Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122177531#Comment_122177531

The Toulouse half-backs will also play the full 80 barring injury.

Ramos will come on at 60/65 , but he'll come on for Kinghorn.

Grau won't get near the pitch unless there's an injury to Dupont

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122177723#Comment_122177723

I'd agree but with the one difference that, as you point out, Ramos will come on. So will Chocobares. I don't think either of our backs are coming on without an injury.

There's a huge amount riding on nobody getting injured in the backs for us tomorrow, I reckon. We're all in on winning this game up front.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122177809#Comment_122177809

Agreed. I heard a question being asked after the SF if the reason JGP resorted to the box-kicking was down to game plan and expected, or was it because he plays at such a blistering high-tempo that it's difficult to sustain across the 80.

No more than Dupont, he'll be pretty integral for Leinster to come away with a win tomorrow.

Lord Palmerston

Cian Healy playing in his 8th European Cup Final tomorrow is pretty incredible. He also played in the Challenge Cup Final in 2013 too.

Only Toulouse as a club (and Leinster obviously) have played in as many finals as Cian Healy, with Cian having 2x as many finals as the next closest team Saracens.

Can't see some of those records ever being broken.

pickarooney

Cian, tomorrow, hopefully

Pete_Cavan

That bench leaves Leinster very exposed to things going wrong if there is an injury, someone having a bad day or things just not clicking in the backs. McGrath just not good enough and Frawley likely has to stay on the bench until the 75th minute in case of a injury.

The coaches have left themselves open to serious questions if they don't win. They have the edge in the pack even with 5 forwards on the bench.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178477#Comment_122178477

That's what I don't get. Against this opposition I'm not even sure 50 minutes of Connors and 30 minutes of van der Flier is better than 80 minutes of van der Flier even without factoring in that you get Jimmy O'Brien into the XXIII with the second scenario. Van der Flier is like the Energizer Bunny. He just keeps going and going. He comes across as a student of the game, so he'd be well able to implement whatever techniques Nienaber wants from the openside flanker.

But fingers crossed everything works out and we're hailing a Nienaber masterclass 25 hours from now.

johnh6767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178477#Comment_122178477

that’s rediculous to be frank, they’re playing Toulouse in the final , they are playing their best hand of cards and hopefully it will be an exciting and close match. The tone of ‘if they don’t win the coaches screwed this up’ is nuts. They are with the players day in day out and can assess who best to be on the pitch better than us fans / armchair pundits. They understand the competition better than we do, they are living this 24/7. 2 of the best teams playing in a European final may the best side win , we’re privileged let’s enjoy the moment

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178601#Comment_122178601

Yeah, without a doubt. But it's also fair to say that Leo losing another final is a bad look given the resources Leinster have.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178865#Comment_122178865

Have you seen the resources at Toulouse and La Rochelle?

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178899#Comment_122178899

Yeah, they compare to Leinster. The bones of the best international team in the world on and off for the last 5 or more years. Lets not kid ourselves. I don't think it's controversial to say Leinster should have another star or two given the resources they have, but I won't be continuing with his beyond this comment, Ive been saying the same thing for years here.

johnh6767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178899#Comment_122178899

ah balanced perspective at last , that’s exactly the point, sometimes it seems there is this view that Leinster has an unrivalled access to European rugby talent , it’s a competitive arena and Leinster are up with the best of them but they ain’t by themselves

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178601#Comment_122178601

Being with the players day in day out is one thing but they are largely banking on the entire backline playing almost the whole game. JGP is so much better than his backup (that's not really on the coaches tbf) and one player covering 10 - 15 is very risky and even more so if you want/need to spring him early. Against one of the best backlines out there, it is undoubtedly fraught with danger.

At least with Frawley and JOB on the bench, you assess how things are going and roll the dice during the game. There are a lot of variables and you can get bitten very easily and best laid plans go out the window. I just don't see the logic in limiting yourself in this way. If it doesn't go their way, questions will rightfully be asked.

hold my beer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178601#Comment_122178601

Jesus I can't wait till tomorrow. London is buzzing, loadsa Leinster and Toulouse coulours about

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178993#Comment_122178993

Im not sure why you think Leinster should automatically have another star? fact is over the years plenty of excellent teams have won Europe, including Leinster.

