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Can't put weights down ! Fitter at 40?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Week 10 Day 2 Deadlift

    T1 Deadlift
    Find 5 RM

    60/80/100/120*5 All good
    I was between 130 and 140 I know I know I shouldn't think of what I lifted before but knew I struggled with 140 X 4 and barely made last rep last time . Tempted by 130 but went
    140 X 5 ..... Man that was tough each rep was a struggle to lock out , pulling the bar up my quads , it wasn't as pretty as DTP1979 video but it's done . That's above my 1 rep max coming into this program.
    Working sets of 126kg for 2/2/3*

    T2a Front squat
    6 sets of 3 at 75kg
    That was good nice depth , bracing etc very happy took 1 minute rest then another 20 seconds setting up , wasn't too bothered on rest times no more than 90 seconds .

    T2b bent over row barbell
    Find 6 rep max
    Worked up in 10kg increments From empty bar
    60kg X 6/4/4/4 off 45 seconds

    T3a Seated OHP dumbells
    Find 14 rep max and 3 MRS
    12.5KGS X 14/12/9/8 off 45 seconds

    T3b tricep extension
    With bands for 14 rep max and 3 more
    14/12/11/9 off 45 seconds
    Started to feel ab doms during these maybe from earlier or yesterday.

    T3c Ab wheel
    3 sets of 5 off 45 seconds
    My rollouts won't look like others here but I can't compare my journey to theirs . Respect if you can go core to ground on these . I put 2 piece of duct tape on ground and worked within my range , did I feel the burn yes big time.

    Completed 1 hour 30 mins .
    Workouts are getting longer , I'm getting less done but the quality of everything I do is 100 times better , all the little tips you guys give me have been a godsend thanks .


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Did you jump from 120 to 140?
    Id do a single at 130 if that's close to your max


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Did you jump from 120 to 140?
    Id do a single at 130 if that's close to your max

    Yeah 120 straight to 140, I've been following Alf's advice of working up in sets of whatever your max rep attempt is going to be . So after a set of 5 at 120 I was thinking I'll make 5 at 130 but it might hinder my attempt at 140.
    My max is 150. 140 for 5 was always going to be hard ., None of them came straight up .


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,598 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    new2tri19 wrote: »
    Yeah 120 straight to 140, I've been following Alf's advice of working up in sets of whatever your max rep attempt is going to be . So after a set of 5 at 120 I was thinking I'll make 5 at 130 but it might hinder my attempt at 140.
    My max is 150. 140 for 5 was always going to be hard ., None of them came straight up .

    It's still probably too big a jump on a set of 5 but I get it.

    That said, I'd probably have gone for 130x5 and gauged on that. Its sufficiently within what you've done for 4 that you should be able for a heavier set of 5.

    If that ended up with you doing 130x5 and then 135x5, is that worse than just doing 140x5?

    But I know what it's like to want to jump to a number based on previous numbers. But just don't lose sight of the fact that you don't need to be chasing numbers on top sets. Sure, you want them to be on the money but take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Your progress will be driven be volume. If you tested in a week, doing 140x5 or 130x5 followed by 135x5 isn't going to be the biggest factor for what you might max on. Going to a top set let's you feel a heavier weight but the volume is what's building the foundation. So don't get too caught up in that top set and let how it feels guide you...taking jumps that are that big make it hard to gauge by feel.

    Its still early days and in the longer term, I think it would serve you well to take smaller jumps coming to the heavy weights so you understand the difference of how X weight feels for a set of 5 and how it feels at 10kg heavier (for a deadlift) because it just let's you understand the difference in feel with more accuracy for you and that will stand to you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    It's still probably too big a jump on a set of 5 but I get it.

    That said, I'd probably have gone for 130x5 and gauged on that. Its sufficiently within what you've done for 4 that you should be able for a heavier set of 5.

    If that ended up with you doing 130x5 and then 135x5, is that worse than just doing 140x5?

    But I know what it's like to want to jump to a number based on previous numbers. But just don't lose sight of the fact that you don't need to be chasing numbers on top sets. Sure, you want them to be on the money but take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Your progress will be driven be volume. If you tested in a week, doing 140x5 or 130x5 followed by 135x5 isn't going to be the biggest factor for what you might max on. Going to a top set let's you feel a heavier weight but the volume is what's building the foundation. So don't get too caught up in that top set and let how it feels guide you...taking jumps that are that big make it hard to gauge by feel.

