North inner city turning into war zone

startrek56

the guards are quicker to stop lads on bikes for small things like going through a red light even though there are no pedestrians walking past or going up a street the wrong way even though there is nothing coming... easy targets as most are going about their business at lunch time and are easy money for the cops which is plain wrong (even though the person on the bike has broken the law)

PhilOssophy

startrek56 wrote: »

the guards are quicker to stop lads on bikes for small things like going through a red light even though there are no pedestrians walking past or going up a street the wrong way even though there is nothing coming... easy targets as most are going about their business at lunch time and are easy money for the cops which is plain wrong (even though the person on the bike has broken the law)

I welcome Gardai punishing that too. As a pedestrian in the city, the attitude of cyclists to footpaths/pedestrian lights is the pits. But that's for another thread I think.

startrek56

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I welcome Gardai punishing that too. As a pedestrian in the city, the attitude of cyclists to footpaths/pedestrian lights is the pits. But that's for another thread I think.

yea it was more to do with the point that they will stop a cyclist (who is causing no harm whatsoever) than they will stop a drug dealer on the street who is causing issues

PhilOssophy

startrek56 wrote: »

yea it was more to do with the point that they will stop a cyclist (who is causing no harm whatsoever) than they will stop a drug dealer on the street who is causing issues

But they are causing harm. They are setting a culture where cyclists think they can do whatever they want in the city. I agree its on the minor side of wrong compared to open drug dealing etc but both should be punished. (P.S. I am a cyclist too and often feel like the only idiot waiting for lights - just because you can, doesn't mean you should).

But its not for this thread and a very tired argument on this thread.

Tombo2001

Would take on board a lot of the commentary about social disorder, but I dont like the 'them and us' narrative as if we were talking about some alien species.

People living in the city centre are part of Irish society the same as the rest of us. The city centre and the people who hang out there are a reflection of society as a whole, not just a small fragment of it.

Tombo2001

PhilOssophy wrote: »

But they are causing harm. They are setting a culture where cyclists think they can do whatever they want in the city. I agree its on the minor side of wrong compared to open drug dealing etc but both should be punished. (P.S. I am a cyclist too and often feel like the only idiot waiting for lights - just because you can, doesn't mean you should).

But its not for this thread and a very tired argument on this thread.

I dont fuppin believe my eyes - can you go anywhere any more that there isnt some punter whingeing about cyclists.

With the obligatory "I'm a cyclist myself" comment thrown in....

Sweet lord.

PhilOssophy

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I dont fuppin believe my eyes - can you go anywhere any more that there isnt some punter whingeing about cyclists.

With the obligatory "I'm a cyclist myself" comment thrown in....

Sweet lord.

Agree! But I am! But if the mods want to delete, I don't care. I fully agree its very tired....but have a look back and you'll see I didn't bring it up.

Probably best to leave at that.

Tombo2001

All can I say is, for every cyclist who breaks a red light, there are 10 or even 20 punters who give out about the cyclist braking the red light.

And as a cyclist you wont need reminding that only 2% of drivers comply with speed limits in the city centre. An issue the same punters tend to gloss over. But as you say, lets move on.

PhilOssophy

Tombo2001 wrote: »

All can I say is, for every cyclist who breaks a red light, there are 10 or even 20 punters who give out about the cyclist braking the red light.

And as a cyclist you wont need reminding that only 2% of drivers comply with speed limits in the city centre. But as you say, lets move on.

2 very dubious statistics there moving on.

startrek56

anyway, north inner city... serious issues that need addressing there

PhilOssophy

Knowing nothing as I do about drugs and coming down off them etc, is there a reason why all the treatment clinics are in the middle of the city?
I've known alcoholics and gambling addicts who've gone to clinics in the middle of nowhere, got them away from their environment for weeks/months and helped them no end.
Is this not how and where these clinics should be located? Get people totally out of their environment, try rehabilitate them, release?

Tombo2001

PhilOssophy wrote: »

2 very dubious statistics there moving on.

First statistic clearly tongue in cheek - its just how I feel....

Second one is bona fide and comes from the RSA, the opposite of dubious.

https://www.98fm.com/news/new-figures-show-2-drivers-respect-30kmph-speed-zones-920927

PhilOssophy

Tombo2001 wrote: »

First statistic clearly tongue in cheek - its just how I feel....

Second one is bona fide and comes from the RSA, the opposite of dubious.

https://www.98fm.com/news/new-figures-show-2-drivers-respect-30kmph-speed-zones-920927

Christ almighty, you are doing what you complained about 5 posts ago.

MOVE ON.

