Hit by a car while in the cycle lane.

stevencn88

So while out enjoying the lovely Paddys Day weather I was hit by a car. Both traveling in the same direction when the car turned left and hit me (I was in the the cycle lane). The Gards arrived and were unsure if the motorist was at fault as they didn't know the rules of the road around cycle lanes. My understanding is a cycle lane must be kept clear, and can only be temporarily occupied by other road users when not occupied by a cyclest. Has anyone had a similar situation or experience?

The bike is a little scratched but nothing I'd be worried about. Got checked out by a Doc this morning. Right shoulder isn't great and I've an odd tingleing in my hand and elbow.

wench

Did he catch up to you and turn across you, or did you go up the inside of him as he maneuvered?

stevencn88

wench wrote: »

Did he catch up to you and turn across you, or did you go up the inside of him as he maneuvered?

I came up on the left while he was stopped waiting for cars to clear from the entrance to the carpark he was trying to turn into, I was nearly clear of him when he started his maneuver. Should have mentioned above that after the accident I noticed his wing mirror on the passenger side was closed in. So there was no way he was ever going to see me

Wailin

Was he indicating to turn left as you came up on his inside?

Sam Quentin

Wailin wrote: »

Was he indicating to turn left as you came up on his inside?

Good question because if he was(I'm not sure of the law here!?)well you should not have proceeded... So DODGY

stevencn88

Wailin wrote: »

Was he indicating to turn left as you came up on his inside?

Honestly couldn't say either way.

Locotastic

stevencn88 wrote: »

I came up on the left while he was stopped waiting for cars to clear from the entrance to the carpark he was trying to turn into, I was nearly clear of him when he started his maneuver. Should have mentioned above that after the accident I noticed his wing mirror on the passenger side was closed in. So there was no way he was ever going to see me

Did you know he was turning left?

Did he have his indicator on signalling that he was turning left?

A cyclist can overtake a vehicle on the left (or inside of the flow of traffic) if the vehicles to the right are stationary or moving more slowly than the cyclist.

However as a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:

Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it

whippet

when undertaking a car you do so at your own risk - you seemed to know that he was turning in to the carpark and yet chose to continue on as if the driver was going to spot you and give way to you.

whippet

stevencn88 wrote: »

Honestly couldn't say either way.

this is the answer to the question then - if you don't know you were not cycling with due car and attention

07Lapierre

If the car was indicating that it was turning left, then you should have passed the car on the right or stopped and given way.

BUT using your indicator does not give a motorist right of way. Their is still an onus on a driver to ensure it is safe before moving.

Was the bike lane clearly marked with a solid white line or was it a broken white line?

stevencn88

To give an idea as to the junction (I hope the link works)

https://maps.app.goo.gl/oyoNLbE6m5qwGNw89

Driver was stopped outside of the yellow box when I started to pass him.

Wailin

Broken white line, car more than likely indicating to turn left. Lack of awareness from both parties imo so 50/50.

Thelonious Monk

I don't know why you'd turn left without checking for cyclists first though, if his wing mirror was down this was his fault imo

07Lapierre

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't know why you'd turn left without checking for cyclists first though, if his wing mirror was down this was his fault imo

OP probably wasn't wearing Hi viz!

Stihl waters

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't know why you'd turn left without checking for cyclists first though, if his wing mirror was down this was his fault imo

The same could be said for the cyclist tho, can't say if indicator was on or not, both at fault, all the driver has to say is their indicator was on and it becomes a cyclist undertaking illegally

stevencn88

Stihl waters wrote: »

The same could be said for the cyclist tho, can't say if indicator was on or not, both at fault, all the driver has to say is their indicator was on and it becomes a cyclist undertaking illegally

So would the fact he was stopped and behind the yellow box (in the above Google map link) when I started to pass him make any odds?? Was it an illigal undertaking?

zell12

On a wee tangent,
Imagine instead of a cycle lane, it was a bus lane.
A double decker is travelling along, car in regular lane indicates left, takes a left and bus hits car.
Who would be responsible, why is it different than a pedal cycle? or is it the broken/solid white line differential?

Wailin

zell12 wrote: »

On a wee tangent,
Imagine instead of a cycle lane, it was a bus lane.
A double decker is travelling along, car in regular lane indicates left, takes a left and bus hits car.
Who would be responsible, why is it different than a pedal cycle? or is it the broken/solid white line differential?

