preceded by a planning application , you can covert an attic without planning but you cant then market it as an extra bedroom

I don't think that is correct. It is if you make a change to the shape/style of the roof, planning is required.

You can add a rear velux window once it uses the slope of the roof. You can add an ensuite too. And once it meets the height, ventilation and safety requirements, it can be used as a bedroom.

However many houses won't have the height in the attic and they are then described as attic rooms.

This was in Irish times
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/do-i-need-planning-permission-to-convert-our-attic-1.3660304

Mad_maxx

Darc19 wrote: »

I don't think that is correct. It is if you make a change to the shape/style of the roof, planning is required.

You can add a rear velux window once it uses the slope of the roof. You can add an ensuite too. And once it meets the height, ventilation and safety requirements, it can be used as a bedroom.

However many houses won't have the height in the attic and they are then described as attic rooms.

This was in Irish times
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/do-i-need-planning-permission-to-convert-our-attic-1.3660304

I didn't say it can't be used as a bedroom, I'm saying it can't be listed as a bedroom for marketing purposes if planning for said conversion did not take place

If the above takes place without planning, you market as three bed house ( plus converted attic bedroom)

If planning did preceed attic conversion, you list as four bedroom house for sale ,important distinction

My EA contact said the same to me today

20/20

Mad_maxx wrote: »

i spoke to an EA today and i asked him about this issue
he was adamant that unless planning was sought to convert an attic to a bedroom , an attic bedroom cannot be listed as such for the purpose of marketing

Did you bid on this house ?
Do you know or have you ever even meet the successful bidders ?
Why do you care what somebody else bought maybe they will use the attic for a working from home office.
The only person who can explain things to you is the EA . You had dealings with that EA before, so call them and ask about the situation with attic or four bedrooms.

Mad_maxx

20/20 wrote: »

Did you bid on this house ?
Do you know or have you ever even meet the successful bidders ?
Why do you care what somebody else bought maybe they will use the attic for a working from home office.
The only person who can explain things to you is the EA . You had dealings with that EA before, so call them and ask about the situation with attic or four bedrooms.

The situation could apply to many properties for sale so could be repeated, I have no specific interest in any one house

Sharp practice interests me

Ubbquittious

They'll be talking about this in years to come


"Dya remember that covid virus?"

"I do indeed Paddy. Property prices were mad then. People dieing by the hundreds, everything in lockdown, and still they were going through the roof"

"Jaysus ya know what I heard of happening those times, fellas were buying houses they'd only seen on the screen of a computing machine"

"And some were only a few miles up the road"

"But they werent allowed to go and look at them"

"And the bloody eejits still bought them"

"Shur they were desperate to move out from mammy and daddy so they could finally have a proper shag with only the neighbours listening"

"They're paying the price for it now though"


"Just as well or we'd have to bail out the banks again"

Lenar3556

Mad_maxx wrote: »

i spoke to an EA today ( who sold my mothers house six months ago and happened to call me about a related matter ) , we got talking about this and that and i asked him about this issue

he was adamant that unless planning was sought to convert an attic to a bedroom , an attic bedroom cannot be listed as such for the purpose of marketing

hence a three bed house can be listed as a three bed with attic conversion but not as a straight four bedroom as is what happened with this sale ?

I would be surprised if an estate agent could be expected to establish valid planning permission for elements of a house before advertising it.

joeguevara

In all/vast majority of house sales a booking deposit is paid to stop further viewings etc. A survey is the norm and it has the potential of bringing to light structural issues, boundary issues etc. Once signed off a full non refundable deposit is paid and subsequent remainder of sale price.

In the situation outlined, the survey would have shown up any unlawful living spaces. people don't usually handover hundreds of k without due diligence.

Victor

joeguevara wrote: »

In all/vast majority of house sales a booking deposit is paid to stop further viewings etc. A survey is the norm and it has the potential of bringing to light structural issues, boundary issues etc. Once signed off a full non refundable deposit is paid and subsequent remainder of sale price.

In the situation outlined, the survey would have shown up any unlawful living spaces. people don't usually handover hundreds of k without due diligence.

