Another mass shooting in the USA - 10 killed

Tell me how

notobtuse wrote: »

I think if you look further it will show you that the vast majority of these shootings in Chicago are fueled by illegal guns. So all the gun-control laws will not stop criminals from getting their hands on illegal weapons. Crazy to think criminals don't abide by the law, eh? But hey, why worry about the facts when you can take selective data to try and push an agenda.

What do you think guns bought in Tennessee and handed to people in Chicago are if not illegal guns?

And still no answer as to what you would do to try to curb gun violence in the US.

Who has the agenda again?

Tell me how

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm a gun enthusiast and I'm not calling for uninhibited access to guns. I've said numerous times that everyone shouldn't have a gun. You are smearing all gun owners by saying gun enthusiasts think that more uninhibited access to guns is the answer. Most of us don't think that way.

Here's a question for you. How do you stop the guns getting into the hands of criminals without punishing law abiding citizens who want to own guns?

No, I am not. You have agreed with proposals I have made about implementing greater gun control.

To answer your question. My proposal is that every gun bought/sold must have a name assigned to it of someone who is legally entitled to own a gun and that if a gun is found to have been involved in a crime the last legally entitled holder of it be asked to explain how it moved from their ownership to the hands of a criminal. If they hadn't it secured and it was stolen, then that is there fault that this gun entered the black market in this way. If they sold it to a fake dealer or whatever, they are either responsible, or that dealer must now answer the questions.

If it is so difficult already to buy a gun, where are all the criminals getting theirs? Are they all coming in from abroad? Or where is the weak link in the existing process which means that America is suffering in this way.

Because one thing is irrefutable, something needs to be done.

notobtuse

Tell me how wrote: »

What do you think guns bought in Tennessee and handed to people in Chicago are if not illegal guns?

And still no answer as to what you would do to try to curb gun violence in the US.

Who has the agenda again?

You didn't ask me about what I would do to try and curb gun violence in the US? But it you want to know... Stop letting out people out of jail in record speeds of criminals who commit gun crimes. Background checks on all new gun purchases and transfers that don't involve immediate family members.

BattleCorp

Tell me how wrote: »

No, I am not. You have agreed with proposals I have made about implementing greater gun control.

I still agree with your proposals but saying that gun owners are calling for uninhibited access to guns isn't correct. Most of us want some sort of sensible gun control. Yes, many of us differ over what that entails but I'm fine with your proposals below.

To answer your question. My proposal is that every gun bought/sold must have a name assigned to it of someone who is legally entitled to own a gun and that if a gun is found to have been involved in a crime the last legally entitled holder of it be asked to explain how it moved from their ownership to the hands of a criminal. If they hadn't it secured and it was stolen, then that is there fault that this gun entered the black market in this way. If they sold it to a fake dealer or whatever, they are either responsible, or that dealer must now answer the questions.

Tell me how

President Biden came out with comments today calling for some meaningful gun control.

At the same time, details of another mass shooting emerged. This time a former pro-footballer killed his Dr and 4 others, including 2 children.

briany

To be honest, these shootings have been going on in America for the last 20 years. Actually, they've been going on for much, much longer than that, but the country entered a new era of in terms of density and severity of occurrence since the Columbine massacre. I think since it's been going on that long, we may just have to accept that it's a part of living in that country and it's barely even news since it's not a novel thing.

There may well never be meaningful gun control legislation, and there may never be an end to the American fetishisation of the people who commit these acts. I was going to say that it's a bit like a natural disaster, although it's not because it is entirely manmade, but it is random and senseless in terms of who it targets, as a natural disaster is. So, if you travel to a place where volcanic eruptions happen, you have to on some level accept you could get caught up in one, and if you travel to America, you have to accept you could be sitting in a coffee shop somewhere and some random maniac might walk in and shoot you and many of the other patrons dead.

At this point, the only time I change the channel or click into the story is if there is an exceptionally high body count, or if the killer has a 'gimmick' of some sort like they livestreamed the rampage or dressed up as a clown.

Rows Grower

briany wrote: »

To be honest, these shootings have been going on in America for the last 20 years. Actually, they've been going on for much, much longer than that, but the country entered a new era of in terms of density and severity of occurrence since the Columbine massacre. I think since it's been going on that long, we may just have to accept that it's a part of living in that country and it's barely even news since it's not a novel thing.

