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Theoretical Cork Suburban/Commuter Lines

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭ sheff the ref


    Fair Comment

    However the broader future picture involves a need to find a way of getting a passenger from Cork/Kerry/Munster to Dublin airport at the easiest convenience

    Portmarnock is the closest station to Dublin Airport and there will be some form of light rail link to the Airport from there in time. Getting from Cork to Portmarnock on one journey for even limited services is surely something that can be worked into timetables

    The model of disembarking earlier in the journey to step onto commuter trains seems to the the solution, as it seems to be with Cobh/Midleton.

    As regards the Luas, it is not very user friendly at peak times for those who are travelling with heavy baggage



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    What light rail link is this between Portmarnock and Dublin airport?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    There was a plan for Clongriffin to the airport. It required 7 km of Dart line over open countryside at a cost of €200 or so million, but was opposed because the 'real solution' was Metro North and the 'interconnector'. Of course nothing happened.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,474 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    There was a kite flying exercise. It never got as far as being a plan



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  • Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭ sheff the ref


    I was commuting to Cork briefly for a short period a few years back and decided to do Park and Ride from Little Island into Kent Station as my destination was in the City. It was excellent to be fair. Great Service and no hassle with having to park etc. in the City.

    I came across this excellent February 2022 Dail discussion on the future of Rail upgrades:

    Joint Committee on Transport and Communications debate - Thursday, 17 Feb 2022 (oireachtas.ie)

    To be fair, they are committed to improvement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    It's an excellent service. I couldn't possibly be more positive about it. I use it whenever possible, usually from Glounthaune and Little Island.

    And in saying that, I don't think the platform swap in Little Island or Glounthaune are a good idea in the current station form.

    Of the two, Little Island is more viable, as you could change platform by going up the N25 slip road and back down the old road, and back into the station from the other side. Whereas putting in a new platform overbridge in Glounthaune is a much bigger effort.

    It should be interesting to see if they do go for that.

    Again, my overall point was only that I'd have thought an easy platform change would be important in Kent for the "through" services.



  • Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭ sheff the ref


    I came across this. One of the last passenger trains to Youghal in 1963

    It was notable that there were very few disembarking from the train, so it is easy to see why the train was discontinued.

    Would there be demand for a train to Youghal today, or is the Greenway the correct use for the track?

    https://www.rte.ie/archives/2018/0206/938738-cork-to-youghal-by-train/



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    This was discussed at length in another thread, possibly the thread relating to the Greenway.

    To re-state some of the points raised:

    Long distance between Midleton and Youghal: reasonably high cost line to deliver.

    No significant population centres in Mogeely, Killeagh (or even Youghal itself): reasonably low ridership.

    Some encroachment on the line: reasonably slow/legal effort to resolve.

    Greenway architecture is light and easy to deliver: no issues with reinstating the rail line in future if needed.


    My two cents: you could try to extend the line piecemeal by putting in a densely-zoned area and master plan in Mogeely, and extend to there first, but all the way to Youghal at once would not be good bang for buck right now. Better value to be had with East Cork commuter rail via new stations at Water Rock, Carrigtwohill West (IDA). Possibly if someone was being very adventurous and had lots of money to spend on East Cork rail, you could perhaps plan a P&R just East of the distillery, taking cars from both Dungourney and Castlemartyr directions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭ sheff the ref


    Personally I would feel that there is a future in a Luas Type transport, sharing space with a Greenway, not just Midleton-Youghal, but also Dungarvan-Waterford and the Midlands Greenway

    I guess there are other transit priorities for now though!!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    I don't agree with you based on the distances and population centres concerned.

    Definitely on - for instance - the Blackrock Passage greenway in Cork, sharing luas and Greenway makes sense but I think for the lesser density ones you mention then sharing space with the Greenway means the "luas" type system travels too slowly to be attractive to end users with long transit time between stops. For that slower "luas" type system I think you need more frequent stops. AKA a more urban area.

    I'm totally in favour of greenway and commuter rail sharing a corridor side-by-side though. Although I believe Irish Rail are not in favour of it, lest they be "hemmed in".



  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭ Risoc


    Re P+R, isn’t a station like Midleton P+R anyway? I presume you can park for free there all day if you’re getting to train to Cork for work or whatever?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    It is a P&R but it's not heavily used really, probably because of the location.

    With traffic, if you can drive to the Midleton P&R then you can normally afford to drive much further. You'd really like that Easternmost P&R to take in traffic from East Cork (Killeagh, Mogeely, Castlemartyr, Youghal) but for them to get to Midleton train station is a bit messy. They'd be most of the way to Glounthaune by the time they would be at Midleton train station. From Glounthaune you also get higher frequency of trains. So Midleton is not doing a great job as a P&R in practice. Glounthaune is actually very popular, I've often seen all parking spaces full, and roadside parking outside the station. In my experience a lot of those seem to drive from the East, like I describe. Little Island is also quite popular as a P&R and has a lot of available parking.