At auction, things are materially different. Everyone is expected to do their due diligence before bidding. The winning bidder is expected to pay the contract deposit on the day.

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

how may i ask do you inspect a property in the current climate ?

you are aware that auctions are still going ahead despite no viewings ?

You arrange a surveyor to visit the property on your behalf.


You engage a solicitor to have a look at all the relevant documents to find any discrepancies, issues or missing bedrooms.




If people aren't willing to do even the most basic of research, or engage the relevant professionals, then they don't belong at an auction.

Mad_maxx

Due diligence on the part of buyers is a must but it's regrettable that an auction house can engage in the kind of marketing Sharp practice that would shame a back street used car salesman.

Darc19

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I didn't say it can't be used as a bedroom, I'm saying it can't be listed as a bedroom for marketing purposes if planning for said conversion did not take place

If the above takes place without planning, you market as three bed house ( plus converted attic bedroom)

If planning did preceed attic conversion, you list as four bedroom house for sale ,important distinction

My EA contact said the same to me today

That's not what I understand it to be.

If if follows all regulations for habitable space and has the necessary sign offs, then it can be described as a bedroom.

I'd be very wary of what any estate agent says on either side of an argument.

There's one site auctioneera that says planning is required and then links to an article where a SF councillor converted an attic - but it was not his property and he had made changes to the roof. And it took an inspector two minutes to say it did not comply because it was so poorly done.

It possibly is a very strict interpretation of some planning code, but even architects say that planning is not necessary if all the building regs are met and no change to the roof.

Once it's clear that the room is on the 3rd floor, and relevant certs are in place, I can't see any issues.

Maxx, I think there are two aspects to your query, the description and the legality of what is described,

A house may have 10 rooms in total, including kitchen, living room, games room etc. My own house has an office, it’s obvious it’s and office because there is a big desk and book shelves, but there would be nothing to stop me designating that as a bedroom if I was selling and took all the furniture with me.

The next issue is compliance with planning permission and building regulations. At auction, a lot of sales are properties sold by receivers, unlike a PT sale, Recievers do not have to ensure the property meets the regs or has planning.

So in your case, the seller could describe that room in the attic as a bedroom, an office, a gamesroom etc and the Reciever does not have to warranty that it meets the legal standards. This is a huge difference between PT and auction sales, and it is why buying at auction is not for the uninitiated or uninformed. You, the buyer have to check everything.

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

you have all the answers , dont you ?

not everyone believes sharp practice should be merely excused behind the power of the auction contract.

fair enough if the property is not compliant in some technical way , original owner is a belligerent individual , cash buyers only etc , basic details like number of bedrooms however needs to be accurate from an advertisement POV in my opinion , especially during lockdown you believe its ok , fine

What people believe has nothing to do with it. Buddhist, christian, atheist, the same law applies.
You get a contract, you get requisitions on title, you make your enquiries and you either buy what is offered or don't buy.

Mad_maxx

Darc19 wrote: »

That's not what I understand it to be.

If if follows all regulations for habitable space and has the necessary sign offs, then it can be described as a bedroom.

I'd be very wary of what any estate agent says on either side of an argument.

There's one site auctioneera that says planning is required and then links to an article where a SF councillor converted an attic - but it was not his property and he had made changes to the roof. And it took an inspector two minutes to say it did not comply because it was so poorly done.

It possibly is a very strict interpretation of some planning code, but even architects say that planning is not necessary if all the building regs are met and no change to the roof.

Once it's clear that the room is on the 3rd floor, and relevant certs are in place, I can't see any issues.

well perhaps but this EA who rang me yesterday ( about an unrelated matter ) has no dog in this fight , he sold my mothers house last september and is not local to the property im referring to

where planning protects someone with a converted attic is they are not exposed to the very onerously strict current fire regs , while its not illegal to convert an attic without planning , you can then find yourself at the mercy of said fire regs

a case of seeking planning to convert attic being a sort of insurance , never mind a licence to include in the bedroom counting process of marketing

Mad_maxx

Claw Hammer wrote: »

What people believe has nothing to do with it. Buddhist, christian, atheist, the same law applies.
You get a contract, you get requisitions on title, you make your enquiries and you either buy what is offered or don't buy.

youre username is apt , your about as nuanced as a claw hammer

for the sake of a technical discussion , you could at least be open to the possibility that circumstances like the current covid lockdown situation might demand more scrutiny in the area of advertising , you seem happy to heap all onus on buyers ?