There may well never be meaningful gun control legislation, and there may never be an end to the American fetishisation of the people who commit these acts. I was going to say that it's a bit like a natural disaster, although it's not because it is entirely manmade, but it is random and senseless in terms of who it targets, as a natural disaster is. So, if you travel to a place where volcanic eruptions happen, you have to on some level accept you could get caught up in one, and if you travel to America, you have to accept you could be sitting in a coffee shop somewhere and some random maniac might walk in and shoot you and many of the other patrons dead.

At this point, the only time I change the channel or click into the story is if there is an exceptionally high body count, or if the killer has a 'gimmick' of some sort like they livestreamed the rampage or dressed up as a clown.

It's a sad state of affairs if this is deemed acceptable by people who have the power to change it.

briany

Rows Grower wrote: »

It's a sad state of affairs if this is deemed acceptable by people who have the power to change it.

Nobody in power is going to flatly say it's acceptable but the political back and forth over gun control, and the apparent paralysis because of that means that the possibility of being randomly mown down by a maniac with a gun in the States remains. I'm not saying it's a statistically-high possibility because it's still a huge country, but nor are these incidents particularly shocking or surprising anymore. They're too frequent to be so.

kowloon

Tell me how wrote: »

I would enforce the implementation of a gun registry for every gun sold in any location/venue. I would force the gun industry to pay for the set up and running of it and if they refused to do so, I would take away their license to produce/sell weapons. Hell, even let the NRA administer it, as long as it functions correctly and is auditable.

The NRA has issues with internal corruption, they're a bad choice to run anything.

Tell me how

The state of play in tweets.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1380244052239605764

How the Texas Governor reacted.

https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1380200140439498754

And just an hour later.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1380268341135310848

Meanwhile

https://twitter.com/chipfranklin/status/1380267135583223808

And is this what the people of Tennessee wanted? This tweet would suggest definitely not.

https://twitter.com/KristiCornettTN/status/1380246949257998336

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote:

Thoughts and prayers!

Wanderer78 wrote:

Nothing to see here!

.........

Pa ElGrande

Chicago Has Seen 700 Homicides, 3,000 Shootings Thus Far in 2020

Chicago ends 2020 with 769 homicides as gun violence surges

Chicago Sees 51 Homicides in January — Highest in 4 Years

The Chicago shootings are reported but have become regular news because they are a constant and because they occur daily just don’t get the headlines that “mass shootings” do. There are 365 days in a year, that's two murders a day. Handguns seem to be the weapon of choice, not all homicides in Chicago are with guns, knives and other implements are used as well (~100+ deaths). Guns don't magically drop from the sky and fire themselves, someone has to make a concious decision to pull the trigger. There is a pathology at work in that city that drives the demand for guns that goes something like this:

• Turf wars (defending territory used to sell drugs)
• Pride/Hubris (retaliation for either a real, or perceived, insult)
• Revenge killings (retaliation for #1 & #2 above)
• Proving manhood (an outgrowth of Pride/Hubris … I’m a big man, so, I can just pop off some rounds at anyone I want to)
• Domestic (cheating, money, …)
• Stupid accidents (leaving a loaded firearm around, playing with a loaded gun aka Darwin awards…)

Gun Control laws will never work in that town to stop homicides because of the culture, these guys buy some guns on the black market (sic) at high mark-up compared to the rest of the US so they will find or manufacture a weapon. Most major cities in the USA have bad neighbourhoods, but why in particular is Chicago at the very top? Weapons are not easy to obtain for law abiding citizens of the United States, they are even harder to obtain for criminals, but if the price is right they can be had.

BattleCorp

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Weapons are not easy to obtain for law abiding citizens of the United States, they are even harder to obtain for criminals, but if the price is right they can be had.

It's relatively easy to legally obtain a firearm in most places in the US, as long as you aren't a convicted felon.

osarusan

Don't know if it has been mentioned already, the the BBC had something interesting on 'ghost guns':

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56672892

Mr Biden's executive order gives the Justice Department 30 days to propose a rule that will help reduce the number of so-called "ghost guns".

These guns are self-assembled, which means they do not contain a serial number and cannot be traced. Background checks are also not required to purchase the assembly kits.

"Anyone from a criminal to a terrorist can buy this kit and, in as little as 30 minutes, put together a weapon," Mr Biden said.

