Can't put weights down ! Fitter at 40?

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

Thanks some good points , in regards this point If I keep lifting heavier on right arm I suppose the balance would never even out.
So for say a 10 rep max would I better doing weak arm first and use same weight on strong side even though it wouldn't be a true 10 rep max on stronger side but your allowing other side to catch up ?

Yep. If your left arm is the limiting factor, work on bringing it back up so base your rep maxes on the single arm/leg stuff on the weaker side.


Sometimes it's not that the primary movers are the once that make one side seem weaker. It might be a lack of stability around that that means those muscles give in sooner.


To give an example, in some exercises, my left and right side seemed even. Leg extension, hamstring curl...both on a par. But then when I did step ups onto a higher box, you could see there was some instability on the left side stemming from my hip. so the step ups helped work those stabilisers more and that instability improved. The issue wasn't necessarily the leg muscles you think are the primary muscles being worked.

new2tri19

Thanks man that makes sense, felt intuitively wrong lifting heavier on one side glad you cleared that up for me. I'll also have a look at what assistance muscles are in the lift.

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

Thanks man that makes sense, felt intuitively wrong lifting heavier on one side glad you cleared that up for me. I'll also have a look at what assistance muscles are in the lift.

It's very hard to self-diagnose the issue. Just let the weaker side be the determinant of your progression because then you're less likely to overload it when that might be an injury risk.

new2tri19

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's very hard to self-diagnose the issue. Just let the weaker side be the determinant of your progression because then you're less likely to overload it when that might be an injury risk.

Yeah true just remembering now when I used to practice single arm swimming drills my left side was so weak compared to my right there was a difference of about 5-10 seconds over 100m. Constant practice on the weak side eventually levelled them up and it was beneficial to my swim overall so guess it's similar .

Dtp1979

I see you do upright rows. I’ve heard nothing but bad things about the shoulder damage they cause

new2tri19

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I see you do upright rows. I’ve heard nothing but bad things about the shoulder damage they cause

Thanks man I'll drop them , to be honest I've no clue what to be doing . I kinda make it up as I go along , I'm sure I'll look back and say that was awful training.

Dumbells will open up alot of possibilities for me. I've not had an injury yet but occasionally feel a twinge in my shoulder if anything is going to go I'm pretty sure it be the shoulder .

It seems like you need to keep the body guessing so progressively overloading the same exercises week in week out indefinitely is not ideal either so this weight lifting game is complicated .

My T2b exercises each day are back exercises so I've
Close grip chest supported row and wide grip .
Lat pulldown
Seated row
Pull ups
Upright row .
Not sure if I'm targetting my whole back there taking out upright row would alternating them exercises cover back muscles ? Thanks

PCeeeee

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Couple of things to bear in mind:

1) On OHP, I haven't seen the video but I wouldn't assume you're wrong. In an ideal world, you keep the wrist and arm relatively straight but with the bar in your hands the wrists won't be perfectly forward and they shouldn't really be parallel to ceiling either.

I'm not going to give any advice because I'm in any way qualified to do so. But I would suggest on OHP to have a look at where you position the bar in your grip. Closer to the heel of your palm or closer to the fingers. It really affects your wrist angle. Also experiment with the bar at an angle across the hand. This also allows you to find a grip that doesn't tilt your wrist off vertical. Which as I understand it is less optimal.

Alf Veedersane

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I see you do upright rows. I’ve heard nothing but bad things about the shoulder damage they cause

It's not that it's bad in and of itself...just that the potential for injury is higher and people typically perform them in a way that increases that ris of shoulder impingement

Alf Veedersane

PCeeeee wrote: »

I'm not going to give any advice because I'm in any way qualified to do so. But I would suggest on OHP to have a look at where you position the bar in your grip. Closer to the heel of your palm or closer to the fingers. It really affects your wrist angle. Also experiment with the bar at an angle across the hand. This also allows you to find a grip that doesn't tilt your wrist off vertical. Which as I understand it is less optimal.