    Its still early days and in the longer term, I think it would serve you well to take smaller jumps coming to the heavy weights so you understand the difference of how X weight feels for a set of 5 and how it feels at 10kg heavier (for a deadlift) because it just let's you understand the difference in feel with more accuracy for you and that will stand to you.

    Yeah your right 100% and I needed to hear that thanks . If I'm totally honest I had 140 X 5 in my head as my target before I started the session . Need to change that mindset of constantly chasing PB's I should of just done 130 X 5 then 135 X 5 that would be 10 lifts instead of the 5 I did.
    Sets of 5 RM are tough especially at the heavier weights even with chalk my grip started to fail on last rep at 120 it was just hanging on my fingers . I used straps for 140 lift .
    I'm getting near my absolute max I'm putting everything I've got into these lifts .
    I had in my head earlier next week will I go for 145 X 3 or 150, now I'll scrap that and do 120-130-135-140-145 and be happy to stop anywhere along the list.
    I keep making the mistake of viewing the pb lift as the beneficial lift bit it's the volume sets on the way up that I should be concentrating on. Thanks


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,598 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    new2tri19 wrote: »
    Yeah your right 100% and I needed to hear that thanks . If I'm totally honest I had 140 X 5 in my head as my target before I started the session . Need to change that mindset of constantly chasing PB's I should of just done 130 X 5 then 135 X 5 that would be 10 lifts instead of the 5 I did.
    Sets of 5 RM are tough especially at the heavier weights even with chalk my grip started to fail on last rep at 120 it was just hanging on my fingers . I used straps for 140 lift .
    I'm getting near my absolute max I'm putting everything I've got into these lifts .
    I had in my head earlier next week will I go for 145 X 3 or 150, now I'll scrap that and do 120-130-135-140-145 and be happy to stop anywhere along the list.
    I keep making the mistake of viewing the pb lift as the beneficial lift bit it's the volume sets on the way up that I should be concentrating on. Thanks

    It's not really the volume sets on the way up, as such....you know how you have 'working sets' after the top set. There's a reason they're called the 'working sets' :)

    But again this is something I've been guilty of so I'm just telling you what I've learned from doing the same as you in the earlier chapters of my training


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    That was one of the reasons I felt I had to get a true 5 rep max because the working sets are 90% of that number so if I had of stopped at 130 for 5 would of been 117 instead of 127.
    But I get your point thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,598 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    new2tri19 wrote: »
    That was one of the reasons I felt I had to get a true 5 rep max because the working sets are 90% of that number so if I had of stopped at 130 for 5 would of been 117 instead of 127.
    But I get your point thanks



    If you felt you hadn't enough to go for a heavier set of 5 with 132.5/135/137.5/140, so be it. You'll do more reps with 117 than 127....they're both in a range where you'll be doing a lot of work in (117 is 72% of projected max, 127 is 78%).


    Your top sets aren't going to be an absolute max anyway. Most people leave a rep or two in the tank on their top sets because it doesn't need to be an absolute max for it and the back-offs to be beneficial.

    ETA: When you've done an absolute max set, you've emptied the tank ahead of the back-offs as well so you want that balance between going heavy on the top set but leave a rep in the tank so you can maximise on the back-offs


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    If you felt you hadn't enough to go for a heavier set of 5 with 132.5/135/137.5/140, so be it. You'll do more reps with 117 than 127....they're both in a range where you'll be doing a lot of work in (117 is 72% of projected max, 127 is 78%).


    Your top sets aren't going to be an absolute max anyway. Most people leave a rep or two in the tank on their top sets because it doesn't need to be an absolute max for it and the back-offs to be beneficial.

    When I picked this program it looked fairly idiot proof, it's amazing how many little tweaks in mindset/techniques / weight selection are needed to get the maximum benefit from the program . I used to wonder why people would pay for a.coach but it's fairly evident that there is lots of things that new lifters just don't see and/or intuitively get correctly .
    Everyday is a schoolday as they say .
    Thanks again


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,598 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    new2tri19 wrote: »
    When I picked this program it looked fairly idiot proof, it's amazing how many little tweaks in mindset/techniques / weight selection are needed to get the maximum benefit from the program . I used to wonder why people would pay for a.coach but it's fairly evident that there is lots of things that new lifters just don't see and/or intuitively get correctly .
    Everyday is a schoolday as they say .
    Thanks again

    It's not that you're doing it wrong so don't feel like you are. You don't need to be second-guessing what you're doing. It's really just to just be mindful that the top set doesn't have to be an RPE 10 (absolute max).