Well, for one thing, a bus wouldn't plough through a junction without stopping.

stevencn88

zell12 wrote: »

On a wee tangent,
Imagine instead of a cycle lane, it was a bus lane.
A double decker is travelling along, car in regular lane indicates left, takes a left and bus hits car.
Who would be responsible, why is it different than a pedal cycle? or is it the broken/solid white line differential?

My understanding was that a motorist can enter a cycle lane with a broken white line as long as it is clear/safe to do so and a continuous white line they can't?

martyc5674

whippet wrote: »

this is the answer to the question then - if you don't know you were not cycling with due car and attention

Ah that’s hardly fair- I can’t remember every detail about my drives or cycles- doesn’t mean I wasn’t giving due attention at the time. You get clipped by a car you go into shock a little, your not necessarily going to remember every detail.

OP if this goes to court or you give a statement- choose your words carefully, the above response will give you an idea of how your views can be dismissed/twisted very easily.(that’s not a dig at whippet)

Wailin

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't know why you'd turn left without checking for cyclists first though, if his wing mirror was down this was his fault imo

According to the original poster. Seriously though, who drives around with a folded wing mirror?

Thelonious Monk

Stihl waters wrote: »

The same could be said for the cyclist tho, can't say if indicator was on or not, both at fault, all the driver has to say is their indicator was on and it becomes a cyclist undertaking illegally

Yeah but one person is in a machine that can kill, onus should be on them to check before turning.

Wailin

martyc5674 wrote: »

OP if this goes to court or you give a statement- choose your words carefully, the above response will give you an idea of how your views can be dismissed/twisted very easily.(that’s not a dig at whippet)

Compo culture at it's finest. You sound like an expert.

stevencn88

Wailin wrote: »

According to the original poster. Seriously though, who drives around with a folded wing mirror?

A very old man who hit me with his car!

martyc5674

Wailin wrote: »

Compo culture at it's finest. You sound like an expert.

Expert I ain’t in that field!!

whippet

stevencn88 wrote: »

A very old man who hit me with his car!

How did you notice this ore accident and not note the indicator .. or maybe you bumped the wing mirror when you hit the car and it folded in ?

secman

"The Gards arrived and were unsure if the motorist was at fault as they didn't know the rules of the road around cycle lanes"
This wasn't very encouraging from a cyclists perspective !

Buddy Bubs

I cycle to work once a week and I'm a motorist too so I'm on both sides of the fence here.....hinges on whether the indicator was on or not as to where the fault lies in my opinion.

However, I'm a bit confused as to how there's a left turn into somewhere that goes through the bike lane. Any junctions I've seen the bike lane ceases to exist for a while.

Grey area really and without all the facts hard to determine who is right and who is wrong here.

07Lapierre

stevencn88 wrote: »

My understanding was that a motorist can enter a cycle lane with a broken white line as long as it is clear/safe to do so and a continuous white line they can't?

I don't think the law is that "black & white". Car can't cross a solid white line. A broken white line ....yes, "as long as it's safe to do so". But the same applies to cyclists.

stevencn88

martyc5674 wrote: »

Ah that’s hardly fair- I can’t remember every detail about my drives or cycles- doesn’t mean I wasn’t giving due attention at the time. You get clipped by a car you go into shock a little, your not necessarily going to remember every detail.

OP if this goes to court or you give a statement- choose your words carefully, the above response will give you an idea of how your views can be dismissed/twisted very easily.(that’s not a dig at whippet)

Can't see myself going the route of a claim. Honestly just trying to figure out who's at fault so I can learn from it myself. But I appreciate the advice.

magicbastarder

stevencn88 wrote: »

My understanding was that a motorist can enter a cycle lane with a broken white line as long as it is clear/safe to do so and a continuous white line they can't?

motorists are not allowed drive or park *in* mandatory cycle lanes, but they can cross them for access.

Hurrache

whippet wrote: »

.. or maybe you bumped the wing mirror when you hit the car and it folded in ?

Unless he was cycling backwards, hitting a mirror when passing doesn't make them fold inwards.

mad m

OP are you ok, did you sustain bad injury due to this occurrence?

the_amazing_raisin

whippet wrote: »

How did you notice this ore accident and not note the indicator .. or maybe you bumped the wing mirror when you hit the car and it folded in ?