Yep. Some wrist extenson is unavoidable and your palms won't be facing the opposite wall exactly. But there's a degree past which it's not only leaking power but creating a potential injury risk if it's in extension for OHP all the time.

new2tri19

So I noticed this guy lifted like this and assumed it was the right way to lift.

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

So I noticed this guy lifted like this and assumed it was the right way to lift.

Yeah...I don't think you'd find a knowledgeable coach (as opposed to me) who would use that picture as a guide on how to set up....that that degree of wrist extension is optimal

ETA: explanation here:

https://barbend.com/overhead-press-mistakes-fixes/amp/

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

It seems like you need to keep the body guessing so progressively overloading the same exercises week in week out indefinitely is not ideal either so this weight lifting game is complicated .

You don't need to keep your body guessing. It's like once upon a time someone made a point about changing the stimulus rather than doing the same thing over and over...and someone ran with it and did a Chinese whispers job on it.

Progressive overload is changing the stimulus.

Changing exercises serves a couple of purposes. It addresses specific elements of lifts that need to be worked on. And it's also a change mentally. Just freshens things up a little.

But chopping and changing exercises for the sake of it isn't really the way to go.

new2tri19

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You don't need to keep your body guessing. It's like once upon a time someone made a point about changing the stimulus rather than doing the same thing over and over...and someone ran with it and did a Chinese whispers job on it.

Progressive overload is changing the stimulus.

Changing exercises serves a couple of purposes. It addresses specific elements of lifts that need to be worked on. And it's also a change mentally. Just freshens things up a little.

But chopping and changing exercises for the sake of it isn't really the way to go.

Theres alot of bro science around weightlifting it seems more than anything else in fitness. Thats very helpful information especially as I don't fancy coming up with new exercises for each time I run a plan.

A change of plan can have same effect I was getting stale on gzclp and especially having to lift a new pb each time you went at it many times id talk myself out of attempted a workout because didn't feel I had it in me. This plan is much better in that your max is your max on the night and thats it it's not specified.

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

Theres alot of bro science around weightlifting it seems more than anything else in fitness. Thats very helpful information especially as I don't fancy coming up with new exercises for each time I run a plan.

A change of plan can have same effect I was getting stale on gzclp and especially having to lift a new pb each time you went at it many times id talk myself out of attempted a workout because didn't feel I had it in me. This plan is much better in that your max is your max on the night and thats it it's not specified.

And that's the thing...your performance will sometimes be plus or minus on the average so programmes that have that built into it are becoming more popular.

In what I do, the exercises will be the same for a 4-week block and then some will change for the next one. But even within each 4-week block, there's a variation in what you're doing. Keeping what you would know as T2 and T3 the same across the block as well because it allows you to see some degree of progression (or not) across the block and you can see if you want to change or give it another 4 weeks.

But everything has a purpose that rolls back up to the T1 movements (which, for me, are squat, bench and deadlift).

Not that what I do is what everyone should do exactly but just explaining the outline a bit (its put together by someone else for me)

coffee_cake

new2tri19 wrote: »

Theres alot of bro science around weightlifting it seems more than anything else in fitness. Thats very helpful information especially as I don't fancy coming up with new exercises for each time I run a plan.

A change of plan can have same effect I was getting stale on gzclp and especially having to lift a new pb each time you went at it many times id talk myself out of attempted a workout because didn't feel I had it in me. This plan is much better in that your max is your max on the night and thats it it's not specified.

Yeah coach has me doing a lot of RPE based stuff which is good for allowing how you feel that day

new2tri19

Week 3 Day 4 Squat

Saturday 27th
T1 squat
find 6 rep max and 3 working sets of 68.5kg

New squat shoes so I was happy to have more stability for these big difference compared to runners.
Long warm up of just the bar and then gradually building up , watched an Alan Thrall video on squat beforehand to remember the points.

20 X 20
30 X 10
40 X 10
50 x 8
60 X 4
70 X 2
75 X 6 for 6 rep max attempt .
3 working sets of 68.5 X 4/4/9*amrap

Happy with these took a while but was really working on the correct movement and breathing getting deep below parallel and driving up .