Experts say that these homemade guns are increasingly being used in crimes. Over 40% of guns being seized in Los Angeles are ghost guns, according to federal firearms officials.

Seems like a crazy flaw/loophole that somebody who would not be able to buy a gun because of background checks could just buy an assembly kit instead.

BattleCorp

osarusan wrote: »

Don't know if it has been mentioned already, the the BBC had something interesting on 'ghost guns':

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56672892



Seems like a crazy flaw/loophole that somebody who would not be able to buy a gun because of background checks could just buy an assembly kit instead.

It's totally legal in most states to make your own gun as long as it is for your own use. Biden will find it hard to change that.

AbusesToilets

Tell me how wrote: »

The state of play in tweets.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1380244052239605764

How the Texas Governor reacted.

https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1380200140439498754

And just an hour later.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1380268341135310848

Meanwhile

https://twitter.com/chipfranklin/status/1380267135583223808

And is this what the people of Tennessee wanted? This tweet would suggest definitely not.

https://twitter.com/KristiCornettTN/status/1380246949257998336

Naked fear mongering from Biden, as per is the usual MO from Democrats. It's so much easier to attack legal gun owners than it is to tackle the root causes of violence and suicide in the country.

Tell me how

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Naked fear mongering from Biden, as per is the usual MO from Democrats. It's so much easier to attack legal gun owners than it is to tackle the root causes of violence and suicide in the country.

And here we are with the usual deflection we see from conservatives.

Several thousand gun death and injuries a year, 'lets do nothing'.
A literal handful of cases of voter fraud (mostly by republicans) 'lets bring in massive numbers of voting laws'.

By all means, show us the initiatives conservatives have introduced, or want to talk about when it comes to mental health. America has 5% of the world population and 20% of the worlds incarcerated people. And in the past few days, a conservative commentator said that they have a massive under-incarceration problem. Are more prisons the answer now? We're just out of 4 years from a Republican President. What did he do on these issues?
When people were talking about allocating funding from policing last summer to help deal with things like violence and mental health, why don't you tell us what the conservative position was then.

AbusesToilets

Tell me how wrote: »

And here we are with the usual deflection we see from conservatives.

Several thousand gun death and injuries a year, 'lets do nothing'.
A literal handful of cases of voter fraud (mostly by republicans) 'lets bring in massive numbers of voting laws'.

By all means, show us the initiatives conservatives have introduced, or want to talk about when it comes to mental health. America has 5% of the world population and 20% of the worlds incarcerated people. And in the past few days, a conservative commentator said that they have a massive under-incarceration problem. Are more prisons the answer now? We're just out of 4 years from a Republican President. What did he do on these issues?
When people were talking about allocating funding from policing last summer to help deal with things like violence and mental health, why don't you tell us what the conservative position was then.

As usual, trying to label me as a Conservative. Lolz at that.

You are literally incapable of not engaging with whataboutism and strawmen arguments. Here we are in a thread about gun violence and now you're off on a spiel about prisons and voter fraud.

Biden has chosen to focus his energies on pushing for an assault weapons ban. This is despite the clear evidence that the previous one accomplished nothing, and that the number of rifle related deaths per year is fractions of a percentage. Those on the anti-gun side love to demonise gun owners, labeling them as selfish, usually white conservatives. A popular pejorative nowadays. Much easier to attack them then engage with the real drivers of gun deaths, which are suicides (usually older men) and urban blacks.

Tell me how

AbusesToilets wrote: »

As usual, trying to label me as a Conservative. Lolz at that.

You are literally incapable of not engaging with whataboutism and strawmen arguments. Here we are in a thread about gun violence and now you're off on a spiel about prisons and voter fraud.

Biden has chosen to focus his energies on pushing for an assault weapons ban. This is despite the clear evidence that the previous one accomplished nothing, and that the number of rifle related deaths per year is fractions of a percentage. Those on the anti-gun side love to demonise gun owners, labeling them as selfish, usually white conservatives. A popular pejorative nowadays. Much easier to attack them then engage with the real drivers of gun deaths, which are suicides (usually older men) and urban blacks.

Deflect, deflect, deflect. Plus ca change.

AbusesToilets

Tell me how wrote: »

Deflect, deflect, deflect. Plus ca change.

You refuse to engage in a discussion. You make outlandish statements, then run away when someone refutes. Rinse and repeat. You're a busted flush at this stage.

