How would you rate the governments performance tackling Covid so far

malinheader

beggars_bush wrote: »

Would like to see a breakdown of where arrivals are coming from
And how many of them are returning Irish residents

That would probably be even to complicated for them to provide or make a decision on. And probably take 5 or 6 weeks to organize.

is_that_so

malinheader wrote: »

I wonder by April 5th will they have a proper quarantine service set up for the tens of thousands entering the country. Should of been implemented strictly before vaccine roll out. Simpleton is correct.

It's only planned to be from certain locations. Interning everyone would overload any system very fast.

VinLieger

is_that_so wrote: »

Leo does the same, it's just keeping the party in the loop on thinking. There's no promise in that and 10km seems even more arbitrary than 5km. In Martin's case it's how all about how he frames it, he's a worrier whereas Leo is chatty and tends to be far more positive about everything.

Thats all well and good but its just another concrete example of how their communication is an absolute shambles which just makes people more confused and thus annoyed.

malinheader

is_that_so wrote: »

It's only planned to be from certain locations. Interning everyone would overload any system very fast.

Agreed, but mandatory quarantine for no one at this stage is a joke. Hard decisions should of been made. What happens if a new variant is carried in and spread leaving the vaccine useless or less effective,which is a big possibility. Do we then start to take quarantine at points of entry serious.

RGS

I dont think a move to 10Km will assuage the public, its just another limit pick from the sky. The county limit is a better guide and far easier to police.

The latest poll is bad reading for the government.

is_that_so

malinheader wrote: »

Agreed, but mandatory quarantine for no one at this stage is a joke. Hard decisions should of been made. What happens if a new variant is carried in and spread leaving the vaccine useless or less effective,which is a big possibility. Do we then start to take quarantine at points of entry serious.

It's not really a possibility unless you're reading clueless media reports and you can't forcibly detain someone on the off chance that they might have a previously unknown variant. There are literally hundreds of thousands of variants but none of the small number of problematic variants to date can escape the vaccine-induced immune response.

Idbatterim

I have said it for years, the appalling media and appalling candidates that run for the dail, along with an apathetic electorate is a very dangerous scenario...

There is no proped leadership, you now have leadership by social media support...

malinheader

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not really a possibility unless you're reading clueless media reports and you can't forcibly detain someone on the off chance that they might have a previously unknown variant. There are literally hundreds of thousands of of variants but none of the small number of problematic variants to date can escape the vaccine-induced immune response.

As you said TO DATE. Fingers crossed. I am supposed to stay within 5k of home. Can't cross over into northern Ireland yet thousands can still fly into Ireland. Am I missing something here. Mandatory quarantine would be more of a deterrent than solution. As I said its going to take hard decisions that our government are incapable of in my eyes.

Wanderer78

malinheader wrote: »

As you said TO DATE. Fingers crossed. I am supposed to stay within 5k of home. Can't cross over into northern Ireland yet thousands can still fly into Ireland. Am I missing something here. Mandatory quarantine would be more of a deterrent than solution. As I said its going to take hard decisions that our government are incapable of in my eyes.

theres nothing truly stopping you from going beyond 5k or beyond our borders for that matter

Klonker

malinheader wrote: »

I wonder by April 5th will they have a proper quarantine service set up for the tens of thousands entering the country. Should of been implemented strictly before vaccine roll out. Simpleton is correct.

I don't get this countries obsession about quarentining arrivals in hotels and even more confusing is the government are actually trying to implement it. Like, we heard about a virus sweeping across the world last January and February that at first we thought was a lot more deadly virus than it actually is and we weren't even testing arrivals. Now, a year later when we have vaccines with better effectiveness than anyone could have expected, and we have some strains (thousands of strains so far) that there has been zero proof are any more likely to evade vaccines and no conclusive evidence its even more transmissible (rates are plummeting around the world) and now they are so worried that they are introducing quarentine hotels.

It's mental to me and no way a proportionate response. An antigen test when before you leave and that should be enough in my book. You won't catch it all but you'll catch majority of cases.