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

Maxx, I think there are two aspects to your query, the description and the legality of what is described,

A house may have 10 rooms in total, including kitchen, living room, games room etc. My own house has an office, it’s obvious it’s and office because there is a big desk and book shelves, but there would be nothing to stop me designating that as a bedroom if I was selling and took all the furniture with me.

The next issue is compliance with planning permission and building regulations. At auction, a lot of sales are properties sold by receivers, unlike a PT sale, Recievers do not have to ensure the property meets the regs or has planning.

So in your case, the seller could describe that room in the attic as a bedroom, an office, a gamesroom etc and the Reciever does not have to warranty that it meets the legal standards. This is a huge difference between PT and auction sales, and it is why buying at auction is not for the uninitiated or uninformed. You, the buyer have to check everything.

thanks Dav , I get it that the receiver informs any potential buyer of there being no comeback etc , im more referring to the auction house as the physical advertising is on their platform.

are you saying the auction house can showcase anything and if details are found to be incorrect , they too are not under any obligation due to the power of the auction contract ?

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

thanks Dav , I get it that the receiver informs any potential buyer of there being no comeback etc , im more referring to the auction house as the physical advertising is on their platform.

are you saying the auction house can showcase anything and if details are found to be incorrect , they too are not under any obligation due to the power of the auction contract ?

But when buying at auction, the onus is on you to check the details. If for instance in the example you gave that the Reciever /auction house claimed it was a two story house instead of a bungalow with an attic conversion, or that the house had planning when it didn’t, then your solicitor would take that up with the auction house as this clearly is a misrepresentation of the property.

Del2005

Mad_maxx wrote: »

my sister who lives in dublin and works in the law but not in conveyancy was telling me over the weekend about a situation quite recently where a couple bought a house at an online auction , they appeared to get a discount , the title was pretty ok and they know the estate and area well , they have friends living nearby

the problem was that the house was advertised as a four bed house but one of the bedrooms was a converted attic . while in practice this extra bedroom might well have real value , not only can you not list the house as any bigger than a three bed should you decided to sell in years to come , estate agents themselves are not permitted to advertise three beds with converted attics as four beds

the question is whether the power of the auction contract allows such a detail to be omitted ? , thus inflating the status of the house

according to my sister , the sale has not closed yet and has dragged on since before christmas , the winning bidder demanding a refund

what i took from this was that during covid lockdown , the onus should be higher on auction houses to provide absolutely accurate details as viewings are not permitted

Did the people not look at any pictures or plans for the property before they bid? Because if they saw the bedroom in the attic, it's hard to hide a converted attic, then they knew what they were bidding on. If they didn't look at any plans or pictures why did they bid? Sounds like buyers remorse and looking for an excuse to get out.

20/20

Mad_maxx wrote: »

im more referring to the auction house as the physical advertising is on their platform.

Can you post a pic or maybe the link so we could see what this attic looks like.

Mad_maxx

Del2005 wrote: »

Did the people not look at any pictures or plans for the property before they bid? Because if they saw the bedroom in the attic, it's hard to hide a converted attic, then they knew what they were bidding on. If they didn't look at any plans or pictures why did they bid? Sounds like buyers remorse and looking for an excuse to get out.

According to what my sister told me, they want a price renegotiation

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

youre username is apt , your about as nuanced as a claw hammer

for the sake of a technical discussion , you could at least be open to the possibility that circumstances like the current covid lockdown situation might demand more scrutiny in the area of advertising , you seem happy to heap all onus on buyers ?

All the onus is on buyers. That is the whole point of it. Lockdown or not its buyer beware. There are laws against misleading advertising already in existence. Perhaps you are unawawre of that?