Tombo2001

startrek56 wrote: »

anyway, north inner city... serious issues that need addressing there

A lot of the time when we discuss 'problems' in Dublin, people ignore the fact that this a problem faced by 'cities' as opposed to just Dublin. Because I suppose that makes it less easy to merely blame 'incompetent politicians'.

I'd imagine cities all over europe are having a similar-ish conversation right now.

The thing is - Dublin city centre has had an issue with scangers and druggies for as long as I can remember.

It has never, not once, been an election issue. And until it is, the status quo will continue.

Tombo2001

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Christ almighty, you are doing what you complained about 5 posts ago.

MOVE ON.

Am I not entitled to answer you when you tell me I'd made a dubious point?

No?

Just nod and agree?

Ok.

PhilOssophy

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Am I not entitled to answer you when you tell me I'd made a dubious point?

No?

Just nod and agree?

Ok.

You're coming across as a "Must have the last word" sort. I see what I see on the road. Including on my bike. Muting now. Have a good one. 2 wrongs never make a right and just because you think what somebody else does is worse, doesn't make wrongdoing right.

karlitob

Rodin wrote: »

Any gardai Ive ever seen in the area particularly by the GPO have always been too busy texting on their phones to offer a deterrent.

This country needs to come to terms with treating problems aggressively. Being aggressive instead of "shure it'll be grand" does not make us analagous to the tans.

I’ve never understood the thinking that guards can prevent petty crime. While undoubtedly they use significant intelligence functions to prevent serious crimes being committed - drugs, violence etc. It doesn’t prevent the intent of those persons to commit the crime.
I can’t really see how guards can prevent junkies from stealing; or piss heads from being violent etc.
Am open to opinions on this.

riclad

Most drug users live in or near the city centre, or they may be homeless,
it would be hard to open a new drug clinic now in an area like santry.
in my experience drug users are not violent,
they go to a clinic get free drugs and needles.
they can get free food from focus cafe .
the north inner city was always rough.i dont think its any worse than it was 10 years ago.
it is a bit strange right now,
many streets are almost empty with shops and pubs ,cafes closed .
many drug users go to hostels around 11pm every night.
the hostels are located on the quays .

i don,t think the soup kitchens are anything to do with crime,
they have been there for 20 years at least.
i think dublin has 1000,s of junkies, they register with the hse and they
go to a clinic.
i think what happens to junkies is 1 they give up drugs at a certain age ,
or else they overdose ,
i,ve never seen a 60 year old junkie.
i think every large city has a problem with homeless people and junkies.
i,d prefer the gardai to concentrate on stopping serious crime than going
after cyclists for minor infringements .

i think every year theres a post like this,
dublin city is bad rough dangerous .etc
i think the gardai are doing the best they can considering they are under resourced

MarkFowler100

I was born and brought up in the North inner city. Anyone comparing it to a war zone needs to get out and travel a bit. It has it's problems sure but iv'e been to parts of the middle East and South America that are as near to a war zone as you can get. Actually there are parts right here in Europe that are truly terrifying to walk around Naples or Paris being two examples.

startrek56

MarkFowler100 wrote: »

I was born and brought up in the North inner city. Anyone comparing it to a war zone needs to get out and travel a bit. It has it's problems sure but iv'e been to parts of the middle East and South America that are as near to a war zone as you can get. Actually there are parts right here in Europe that are truly terrifying to walk around Naples or Paris being two examples.

ah yea, its definitely not a war zone, at the other end of the scale in fact, its just a bit ropey in that area...

also, i have travelled a lot on public transport around the world, never seen it as bad as what does be on the LUAS

Dublin Spur

startrek56 wrote: »

anyway, north inner city... serious issues that need addressing there

I work just off Foley street - been there about 10 years now.
Not only it's it dangerous but it's also ****ing filthy, fly tipping and human excrement all over the place. Monday mornings are particularity bad.

and lets be honest - the area it's been a ****hole since before the establishment of the state, knock the whole fcuking thing down and start again

Replace the current ghettos with respectable private owner occupied accommodation - it should cost a lot of money to live in the middle of a European capital city

Also bring Montjoy square up to the standard of Fitzwilliam or Merrion Square
It's a disgrace that it's been let go so far into disrepair.

And as for the anti-social stuff - automatic 6 month internment in Spike Island would be a good place to start for those maggots.

It's strange that no politician or party ever runs on major anti-crime / tough justice manifesto - I reckon they'd piss an election if they promised to clean up the streets with a zero tolerance approach.