    I've done all the things I'm pointing out to you...that's largely why I recognise them :)

    You just don't need to sail too close to the sun on the top set because you want to make the most of the working sets.

    It's all just minor tweaks at that point of deciding on the top set...aside from that keep doing what you're doing because you're making progress.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Day 2 squatting till I hate life

    90 mins bike session in shed the whole time looking at squat rack and thinking yeah it's gotta be done. I was actually looking forward to it . Bike was mostly zone 2 with a few sprints .

    20 X 10
    30 X 10
    40 X 10
    50 X 10
    60 X 8
    70 X 6
    75 X 4
    80 X 2
    Added extra 85 X 2
    And then did it in reverse pyramid for 124 squats.
    Really enjoyed them .

    Completed in 35 mins .

    Im not killing myself on these getting a good pump in legs and a better feeling for been under the bar . I've trained 7 days a week for a long time . I don't really do rest days. If it wasn't squat it would be a run off the bike .
    Google says squats are ok to do everyday so I'm hoping that these won't mess up my plan too much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,598 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    You'll have a Bulgarian passport at the end of it


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,799 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    Squat 7 days a week?????????


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Squat 7 days a week?????????
    No I don't think I have time to squat everyday . Plan looks roughly like this but I can drop runs as not training for anything. likely I'll add swimming in instead of walking from June . Often walk in work at lunch when I've notbing else to do


    Sunday - bench / close grip bench + 1 hour bike
    Monday - run 60 mins and 30-40 mins squats
    Tuesday - deadlift / front squat + 1 hour walk
    Wednesday - 90 mins bike and squats
    Thursday - ohp and 1 hour bike and 30 min run
    Friday - 1 hour bike + 1 hour walk
    Saturday - squat +;Def deadlift and long run

    It looks alot but the bike sessions are mostly very light and I just chill watch Netflix or football while cycling zone 2 .


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,799 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    Jaysus that’s a fair workload. That’ll serve you well in strength training, young Ronnie Coleman


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Jaysus that’s a fair workload. That’ll serve you well in strength training, young Ronnie Coleman

    :D:D Ronnie Coleman !
    It used to be alot more training I was looking at some memories on Facebook from 2019 and it's frightening how thin I was at around 59-62kg , doing 2-3 hours cardio a day no breakfast , ate very little meat because it upset my runs , was drinking oat milk because milk would give me heartrun and I'd run at least once a day . I was probably on 1200-1500 calories a day and destroying myself . No idea of protein if I got hungry I'd eat cereal bars all quick carbs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,799 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    new2tri19 wrote: »
    :D:D Ronnie Coleman !
    It used to be alot more training I was looking at some memories on Facebook from 2019 and it's frightening how thin I was at around 59-62kg , doing 2-3 hours cardio a day no breakfast , ate very little meat because it upset my runs , was drinking oat milk because milk would give me heartrun and I'd run at least once a day . I was probably on 1200-1500 calories a day and destroying myself . No idea of protein if I got hungry I'd eat cereal bars all quick carbs.

    Sounds a lot like me 7 years ago. Throwing a barbell on your back will sort you out soon enough


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Week 10 Day 3 OHP

    I've had a niggling pain on the right side of my back for a few days now , it first appeared the day after OHP day last week . I've been getting on with it but can feel it on deep breaths on the bike .
    Anyways as soon as I did incline bench tonight the realisation came from doing this too heavy over previous week's the pain was bad unless my back lay flat to bench .

    T1 ohp
    Find 5 rep max
    20/30/40/45 X 5
    50 X 5 was all I had on a disappointing night .
    46 X 2/2/4* amrap

    T2a incline bench
    6 sets of 3 at 60kg
    I reduced this to 57.5kg
    Set 1 still felt heavy so reduced to 55kg for set 2-6 as the sets went on that pain I mentioned came on strong , I've pushed too hard on this albeit it was programmed too heavy but I should of listened to my body and reduced weight 2/3 weeks ago and now I'm paying for it .

    T2b chest supported dumbell row
    Find 6 rep max and 3 more MRS
    Worked up to 25kg dumbells heaviest I have ended up at 4 sets of 6.