It'd be quite a trick to fold the car mirror in while undertaking a car, more likely to bash it forwards

It's a 50/50 blame IMO, driver of the car is responsible for his mirrors being correctly positioned and for using them properly. Cyclist needs to take more care when undertaking vehicles and pay attention to whether they're indicating to turn left

stevencn88

whippet wrote: »

How did you notice this ore accident and not note the indicator .. or maybe you bumped the wing mirror when you hit the car and it folded in ?

Noticed the wing mirror after the accident happened and we'd pulled into the car park. I pointed it out to the driver who pulled it back into place. He hit me with the front/side of his car so I can't see how I'd have hit his mirror (land rovers have a very large bonnet)

the_amazing_raisin

Hurrache wrote: »

Unless he was cycling backwards, hitting a mirror when passing doesn't make them fold inwards.

That would also explain why he didn't see the indicator as well

stevencn88

mad m wrote: »

OP are you ok, did you sustain bad injury due to this occurrence?

Wouldn't say bad injury. Somewhat stiff today, enough to warrant a visit to the docs to get checked out.

mrcheez

Did the driver offer to pay for your doctor bill or bike repairs?

If yes then I would assume you were square.

He didn't have his wing mirror out and performed a left turn without observing any traffic to left.

Motorist clearly at fault on this aspect alone.

stevencn88

mrcheez wrote: »

Did the driver offer to pay for your doctor bill or bike repairs?

If yes then I would assume you were square.

He didn't have his wing mirror out and performed a left turn without observing any traffic to left.

Motorist clearly at fault on this aspect alone.

No he didn't offer anything. Guess that would be admitting liability?

mrcheez

stevencn88 wrote: »

No he didn't offer anything. Guess that would be admitting liability?

Did the gardai say anything about the fact his wing mirror wasn't out and he wasn't driving safely as a result?

secman

A long time cycling but only a recent convert to commuting to work on the bike. I am very wary of junctions with left turns as not every car that's turning left indicate their intention to do so. I generally presume the car to my right is likely to turn and approach with caution.
My other observation is that generally speaking a lot of cycling lanes are poorly designed and poorly maintained, the ones approaching roundabouts that are segregated are baffling if you intend to go straight through the roundabout !
Anyways OP glad to hear that you are relatively okay.

Stihl waters

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah but one person is in a machine that can kill, onus should be on them to check before turning.

Agreed, the car should make doubly sure the way is clear

Locotastic

stevencn88 wrote: »

A very old man who hit me with his car!

Or a very old man who's car you hit with your bike. Depends on the perspective!

secman

The jeep was stopped and even if he was indicating his intention to turn left, once he began to move forward how did he then check his inside to see if it was safe to proceed to turn if his passenger side mirror was folded in. Indicators are to indicate an intention to turn or manoeuvre left or right once safe to do so, they are not a "right" to such. I'm both a driver and a cyclist and rarely a day on the road goes by where you don't see an indicator/turn/manoeuvre being carried out in an instant without a lag to check if safe to proceed.

mrcheez

The driver could have hit a jogger coming up on the path in the inside... it's clear negligence on the part of the driver because they weren't observant before pulling in left.

Glad you're OK OP but I would have stuck to my guns on getting the doctor bill paid and an insurance inspection on the bike at the very least.

Is your helmet damaged?

wench

stevencn88 wrote: »

Can't see myself going the route of a claim. Honestly just trying to figure out who's at fault so I can learn from it myself. But I appreciate the advice.

Being right won't keep you safe!

Slow moving traffic like that leaves you very exposed to the left turn you encountered, or the corresponding right turn through the yellow box who may not see you.
Assume everyone else on the roads is an idiot out to kill you, and keep alert.

Stihl waters

stevencn88 wrote: »

So would the fact he was stopped and behind the yellow box (in the above Google map link) when I started to pass him make any odds?? Was it an illigal undertaking?

No but as I said all the driver has to say is he was moving slowly and indicator was on, how can they prove/disprove who's right or wrong

Mongfinder General

[quote. Is your helmet damaged?[/quote]

What has that got to do with the accident?

mrcheez

Stihl waters wrote: »

how can they prove/disprove who's right or wrong

by saying he had no wing mirror out?

mrcheez

Mongfinder General wrote: »

What has that got to do with the accident?

That's additional equipment that the driver would need to pay for, apart from repairs to the bike.

I was knocked off my bike recently. My helmet was split in 2. I got that replacement paid for, along with bike repairs.

Stihl waters

mrcheez wrote: »

by saying he had no wing mirror out?

Did the gardai take note of this I wonder