If you can clean up Manhattan you can sure as hell clean up the scum triangle between the GPO, Connolly Stn and Croke Park

PhilOssophy

Surely its impossible to properly rehab people in their local environment though?
I mean, you wouldn't hold an AA meeting in a pub. Yes I know there's elements that are practically beyond help, but to me we probably need to rehabilitate people first and then move them out of Dublin and try to get them to start afresh.
I would also concur that the Luas is probably the ropiest experience on public transport I've experienced. I thought an overnight greyhound bus passing through Cleveland was the worst I had experienced but it doesn't hold a candle to the Luas.

riclad

Theres drug treatment units, but they are very limited, the waiting list to get treatment is very long.
i think sending 1000,s of drug addicts to random places around the country,
would be a disaster.
The irish medical system is heading for a crisis, retiring doctors are not being replaced in rural area,s.
right now 1000,s middle crisis of people are leaving los angeles due to rising crime and homelessness .

saabsaab

The most expensive real estate is in the central areas of Dublin but it seems that many those responsible for repeat criminality and anti social activity live nearby. Why not give their accommodation to homeless or those on waiting lists not involved in such activity?

Mollydog123

startrek56 wrote: »

rife with drugs and drug dealers operating in plain sight

Can only speak from my own experience

Tombo2001

MarkFowler100 wrote: »

I was born and brought up in the North inner city. Anyone comparing it to a war zone needs to get out and travel a bit. It has it's problems sure but iv'e been to parts of the middle East and South America that are as near to a war zone as you can get. Actually there are parts right here in Europe that are truly terrifying to walk around Naples or Paris being two examples.

Would agree with this 100%.

This is very typical social media nonsense.

Its a 'war zone', according to people who have never been next nor near to a war zone.

The reality is that junkies in the city centre
(i) have been there for a long long time
(ii) have seldom been a threat to anyone but themselves.

What we are talking about I think is that people find it distasteful. They dont want to have to look at junkies when they go to town. Its nothing more than that. But you cant say it like that, cause it makes people look a bit middle classy and heartless.

Tombo2001

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I work just off Foley street - been there about 10 years now.
Not only it's it dangerous but it's also ****ing filthy, fly tipping and human excrement all over the place. Monday mornings are particularity bad.

and lets be honest - the area it's been a ****hole since before the establishment of the state, knock the whole fcuking thing down and start again

Replace the current ghettos with respectable private owner occupied accommodation - it should cost a lot of money to live in the middle of a European capital city

Also bring Montjoy square up to the standard of Fitzwilliam or Merrion Square
It's a disgrace that it's been let go so far into disrepair.

And as for the anti-social stuff - automatic 6 month internment in Spike Island would be a good place to start for those maggots.

It's strange that no politician or party ever runs on major anti-crime / tough justice manifesto - I reckon they'd piss an election if they promised to clean up the streets with a zero tolerance approach.

If you can clean up Manhattan you can sure as hell clean up the scum triangle between the GPO, Connolly Stn and Croke Park

FFS - Foley Street has been ripped up and rebuilt. Why do you think you work there? Where did your office come from, and all the other offices? There is an art gallery there even......some fuppin slum with an art gallery in the middle of it.

So has Mountjoy Square. Do you remember Mountjoy Square in the 1980s? Its improved immensely.

Thelonious Monk

I remember me and a couple of mates walking into Foley st for some reason, probably trying to buy hash, in about 1994 and immediately set upon by a gang of youths who I think took my mates money off him. We were around 14.
It was even worse back then, an absolute kip.
Or does anyone remember the "market" that used to be on up around Cathal Brugha or Sean McDermott St? Just a load of crap thrown all over the streets, no stalls or anything. Looked like something from an Indian slum.
It was actually much more of a dive back then, it's slowly improving.

PhilOssophy

Its very hard to know what to do about it though - it can't be just a case of "throw more money in the direction of mental health services" without ever asking how the existing spend is being used.
One thing I think Dublin badly needs is more Gardai. More Gardai walking the street is something of a deterrent. I am only occasionally in the city during the day, and definitely not at night, but I don't see too many Gardai on patrol any time I am in there. If nothing else, it keeps trouble makers on their toes, and make people feel safer in the city centre.

Merowig

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Its very hard to know what to do about it though - it can't be just a case of "throw more money in the direction of mental health services" without ever asking how the existing spend is being used.
One thing I think Dublin badly needs is more Gardai. More Gardai walking the street is something of a deterrent. I am only occasionally in the city during the day, and definitely not at night, but I don't see too many Gardai on patrol any time I am in there. If nothing else, it keeps trouble makers on their toes, and make people feel safer in the city centre.

The Gardai is busy asking taxpayers if their journey is essential...

The police force and policing itself seems to have never been a priority here.