    T2c dumbell bench press
    Find 6 rep max and 3 more MRS
    I worked up to 25kg's but after first set I was getting some discomfort so sacked off the session .

    Completed in about an hour or less , 1 hour bike and 1 hour walk done .
    Was a bit annoyed about pain but then I remembered if I can't bench I can squat more so every cloud , that's why I liked triathlon you get a running injury and you can use it as a chance to do a huge swim block .


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Week 11 Program paused/ended

    I seen the big Doctor G and I either have damaged intercostal muscle or damaged a rib, it's sore to touch on a specific spot on rib and sleeping has been as issue. I'm full sure I damaged it last week doing incline bench , a combination of lifting more than I can handle and poor form , specifically I think loading the weight too far behind head. Anyways I don't have a time machine so what's done is done and lesson learned for future.

    It's one of them injuries where I can't do a hell of alot I'm reluctant at the moment to even squat , I'll try some paused bodyweight squats over the weekend and if pain free slowly start with just the bar then add weight we long as pain free.

    I've signed up to a 4 week ftp booster training block on Zwift to keep me occupied. I can cycle pain free.

    So there's only 2 weeks left in plan- Week 11 been 3 rep max test and no T3's and Week 12 been just a 1 rep max rest with no T2 or T3's , I think is best to probably finish the plan here coming back in a week or 2 and testing 3 and 1 rep max seems a bit intense straight after an injury ?

    Program results
    Am I jacked and tanned ?
    No :( , well I'm not tanned and I asked the wife do I looked jacked she glanced up from her phone for half a milli second and says " I dunno you look same " !

    Weight and measurements
    Starting weight 78kg - finishing at 77kg , I expected a bigger weight increase tbh considering I started supplementing with creatine as well .
    I took some starting measurements .
    Chest size has increased by 14mm
    Upper arm increased by 6mm
    Upper thigh increased by 42mm ? I'm not sure if that's a measurement error.
    I didn't measure my shoulders prior but it's most noticeable area for me I seem to have more definition and wider around shoulders , I certainly notice tee shirts / shirts are tighter in this area.

    Rep max
    Didn't get to test again for 1 rep max so I'll include week 6 1 rep max and estimated 1 rep max based on most recent 5 rep max .

    Starting 1 rep max - week 6 1 rep max - estimate 1 rep max
    Bench 72.5kg - 77.5kg - (70x5 est 79kg)
    Deadlift 140kg - 150kg - (140 X 5 est 158kg)
    OHP 53kg - 55kg - ( 50 X 5 est 57kg)
    Squat 115kg - I totally changed my squat from 1/4 squat to full depth squats , my 1 rep max is 90kg didn't test week 10.

    So your probably looking at in and around 10% as a fair estimate assuming added to the main lifts ( squat excluded ) . I think that's a fairly good result considering I had been doing GZCLP for a few months beforehand and had plateaued on the lifts 50 and 70 for ohp and bench had been lifts I would only usually lift on a good day now are 5 rep max so definitely improvement there .

    Conclusion
    Really enjoyable plan I especially like that you are not specified a T1 weight to lift but a rep max for the day , the big drawback of the last program was you had to do a specific weight and if you failed you came back a week later and did lighter . I missed loads of sessions and mentally it was tough to train knowing you had to lift X before you started .
    Your probably not going to get jacked unless you around on the hot sauce or are a 20 year old full of testosterone. In saying that I have received compliments on my physique but this is not a factor or decision to doing this program my goal is to add muscle mass to this aging body so I don't end up frail from years of running and I'm achieving that .

    Thanks for all the input and tips it's all been invaluable actually feel like I know what I'm doing now .
    Sorry for the drawn out post the log started as a way to get some input from others but ended up a mini diary for myself and very helpful to go back and read how a session went . The strong app is good it will show you lifted 70 X 4 but then you read back the log and see that you really couldn't get that 4th one clean and you lost form etc so next time you do 70 X 4 and it is no problem its progress but not progress an app can show .

    I'll target 1st of June for Jacked and tanned rerun .


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,598 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    You're a lot stronger than when you started and that will serve you well, regardless of whether people notice your physique or not.

    I find my own log is a good record to revert to because I have the context of how I felt doing them etc so it's a good record to have that I wouldn't have with just numbers.