Mad_maxx

Claw Hammer wrote: »

All the onus is on buyers. That is the whole point of it. Lockdown or not its buyer beware. There are laws against misleading advertising already in existence. Perhaps you are unawawre of that?

You don't seem to think such advertising laws hold any sway, auction contract shields from any breach of said laws

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You don't seem to think such advertising laws hold any sway, auction contract shields from any breach of said laws

The contract is with the vendor of the property. If there is a breach complaint can be made but it is still up to the buyer to satisfyt themselves as to what they are buying. If a kitchen was extended without planning or exemption from planning is the Auctioneer supposed to ignore the prescence of a kitchen in their description?

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You don't seem to think such advertising laws hold any sway, auction contract shields from any breach of said laws

It is important to understand the difference between consumer law and rights, and property sales, more specifically auctions. The people in your sisters story can try to renegotiate, but it may depend on whether they surveyed the property and did their due diligence like they were supposed to, if they did and still bought at auction, then they did so with their eyes open, if they didn’t survey/get legal advice before bidding, then they bid blindly.

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

It is important to understand the difference between consumer law and rights, and property sales, more specifically auctions. The people in your sisters story can try to renegotiate, but it may depend on whether they surveyed the property and did their due diligence like they were supposed to, if they did and still bought at auction, then they did so with their eyes open, if they didn’t survey/get legal advice before bidding, then they bid blindly.

one imagines its extremely unlikely the couple will be able to renegotiate but i still think the issue is worth reviewing in the current circumstances where physical inspection is so difficult

that the property was listed as a four bed instead of a three , suggests strongly that there was an attempt to inflate the stature of the house ?

Claw Hammer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

one imagines its extremely unlikely the couple will be able to renegotiate but i still think the issue is worth reviewing in the current circumstances where physical inspection is so difficult

that the property was listed as a four bed instead of a three , suggests strongly that there was an attempt to inflate the stature of the house ?

Below are standard conditions in an online sale. Any eejit who signs this and then thinks they can go back and renegotiate a lower price is deluded. They would be lucky not to be charged interest on a delayed closing.

6. The Purchaser is deemed to have purchased the property with full knowledge of the actual state and condition of same and to take the property as it stands and is deemed to have inspected the property and to be familiar with its boundaries, fences and walls and shall not require any declaration of identity or explanation as to boundaries, fences and walls and no requisition or objection shall be made or entertained in respect of same.

11. The Purchaser agrees and accepts that no information, statement, description, quantity or measurement contained in any advertisements or given orally or contained in any brochure, catalogue, letter, report, docket or hand out issued by or on behalf of the Vendor in respect of the Subject Property (whether or not in the course of any representation or negotiations leading to the Sale) shall constitute a representation inducing the Purchaser to enter into the Sale or a condition or warranty forming part of this Contract. Any information, statement, description, quantity or measurements so given or contained in any such advertisement, brochure, catalogue, letter, report or hand out issued by or on behalf of the Vendor or any agent on its behalf are for illustration purposes only and are not to be taken as matters of fact and that any mistake, omission, inaccuracy or misdescription given orally or in the form of any advertisement, brochure, catalogue, letter, report or hand out issued by or on behalf of the Vendor or any of its agents (whether or not in the course of any representatiochure, catalogue, letter, report, docket or hand out issued by or on behalfof the Vendor or any of its agents (whether or not in the course of any representation or negotiations leading to the Sale) shall not give rise to any right of action, claim, entitlement or compensation against or from the Vendor or any of its agents under this agreement or otherwise or any right of residue of termination. The within Contract comprises the entire of the Contract between the Vendor and the Purchaser and supersedes any other alleged contract between the parties in relation to the Subject Property. For the avoidance of doubt, the parties hereby acknowledge that any previous agreement which may have been entered into by the Vendor, Receivers and Purchaser relating to the Subject Property is hereby rescinded. Any statement, representation or warranty made by the Vendor, agent or employees during the course of negotiations leading to the Sale which are not herein contained and set forth are hereby treated as having been withdrawn and will have no force or effect at law whatsoever. General Condition 29 shall be read subject to this condition.