T2a Deficit deadlifts
4 sets of 6 at 92.5kg

I like deadlifting just something about it I like . T2a exercises are generally easy but when I reached down and grabbed the bar these felt heavy enough that I knew this be more like a 7/10 effort.
Nice controlled efforts off 2 mins and 2-3 inch platform.

T2b close grip chest supported row
find 10 rep max and 3 more mrs

48.5kg for last weeks 12 rep max
40 X 10
45 X 6 feeling very light
50 X 5 feels like too light for 10
55kg X 10 then 8/7/6 off 45-60 seconds

T2c Bulgarian split squats
find 10 rep max and 3 more mrs

Some warm up then 1 increment up from last week
35 X 10/9/7/7 left side
35 X 10//7/7/6 right side

T3a assisted pull up
Find 16 rep max and 3 more mrs

So yeah starting to hate pull ups for a T2-T3 exercise, did 16 with band assistance and then 8 on second attempt off 45 seconds the drop off is huge on this exercise .
Then as I jumped up on my bar for 3rd set i managed to pull bar off wall on one side , so will fix later .
Dropped and did 20 press ups and did another 14 off 30 seconds .

T3b leg extensions with band
find 16 rep max then 3 more mrs

Heavier band than last week 16/15/14/14 and 16/15/13/13 for opposite leg.

T3c Hammer curls
find 16 rep max and 3 more mrs

I've to bench tomorrow so didnt want to do tricep work today so just some hammer curls with band .
16/16/14/10 .... 16 probably wasn't max rep but was close enough to not add more bands hence getting 16 again for 2nd rep . All off 30 seconds .

Completed 1 hour 18mins
Positives ,squat feels much more controlled and consistent and I had a bit more energy today eating more 2500cals now I think helps .
Negatives , my pull ups are weak especially after first set I see a huge drop off on max rep sets .

Alf Veedersane

Pull up is one of those exercises where there is going to be a big drop off of you have only a short rest after a max set.

new2tri19

Week 4 Day 1 Bench
Sunday 28th
Weeks going by quickly . Late to shed 10.30pm by time kids settled with the extra hour so decide to leave core exercises till Monday as I can do them around minding kids working etc.

T1 Bench
find 4 rep max and 3 working sets of 55kg

Last week 6 rep max was 62.5 so I'm thinking Minimum 65kg to be progressing.
Warm ups
Then
60 X 5
65 X 5 was too easy for 4 rep max
67.5 X 4 very controlled last rep was hard ... I really want to beat 72.5kg 1 rep max in a couple of weeks and calculator gives me tentative estimates of 74kg off this . Happy .
55kg X 3/3/9* amrap I struggle to see the benefit of these they are so light but then I got thinking that maybe you know I lost so light anyway that the scaling factor of lifts doesn't work like it's supposed to , kinda like a newbie runner that runs 6 min per km been told to run 10 min per km and basically they are walking . Anyway overthinking it .

T2a close grip bench
5 sets of 4 at 45kg

I've seen people on Reddit complain that this is programmed too light and they increased it when running plan again I will do similar . I done these off 30 seconds rest it was too light to be productive surely .

T2b chest supported wide grip row
find 8 rep max and 3 more mrs

45kg X 8
50 X 6 too light
60 X 5 ambitious attempt at 8 rep max failed
55 X 8 /7/6/7 off 45-60 seconds

T2c Chest dips
find 8 rep max and 3 more mrs

I don't have a dip attachment I do them with 1 arm holding onto the barbell racked and the other on a high back chair . It can be awkward as the barbell turns as you dip so you need to keep really solid on way down and back to stop it rotating .
Warm up
10 body weight dips
15kg added to belt
15 X 8/6/6/4 short rest is tough on these I only give myself 30 seconds to be back in place .

T3a skullcrushers
find 14 rep max then 3 mrs

20 X 10
27.5kg X 14/10/6/5 these see a huge drop off also , 45 seconds between each .

T3b barbell curls
find 14 rep max then 3 mrs

30kg X 14/11/8/6 back to wall to keep it honest 45 seconds rest .