Tell me how

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You refuse to engage in a discussion. You make outlandish statements, then run away when someone refutes. Rinse and repeat. You're a busted flush at this stage.

Lol.

You won't suggest solutions to mental health or violence issues.
You won't give examples of how the last conservative administration was doing to deal with those.
You won't explain why conservative are so in love with the second amendment while not giving a **** about amendments designed to ensure everyone can vote without difficulty.

By all means pick one of these topics and lets discuss. I've offered several detailed proposals to initiate a move towards less gun deaths on this thread. What have you done, apart from blaming liberals with Fox News by lines and buzzwords?

AbusesToilets

Tell me how wrote: »

Lol.

You won't suggest solutions to mental health or violence issues.
You won't give examples of how the last conservative administration was doing to deal with those.
You won't explain why conservative are so in love with the second amendment while not giving a **** about amendments designed to ensure everyone can vote without difficulty.

By all means pick one of these topics and lets discuss. I've offered several detailed proposals to initiate a move towards less gun deaths on this thread. What have you done, apart from blaming liberals with Fox News by lines and buzzwords?

I literally did, posts ago, so as usual you've shown yourself to be dishonest and a liar. No point in engaging with you.

Tell me how

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Naked fear mongering from Biden, as per is the usual MO from Democrats. It's so much easier to attack legal gun owners than it is to tackle the root causes of violence and suicide in the country.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

As usual, trying to label me as a Conservative. Lolz at that.

You are literally incapable of not engaging with whataboutism and strawmen arguments. Here we are in a thread about gun violence and now you're off on a spiel about prisons and voter fraud.

Biden has chosen to focus his energies on pushing for an assault weapons ban. This is despite the clear evidence that the previous one accomplished nothing, and that the number of rifle related deaths per year is fractions of a percentage. Those on the anti-gun side love to demonise gun owners, labeling them as selfish, usually white conservatives. A popular pejorative nowadays. Much easier to attack them then engage with the real drivers of gun deaths, which are suicides (usually older men) and urban blacks.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You refuse to engage in a discussion. You make outlandish statements, then run away when someone refutes. Rinse and repeat. You're a busted flush at this stage.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I literally did, posts ago, so as usual you've shown yourself to be dishonest and a liar. No point in engaging with you.

The above are all your posts from today. Please show me where you provided solutions to tackle mental health and violence issues.


You did have this post below previously, an answer I had to pull out of you after I advocated mental health classes would be more productive than the gun classes someone else had suggested for school kids.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'd have no issues with classes on mental health and wellness. The other ones less so, seem rather prone to being agenda driven nowadays. I'd think the gun education would be of more value.

Is that the extent of the solutions you have offered? So, I have offered proposals to impact on gun violence, I suggested mental health classes or mindfulness which would obviously help with the mental health of those students when they older, and you suggest I am the one refusing to engage in discussion? And I am dishonest and a liar?

All you are doing here is trying to stop any conversation about gun control. Full stop.
I don't care about you saying these things about me, anyone reading the thread can see what I have posted and the logic of the posts is self explanatory, but please, show me what I am missing from your contributions.

Is that all you are doing here, trying to get people to stop pointing out the reality of what is happening?

newhouse87

Why didnt lebron come out and say coward ass young man (like he did for the Atlanta shooter)after former nfl player Phillip Adams shot and killed six people including children in south carolina this past week. His and others hypocrisy incredible.

salmocab

newhouse87 wrote: »

Why didnt lebron come out and say coward ass young man (like he did for the Atlanta shooter)after former nfl player Phillip Adams shot and killed six people including children in south carolina this past week. His and others hypocrisy incredible.

Is he contractually obliged to comment on all mass shootings?

newhouse87

salmocab wrote: »

Is he contractually obliged to comment on all mass shootings?

If you comment one why not comment on another where kids were shot dead? How does he choose which to comment on?

salmocab

newhouse87 wrote: »

If you comment one why not comment on another where kids were shot dead? How does he choose which to comment on?

There’s an awful lot of them has he commented on them all before and this is the one he missed?

newhouse87

salmocab wrote: »

There’s an awful lot of them has he commented on them all before and this is the one he missed?

Seems to be a pattern, depending on the perpetrator of course.

Cody montana

BREAKING: Multiple victims, including a police officer, in shooting at Knoxville, Tennessee high school

Pussyhands

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1381705175518298116