Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

ulsteru20s

I think its lancaster too. But also, the talent that graduated from the academy in the last 3 years in the academy isn't at the same level as the 4 years before. That's not a knock. If that level was sustained it would be pretty unbelievable.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158766#Comment_122158766

Did they not get 5 points from the two games there last year with the C team?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159444#Comment_122159444

Yes. They beat the Lions with a bonus point and list 60-7 to the Bulls.

Is there any chance the second string guys know they'll never get into the first team on merit, so there's less motivation? Deegan knows he won't get ahead of Doris. Penny won't get ahead of VDF and Connors, no matter how well he plays.

There's a bit more genuine competition in the backs with Osborne and Jimmy and Tommy o Brien competing for centre and wing spots.

Former Former Former

Yeah, we got five points from one match in SA last year, and got absolutely massacred in the second, and those came just after we'd drawn at home with another SA team.

A couple of weeks later, a reasonably strong Leinster team failed to close out a winning position against a rival province, just like we did at the weekend.

The evidence that we were much better last season is patchy at best.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159595#Comment_122159595

Based on the teams I think Leinster expected to get something from the Lions game. I am basing this on the team selected and also having all the coach's available.

This time Leo stayed and the rest of the coaching team flew home, last year for the last game it was run by Seanie. So a little bit more interest this year but still I doubt they expected a win, maybe a losing bonus was possible.

That just my opinion, because they got nothing from the Lions game they are on the back foot, the Lions beating Glasgow kind of solved that but Leinster lost in Ulster which they expected to win so back to difficult to get top spot in league

LostArt

I've ended up with 2 spare final tickets, if anyone wants them for cost price drop me a PM

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159595#Comment_122159595

Yeah, we got five points from one match in SA last year, and got absolutely massacred in the second

Which is better than being massacred in two…

The evidence is not patchy. 5 reg season losses vs 1 is quite a stark difference and the NH performance in the SF was comfortably worse than any of our knockout wins last year. As well as the results being worse, I think they team just looks worse on the eyesight test. Some of this was likely unavoidable given the turnover in the coaching staff, but it's still clearly happening!

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160007#Comment_122160007

Fwiw, I think this is the respective URC comparison for the same stage last season:

	P	W	D	L	PF	PA	PD	TF	TA	TBP	LBP	Pts
2022/23	17	16	1	0	573	301	272	83	41	13	0	79
2023/24	17	12	0	5	521	343	178	76	42	10	2	60

All_in_Flynn

It's not even debatable we are at a lower ebb than last year. The Irish contingent alone were at a higher physical peak than they are currently.

The attack is just not as fluent as it was last year either. The way we are rucking has changed. It was always going to take time to bed this in but it's been better than I expected.

Not sure how we will go next week. I would back our pack against anyone though and I just hope we can keep a hold of Dupont.

AdamD

Leinster were always going to be impacted in a WC year, as we have been told repeatedly, the knocks outs will definite Leinster's season.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160007#Comment_122160007

In every one of those 5 losses Leinster rested a significant number of their starters. Why do posters keep pointing to matches when all the front liners weren't out there?

Fine if you're trying to make an argument for Leinster's back-ups not being as strong as a group as last year, but that has little to do with the knock-out rugby to come.

The first half of the SF this year Leinster were good, it was the second half where they appeared to turn off. They let a very good side that kept battling back into the match. The way people talk about it you'd swear they were dire for the whole game.

Exclamation Marc

Injury update is out and Keenan, Ryan and Connors are all good to go for the final.

Ringrose, TOB and Ngatai will be assessed but I'd say it's safe to say that Ringrose probably won't make it with no gametime.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161340#Comment_122161340

Exactly! Nail on the ceann! The depth is not as good. 5 losses is unheard of for Leinster. I'd also point to the fact that La Rochelle are fairly shyte.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161340#Comment_122161340

I don't think the back-ups are not as strong as last year, I think the coaching and preparation of them is not as good. I think the performances at home to Sale and Leicester were also decent but not great, so it's not like this is just something impacting the second string.

Also, turning off in the second half of a SF is not something that we should or have been doing. It is a worrying development.

I simply find the direction the team is going in worrying.

Exclamation Marc

I do agree that the squad depth is likely not where it was and there are a number of contributing factors - that has indeed contributed to a tricker league this year and perhaps a less robust second line.

That said, when it comes down to tournaments and leagues that have knock-outs at the end of the year, you can really only judge a team's performance based on how they fare in the knockouts. If Leinster go on to win the URC this year, nobody would say that we're not as good as a URC year when we lost 1 game in the regular season but got knocked out in the semi-final because we lost more games that year. The league is a marathon not a sprint. But its how we perform in the knockouts that will determine whether this year is a success or failure (for me). Does anyone think Munster fans care that much that they lost 7 URC games in 2022/23…I doubt it.

For reference, Toulouse have lost 8 of their 24 games in the Top 14 this year and nobody would claim they're having a bad year. And if they win the Top 14 and Champions Cup, nobody will care that much about the losses.