Completed 1 hour and change, nice short workout .

Positives - got it done despite been late and bench looking good for a new pb in a couple of weeks.

Negatives - not much , need a dip station which will mean moving away from squat stands and adding a half rack or a full rack, squat stands are working fine for everything though so no rush yet to upgrade .

Today - core workout and some ab rollouts attempts .1 hour zwift workout .

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

T1 Bench
find 4 rep max and 3 working sets of 55kg

Last week 6 rep max was 62.5 so I'm thinking Minimum 65kg to be progressing.
Warm ups
Then
60 X 5
65 X 5 was too easy for 4 rep max
67.5 X 4 very controlled last rep was hard ... I really want to beat 72.5kg 1 rep max in a couple of weeks and calculator gives me tentative estimates of 74kg off this . Happy .

Just be careful with this thinking. Otherwise you're disregarding the principle behind finding the rep max in the first place by setting a target.


Just work up in sets of 4 and gauge it. I'm not sure why you did a set of 5 with 65kg when you're looking for a 4RM in the ballpark of 65kg. You possibly made that last rep on 67.5kg more difficult by emptying the tank more than you should have with 65kg. Just bear that in mind. You're getting the volume in after that.


As regards the close grip being light, it might just be. 45kg is about 61% of your projected max and 5 x 4 seems light if no scope for an max rep set for set 5. I'd have thought 52.5/55 would be fine (that would be ~ 80% of max close grip if you assume max close grip would be 90% of normal bench - that varies for people but just for simplicity)

new2tri19

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Just be careful with this thinking. Otherwise you're disregarding the principle behind finding the rep max in the first place by setting a target.


Just work up in sets of 4 and gauge it. I'm not sure why you did a set of 5 with 65kg when you're looking for a 4RM in the ballpark of 65kg. You possibly made that last rep on 67.5kg more difficult by emptying the tank more than you should have with 65kg. Just bear that in mind. You're getting the volume in after that.


As regards the close grip being light, it might just be. 45kg is about 61% of your projected max and 5 x 4 seems light if no scope for an max rep set for set 5. I'd have thought 52.5/55 would be fine (that would be ~ 80% of max close grip if you assume max close grip would be 90% of normal bench - that varies for people but just for simplicity)

I get you totally , half of the problem is I am not that great yet at judging what a max rep set will be , but for sure the other half of the problem is I'm a competitive f**k that doesn't want like regressing so I'm aware of what I lifted last week . Need to get out of this mindset it will hold me back. Thanks for pointing this out.

You know I did this workout last night and wrote it out here this morning on checking the strong app I was thinking the same why did I lift 65 X 5 before my max rep set I've no idea really it was a mistake .

Yeah on the spreadsheet for this plan your T2a on bench day is either close grip bench or legs up bench and it's programmed too light for sure , I'll increase it next week then alter the sheet for the next run.

Thanks for your input , my weakness is numbers whether it's swimming , cycling or running I can get obsessed with trying to best my lap times in pool , power on bike or running speed. Need to not bring that to weights also.

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

I get you totally , half of the problem is I am not that great yet at judging what a max rep set will be , but for sure the other half of the problem is I'm a competitive f**k that doesn't want like regressing so I'm aware of what I lifted last week . Need to get out of this mindset it will hold me back. Thanks for pointing this out.

You know I did this workout last night and wrote it out here this morning on checking the strong app I was thinking the same why did I lift 65 X 5 before my max rep set I've no idea really it was a mistake .

Yeah on the spreadsheet for this plan your T2a on bench day is either close grip bench or legs up bench and it's programmed too light for sure , I'll increase it next week then alter the sheet for the next run.

Thanks for your input , my weakness is numbers whether it's swimming , cycling or running I can get obsessed with trying to best my lap times in pool , power on bike or running speed. Need to not bring that to weights also.