    I'm not criticising Midleton station at all here, just that the P&R aspect isn't heavily used from what I've seen.

    As I say, the best way I see to expand commuter rail towards Youghal would be incrementally via development of Mogeely. You avoid the encroachment locations, it has comparatively low costs of line and station, etc. But the low hanging fruit in East Cork is Water Rock, Carrigtwohill West and maybe soon Tivoli.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,851 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    Carrigtwohill IDA is ripe for a station now but there's nothing very much happening in Water Rock. It's a long way from being developed. I don't think there's an SHD or any form of planning in the works for that area at the moment. There'll be no station built there until there's some serious development happening.

    Tivoli is also years (decades) away from being seriously developed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    The Waterrock SHD was approved....... Edit: I think I'm wrong here: on the SHD approval, I think maybe only the transport infrastructure for development was approved, and that I conflated infrastructure and the housing in my head! The transport/water infrastructure is approved and funded in Waterrock. Work is theoretically underway, though I haven't seen anything on the ground. I see this area's development as being "real" and in the near future.

    Tivoli seems to way off alright. Unfortunately.


    Post edited by hans aus dtschl on


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,851 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    I haven't seen any SHD application for Water Rock. Do you have a link to it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    Struggling to find it myself! I'm beginning to think I conflated the detailed plan and the LIHAF approval. But I remember reading specifically that "Phase 1 has the approval to go ahead", and the units that would entail etc. I remember because I was disappointed that rail would not be in place for Phase 1. I will keep looking here, but am beginning to doubt myself!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,851 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    Isn't phase 1 referring to the infrastructure activation works with Irish water, sewage, local roads etc? I'm fairly sure there's no plans in the works for actual houses yet. Unfortunately I think it's some way off yet before we are see a housing planning application there and an even longer time again before we see a station there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    The Phase 1 is definitely the housing too, the infrastructure being done "now" is to allow Phase 1 to commence. Housing phases 2 and 3 will need further infrastructure. I don't know if the infrastructure was described in phases but rather "Projects". Sadly no sign of the railway station as a "project" yet.

    You could be right about the length of time, I think the station won't happen until phase 2 at a minimum. But I see that as being "this decade". Tivoli, not so much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    Final paragraph: "A new footbridge is also being installed at Little Island station, which will have lifts for mobility-impaired passengers. "

    There you go, Little Island will be the most likely future "change" point we've been discussing. I suspect Little island will be the de-facto Dunkettle P&R too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,851 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    If they want to turn LI into a major P&R site they need to expand the parking. Only around 80 spaces there at the moment. The original plans for Dunkettle P&R were for 400+ spaces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    You'll get another 20-30 into the Overflow too, but true. But they seem to have abandoned the original Dunkettle P&R ambitions: the proposed land was vetoes and used for the Dunkettle Interchange itself.

    The other thing is it's reasonably counter-intuitive to take M8 drivers "East in order to travel West". Little Island is also not even the optimum East Cork P&R, Glounthaune is.

    So I'd prefer any M8 P&R to be in Tivoli tbh, at least in the medium-term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ notAMember


    I'm in favour of side-by-side also, but I was left scratching my head with what ended up being the design at some of the entry and exit points on the Cork greenway. In particular, the blackrock station. There is now a reinstated bridge from one side to another. However, from the platforms they have consumed more than half of the "track" area with ramps. 2 platforms have 2 sets of steps and 3 access ramps between them. The remaining greenway space between the platforms and ramps looks like a very narrow space now.

    Very accessible for cyclists and pedestrians, but no space for future infra.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    I've seen plenty people complaining about it but haven't visited in person yet myself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭ Corkladddd!!


    Just thinking that the new free flow to the city centre will send people east to go west anyway if they want to head into Tivoli so the Little Island station would become the natural place quickly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭ hans aus dtschl


    It could, yep. My money's still on a lot of people exiting the M8 and rat-running through Glanmire though, because I know so many people doing that right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,075 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    Only way that'll happen is when they finally build a new line between Drogheda and Heuston via Dublin Airport and allow through services from Cork to Belfast via Heuston and Dublin Airport, so the existing Drogheda to Connolly line can be DART only and the Belfadt trains can move at a reasonable speed without getting stuck behind darts. But that's easily 3 or 4 bn euros and there's no political appetite for serious public transport spending yet.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Mod: Belfast to Airport to Heuston mainline train is bit too far north for this thread.

    Cork may be the Real Capital for some. but Dublin and Drogheda are yet to be classified as suburbs of Cork or part of the commuter belt of Cork.

    If you wish to, open a new thread to discuss this idea.



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