Context is everything.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161781#Comment_122161781

But its how we perform in the knockouts that will determine whether this year is a success or failure 

This is obviously true. But they haven't happened yet so we have no basis for discussion there, only hypotheticals and I'm concerned based on what we've seen so far this season.

Clegg

I'm not too concerned. There was always going to be a difficult transition period following Lancaster's departure.

It also wasn't helped that Leinster had a very turbulent pre-season period. We were missing over 20 players through injury and World Cup duties. We were also missing two senior coaches due to their own international commitments. Goodman was coaching Samoa until September and Nienaber didn't arrive until November.

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161807#Comment_122161807

Absolutely, and I completely agree.

Last year, I'd have been reasonably confident that if we had to dip into the second line of our depth chart, we'd largely be fine but the last few months have shown that the team will really need to step up in order to carry those second line players in key positions who are not performing. Notably the JGP-Ross pairing is probably our most fragile area on the pitch.

I've full faith in the first line, mind. Little to no concerns about them.

conquestscarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161705#Comment_122161705

We didn't turn up for the second half of a final the last two years. Didn't turn up for a semi in 2022 either.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161901#Comment_122161901

Funny but not true. We had huge issues with clearing our lines in two finals, a lot of which was down to Lowe - though neither scenario was his fault. Also losing Ryan.

The second half in the NH game was a tactical shift, which presumably came from the top, and a pretty awful one.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161923#Comment_122161923

What do people see as the team for the final?

Seems to be only about 4 real decisions - 6/2 or 5/3, Larmour or Jimmy O'Brien on the wing, start Jenkins or start Ryan and start Connors or start JVDF?

For me, I'd go with the following:

(15-9, 1-8):

Keenan, J O'Brien, Osborne, Henshaw, Lowe, R Byrne, Gibson-Park, Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Ryan, McCarthy, Baird, van der Flier, Doris.

Reps: Kelleher, Healy, Ala'alatoa, Jenkins, Conan, Foley, Frawley, Ringrose.

Completely understand why some would go different in certain positions, but this is the 23 I'd go for.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161940#Comment_122161940

I agree on 14 out of 15, I'd keep Larmour in the team and based on the assumption Ringrose isn't fit I'd go 5/3 with a SH (we all know it's McGrath), Frawley and JOB. I don't think we should do a 6/2, having to re-jig the entire backline in the case of an injury has disaster written all over it.

JOB was excellent against Ospreys and looked completely good to go so if he starts he starts, just think it would be very unfair on Larmour who has had a really good Euro campaing. Fairness probably doesn't come into it though.

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161940#Comment_122161940

Thats a pretty good team.

I'd likely spring for that team too albeit with Connors on the bench rather than Ringrose. That said I could see VDF on the bench as 23 and Connors at 7. Unless Ringrose has been banging out 80 minutes in behind closed doors matches, he's far too much of a risk on the bench for me.

If they go for a 5-3 split, Larmour could play 23 with the rest of your 16-22.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161957#Comment_122161957

Yeah, I just hate the 6-2 for the risks involved. Cost us the case on Saturday I think for example.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them continue to back Larmour, I just prefer JOB as a player. I included Foley over McGrath more out of hope than expectation.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161940#Comment_122161940

Would agree on the decisions. I'd be surprised if they don't go 6-2 - given JGP will go 80 unless injured putting Foley there makes a lot of sense in that scenario though I'm deeply skeptical they will do it. Personally would probably prefer a 5-3, but not super pushed. Don't think Ringrose will make it.

I think it will be:

Keenan, J O'Brien, Osborne, Henshaw, Lowe, R Byrne, Gibson-Park, Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Ryan, McCarthy, Baird, Connors, Doris.

Reps: Kelleher, Healy, Ala'alatoa, Jenkins, Conan, van der Flier, Foley/McGrath, Frawley.

pickarooney

Depends on whether we're looking to impose our game first or nullify theirs. I think the latter (with Connors starting and a 6-2 bench) could blow up in our faces against Toulouse, much as it did for them last year.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161705#Comment_122161705

Ditto

Dubinusa

I think Larmour will start. One good outing for JOB is not enough for me.

Foxtrol

The need for a 6-2 is somewhat mitigated with Ryan being able to go a full 80 last weekend. Whether he starts or comes on, there shouldnt be any concerns about his fitness.

The decision now is pretty much down to the game plan

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162218#Comment_122162218

I do think he's very obviously lacking fitness though (which is normally such a strength of his game). He was penalised at least once against Ulster for being slow to roll away, but could have been pinged on at least two other occasions too I thought. It's only natural, but I'd be skeptical of his ability to go 80 next week against Toulouse.

Issue with Jenkins-McCarthy pairing, for all the good it brings, is neither is a particularly great line out jumper at this stage, and Ryan Baird has to then call the line outs. With Sheehan throwing in, and Ryan in the team, or lineout is far better.