I can certainly appreciate all of that. I definitely had a tendency to tell myself I was just going with how it felt on the day but actually pushing a bit harder to hit what I thought I should be hitting, which goes against what I should have been doing.
Just be mindful of it. Go with the numbers on the day. You thought that 65 today would mean progress. Some days you just don't feel great and you can wind up with 62.5 which seems like a disappointment but you'll just have days like that. Other days, you'll feel great and it goes better than you anticipate. Just roll with how it feels while doing it to the best you can on that day.

new2tri19

Week 4 Day 2 Deadlift
Sunday 30th March .

T1 Deadlift
find 4 rep max then 3 working sets of 107.5kg

Well another late night this clock change means I'm getting kids to bed later so me time is cutting down , didn't get to shed till after 10pm.
Loading the bar up thinking there's something about Deadlift standing over the bar looking at feeling vulnerability. Similar with breaking at hips with a heavy barbell on your back. There's a certain fear and vulnerability that everyone should experience , reminds me of the vulnerability i feel when I'm in the ocean swimming.
Anyway ..

Last week 120 X 6
Warm up .
70 X 5
80 X 5
100 X 2 .. this is getting heavy
120 X 1 .. this is hard took 3 mins walking around bar looking at it with 130 on it before going at it .
130 X 4 ... Very hard , initial pull from shin to knee is always the hardest for me , 4th one was definitely my max and it took a few seconds to stand up straight on that one. Feeling very happy with that set.

3 working sets of 107.5 for 3/3/5* amrap they where good honest sets not too easy .

T2a Front squat
5 sets of 4 @65kg

I'm very happy with these nice depth and no shoulder pain from bar resting on shoulders felt like I had it in the right position .

Sets went really well.

T2b landmine t bar row
find 8 rep max and 3 more mrs

I don't have a t bar so wrapped a towel around bar and had my homemade landmine attachment. I normally do chest supported rows but had planned to move to these . When I got the barbell first I tried and felt like my back was caving I didn't really have the strength core or back to brave and do rows . What a difference now I felt solid doing these and the back felt tight and stable .

Warm up
20 X 10
40 X 8
50 X 5 still feels light
70 X 8 after the first 2 I was thinking should of gone with 60kg but just got the 8th rep in at 70kg definitely a honest 8 rep max . 3 more max rep sets of 6/5/5 off 45 seconds.

T2c Hip thrust
find 8 rep max and 3 more mrs

I did 60 for 10 last week so went 70, these felt much easier because I had new squat shoes and the grips meant I didn't slip I was too lazy to add more weight I just lay under the bar between reps end up doing 70 X 8/8/8/8 not what I should be doing . Off 45 seconds .

T3a plate front raises
find 14 rep max and 3 more mrs

Did 15kg and was about perfect 15 X 14/11/8/7

Completed in an hour , it was after 11pm so decided to stop fresh in my mind that dropping some T3's is not really bad.

Positives - I was saying to wife my back has never been better since I started lifting I used to get niggles now I feel solid . Overall I feel my posture has improved also. Lifting is a game changer .

Negatives - not much , I'm a bit lazy when I set up the hip thrust bit of faffing about with yoga mat on hips then too lazy to get out from under bar and up the weight when it was too light .

Have relaxed on the calories counting and feel more energy I am roughly at 2500 a day at 5'11 and 77.2kg as of today .

1 hour bike today and maybe some ab work .

Alf Veedersane

The biggest thing I've had to learn on deadlift is that you should lift your warm ups like your max and your max like your warm-ups.

There shouldn't be doubt. It's like that Henry Ford quote: "Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right".

You should never approach the bar with doubt. It shouldn't be a case of "can I?" but "let's make this look easy".

Sometimes walking around trying to psyche yourself up has the opposite effect. Approach the bar with the same set up, at the same speed as every set before.

This is one of the big things I've had to work on so I spotted it like a big flag

new2tri19

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The biggest thing I've had to learn on deadlift is that you should lift your warm ups like your max and your max like your warm-ups.

There shouldn't be doubt. It's like that Henry Ford quote: "Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right".