    Hope the injury heals up and you can get back to building on the foundation


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    new2tri19 wrote: »

    Weight and measurements
    Starting weight 78kg - finishing at 77kg , I expected a bigger weight increase tbh considering I started supplementing with creatine as well .
    .


    Should that be 87kg as the ending weight?


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Patsy167 wrote: »
    Should that be 87kg as the ending weight?

    No unfortunately I didn't gain weight I lost 1kg , i had been watching calories for about a month before starting program and was tracking 2250 per day and losing weight . That was to counteract a dirty bulk I originally undertook .
    When I started this plan I allowed myself to go untracked but with an idea of what 2250 eating was I are the same things but bigger portions and an extra protein hit , always getting 150g of protein a day , 3g of creatine and around 2750-3000 calories a day . But I still lost weight I think I had some kind of body recomposition as Im less soft around middle .


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,799 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    God I hope it wasn’t the abwheel challenge that hurt you!!
    Good thing summer is coming. Suns out......Biceps 7 days a week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    God I hope it wasn’t the abwheel challenge that hurt you!!
    Good thing summer is coming. Suns out......Biceps 7 days a week.

    Nah not abwheel :D
    I took the bike outside today not much sun :( but I think I can push more power than before I'm putting that down to the lifting , endurance is not as good but top end power is great .


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Active recovery session 1

    Pain is gone down a touch , slept well and bike session was comfortable. I noticed though I'm fairly stiff moving about . I'm a huge believer in getting blood flow to the injured area as a way of healing. I think if you sit about too much you can get stiff and tight. So i decided to hit the shed for some active recovery.

    concentration curls
    Didn't want to move the body too much so this seemed ideal kneeling beside bench with elbow on end of bench.
    7.5kg dumbells 4 sets of 15

    tricep extension
    Did these lying on incline bench with shoulders raised bracing core so ribs stayed in position holding the side of a 12.5kg dB for 4 sets of 15

    seated ohp
    Very light and bench at slight incline so ribs didn't feel so stacked with weight .
    7.5kg X 4 X 15

    bent over one are row
    7.5kg X 4 x15

    chest fly - legs up - dumbells
    Found it I put legs up it helped keep back down flat and torso solid 7.5 X 4 X 15

    Repeated the whole session then again for a nice hour worth of lifting , I missed lifting amazing how I never lifted before now I wonder how people survive day to day without training weights

    Feel so much better after that pain gone from a 8 to a 5/10 and surprised how much I could get done pain free.
    Back on bike later and I'll attempt some squats tomorrow .


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,799 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979




  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    I'm not sure I've ever mentioned this here but one of the main reasons I train weights now is because I can see the effect of not training weight in my everyday life. My father was into cycling and walking when he was younger . As he aged he kept up the walking did lots , didn't have a huge appetite and was always thin . At 65 now he can barely walk up a flight of stairs , very frail and he's had some other issues lately that are harder to heal because the doctor/ surgeon say he is too weak physically and should start swimming /Pilates etc.

    Anyways that's what keeps me going I don't want to be like that it's horrible , life passes by quick and one day you'll be thankful of the things you did in your 30:s or 40's that hopefully let you enjoy your retirement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Dtp1979 wrote: »

    Thanks Dtp started watching that looks good going to save it for the bike later watch the rest . They have lots of interesting videos good find 👍


  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Active recovery day 2 of xx
    Time to try some squatting . I'll stop if any pain

    Bodyweight fine
    20 X 10 belt on
    30 X 10 remove belt as it's causing slight discomfort.
    40 X 10 , 50 X 10 , 60 X 8, 70 X 6 , 75 X 4 , 80 X 2 , 85 X 2 , 90 X 2
    Then did the whole thing again back down as a pyramid.

    90 is my one max and 2 rep max . When I loaded on my back today I felt the fear I felt before temporarily. I remember what ALF said about don't think about failing , I've just lifted 85 and I'm doing all these really slow slight pause at bottom as I stretch between the hips . I load the bar back on the rack and remove the safety sawhorses I had set up . I complete 2 X 90 easily and do another set of 2 X 90 no bother and work back down the pyramid without safetys .

    My squat is getting so much better , it's the little things that help .
    Completed in 35 mins , I'm not going to bench or ohp for another week at least , I might try some empty bar deadlifts tomorrow and some row work .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,799 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    I’m looking forward to seeing you break through the 100


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