To think Leinster should automatically win the trophy when other teams have shown their quality is a bit big headed, looking at the La Rochelle and Toulouse team they are full of star players from all over the World and the majoirty are international players. The Sarries team which beat Leinster was the same. Wall to wall internationals.

If La Rochelle/Sarries/Toulouse had a problem area they had the spending capacity which allowed them to buy a player to resolve it, till next season that was not the case for Leinster, they used the academy and used it well.

Honestly go tell a Toulouse or La Rochelle fan that you think they should have another star and see how they respond?

johnh6767

there you go perspective from across the water

thebaz

Is Ringrose injured ?

Not a fan of the South African style 6 / 2 split, them winning WC with that style was not good for the sport

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179016#Comment_122179016

Precicely. Leinster are in the top tier of European rugby for almost 15 years. In that time Toulouse, toulon, sarries, La rochelle and Toulouse again, have come and gone from the top. Lainster has been there the whole time with exception of one year. That's an incredible record.

They don't win it every year but they're not set up for smash and grab on season and return to the middle of the pack 2 years later. They're set up to be top tier in the medium-long term. I'm absolutely fine with that. Whether they won last year's final or not was an incredibly fine margin. La Rochelle won it and fair play to them. Winning last year wouldn't change anything about the great season they had to get them to the last minute of the final. It came down to a few minutes of great play.

Here we are again in a final where anything can happen. Sometimes the opposition is just better on the day. That's sport.

Whatever else happens tomorrow, the team on the field and off will have given everything. That's what I love about rugby.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179144#Comment_122179144

6-2 bench isn't South African style. Has been in use by many teams from all over since introduction of 8 person benchs

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179062#Comment_122179062

More like telling a Clermont fan they should have more stars. La Rochelle have a 100% record in Euro finals. It's hardly arrogant to think that a team who's lost their last three could and should have won at least one.

pickarooney

7-1 is SA style

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179283#Comment_122179283

Could of lost the last 4, bounce of the ball v Racing and it could of went the other way, only the Sarries match it got away from Leinster and even in that situation, control before half time and a poor decision by Ringrose could have changed the entire game

Leinster is not entitled to win Europe, never have been and never will be

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179137#Comment_122179137

You should listen to the 42 podcast with the journalist from France, if you want to hear cocky he is it

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179283#Comment_122179283

La Rochelle lost their first Euro Cup Final to Toulouse in a pretty poor game during Covid. Levani Botia got an early-ish red.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179062#Comment_122179062

No one is saying they should “automatically” win. But there’s a very reasonable argument Leinster have underachieved in the last ~7-8 years or so in Europe. (LAR in that time frame obviously have 1 more star than Leinster, for example).

Hopefully they’ll improve it on that record tomorrow.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179486#Comment_122179486

No. They should play their heart out in all those finals and if they win, brilliant. If the opposition plays their heart out too, and wins, then fair play.

Same applies tomorrow

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179465#Comment_122179465

Oh right yeah, I thought that was the Top14 for some reason. Forget what I said then.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179521#Comment_122179521

I get that line of thinking, but all games aren’t 50/50.

I’d need to check but, as a proxy, I’d suggest Leinster were bookies favourites in (at least) 4 of the last 5 seasons in the knock-out games they lost.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179740#Comment_122179740

What's that got to do with the price of spuds? I think leinster were actually favourites for some of them. Blame the gamblers if they bet more heavily on leinster. If both teams play their best and leinster lose, then fair enough. That's sport.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179761#Comment_122179761

One of the teams has to be favourites, just because they are favourites means f**k all when the first ball is kicked

aloooof

Will leave it at this for the evening that’s in it, lads, but I think there’s a very reasonable argument Leinster have underachieved in Europe since Cullen has taken over, that I don’t think is even all that contentious.