You should never approach the bar with doubt. It shouldn't be a case of "can I?" but "let's make this look easy".

Sometimes walking around trying to psyche yourself up has the opposite effect. Approach the bar with the same set up, at the same speed as every set before.

This is one of the big things I've had to work on so I spotted it like a big flag

Yeah totally get you , I was looking at it thinking how many more times can I look at this 130kg bar without actually lifting it ok I'll go at the start of this next tune i need to have a 90's club classic in my headphones , boom within a few seconds it's all over and I'm elated big chest pump , log it on my strong app then deload the bar to 107.5kg , didn't give the first lift the respect it deserved and end up thinking these are harder than they should be so 100% get you treat all the reps the same .

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

Yeah totally get you , I was looking at it thinking how many more times can I look at this 130kg bar without actually lifting it ok I'll go at the start of this next tune i need to have a 90's club classic in my headphones , boom within a few seconds it's all over and I'm elated big chest pump , log it on my strong app then deload the bar to 107.5kg , didn't give the first lift the respect it deserved and end up thinking these are harder than they should be so 100% get you treat all the reps the same .

It's about intent as well. Don't just go through the motions with warm ups. Lift with the intensity and force you would if you were lifting the max. The bar will fly.


Treat them all the same and approach them all the same. You know 60kg is coming up, you know 80kg is coming up...you should know your max is coming up so don't overthink it. Just set up and lift it like all the rest. No more, no less.

new2tri19

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's about intent as well. Don't just go through the motions with warm ups. Lift with the intensity and force you would if you were lifting the max. The bar will fly.


Treat them all the same and approach them all the same. You know 60kg is coming up, you know 80kg is coming up...you should know your max is coming up so don't overthink it. Just set up and lift it like all the rest. No more, no less.

Yeah I'm going try .... I'm saying try because although this seems like an easy change , the hardest alterations to make are those of the mind in my experience
I didnt chalk the hands or put the belt on till 130 I'll belt up and chalk up from start next time and give that 60kg warm up the same respect as the 130 or 140 for 2 next week :eek: I mean easy .
It be almost better if you didn't know what weight your lifting you can talk yourself out of a lift before you approach it .

I think I'll paint on my shed wall - ALL REPS ARE EQUAL

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

Yeah I'm going try .... I'm saying try because although this seems like an easy change , the hardest alterations to make are those of the mind in my experience
I didnt chalk the hands or put the belt on till 130 I'll belt up and chalk up from start next time and give that 60kg warm up the same respect as the 130 or 140 for 2 next week :eek: I mean easy .
It be almost better if you didn't know what weight your lifting you can talk yourself out of a lift before you approach it .

I think I'll paint on my shed wall - ALL REPS ARE EQUAL

Believe me, I know how hard it is. I found it hard to change. I think it was after a particular comp that it got in my head and took a long time to address. Maybe because I hadn't seen what the issue was but either way it's like a soft chair: easy to get into and hard to get out of.

That's why I said it. I don't want to be commenting the whole time after every session like I seem to be but just the mental changes...the sooner you address it the better.

new2tri19

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Believe me, I know how hard it is. I found it hard to change. I think it was after a particular comp that it got in my head and took a long time to address. Maybe because I hadn't seen what the issue was but either way it's like a soft chair: easy to get into and hard to get out of.

That's why I said it. I don't want to be commenting the whole time after every session like I seem to be but just the mental changes...the sooner you address it the better.

I appreciate the comments I've read some of your log interesting reading and congrats on competing at weight lifting . The main motivation for starting a log was to hopefully get some feedback on my lifting . If I can learn from other people's mistakes I can get there twice as fast .

The biggest limitation to anything is the brain I used to have an issue breaking 20 mins for 5km when I was running a little while , then once I broke it I could always break it and broke 19mins not long after.

I'll be going at 140 next week with a different mindset no lollygagging just get up about that !
Thanks 👍

Alf Veedersane

Anyone can do a competition. If you're going to try and set a PR, what better way to do it than on a platform in front of a room full of supportive people

coffee_cake

Competitions are for everyone