RunningFlyer

Klonker wrote: »

I don't get this countries obsession about quarentining arrivals in hotels and even more confusing is the government are actually trying to implement it. Like, we heard about a virus sweeping across the world last January and February that at first we thought was a lot more deadly virus than it actually is and we weren't even testing arrivals. Now, a year later when we have vaccines with better effectiveness than anyone could have expected, and we have some strains (thousands of strains so far) that there has been zero proof are any more likely to evade vaccines and no conclusive evidence its even more transmissible (rates are plummeting around the world) and now they are so worried that they are introducing quarentine hotels.

It's mental to me and no way a proportionate response. An antigen test when before you leave and that should be enough in my book. You won't catch it all but you'll catch majority of cases.

Completely agree with this. Not only has the horse bolted, but it has run laps at Cheltenham and won the Grand National yet the government continue to lead blindly based on social media rhetoric.

Klonker

RunningFlyer wrote: »

Completely agree with this. Not only has the horse bolted, but it has run laps at Cheltenham and won the Grand National yet the government continue to lead blindly based on social media rhetoric.

It's like the whole country has lost its collective mind. Other countries are feeling sorry for our level of restrictions while they get on with life and the majority of our population, led by a hyperbole media, looking for harsher restrictions. I'm actually embarrassed for us.

Samsonsmasher

Klonker wrote: »

It's like the whole country has lost its collective mind. Other countries are feeling sorry for our level of restrictions while they get on with life and the majority of our population, led by a hyperbole media, looking for harsher restrictions. I'm actually embarrassed for us.

When this utter lunacy is over we will find holdouts like the Japanese hiding in the jungles who surrendered decades after the war was over..

is_that_so

Klonker wrote: »

It's like the whole country has lost its collective mind. Other countries are feeling sorry for our level of restrictions while they get on with life and the majority of our population, led by a hyperbole media, looking for harsher restrictions. I'm actually embarrassed for us.

It is a fear of where Christmas brought us and having no desire to repeat that. They also want to ensure that this is the last one of these we'll have to do. In tandem with that , they are following NPHET advice to the letter, i.e. no change because this needs more time to work. For a lot of people this is how it should be but at the same time they want to know how we'll get out of this. Communicating that is the biggest political failing at present.

Dempo1

The neck on some very Ex former FG members of government, you know the ones, either lost their seats or sent to the back benches. The FG parliamentary party last night said it all, complaints about mixed messages, it would be funny if it wasn't so serious. The very party who leader excels in leakage and mixed messaging and a cohort of embittered has beens tripping over themselves to undermine the very coali they helped form and entered into. Its just shocking hypocrisy led by Regina Doherty, transferred to the seanad after loosing her Dail seat.

I'm not suggesting FF have performed admirably either but if there's any blame for mixed messaging and incompetence it can easily be found at FG"s door.

is_that_so

Dempo1 wrote: »

The neck on some very Ex former FG members of government, you know the ones, either lost their seats or sent to the back benches. The FG parliamentary party last night said it all, complaints about mixed messages, it would be funny if it wasn't so serious. The very party who leader excels in leakage and mixed messaging and a cohort of embittered has beens tripping over themselves to undermine the very coali they helped form and entered into. Its just shocking hypocrisy led by Regina Doherty, transferred to the seanad after loosing her Dail seat.

I'm not suggesting FF have performed admirably either but if there's any blame for mixed messaging and incompetence it can easily be found at FG"s door.

It's really a yearning for last year when there were only two voices, one message! Now everyone's an expert on COVID!

treade1

Sinn Fein are sitting on the fence speaking out of both sides of their mouths. Calling for further restrictions & loosening of restrictions. They are trying to appeal to everyone and are just riding it out watching FG/FF go from calamity to calamity. FF clearly started listening to the Zerocovid nutjobs at Christmas 11 months after the horse had bolted the stable. I cannot understand why MSM continue to promote what is impossible to achieve without widespread public buyin (which ended last June) or by martial law (not going to happen). In any event the North will soon be opened up. And to make things even worse these zero crazies are neither public health experiments nor epidemiologists. They have no real world experience of controlling an epidemic, even an outbreak of mumps in a school! It just shows how gullible Michael Martin is that he started to listen to their b**&sh&Te.

Tenzor07

is_that_so wrote: »

It is a fear of where Christmas brought us and having no desire to repeat that. They also want to ensure that this is the last one of these we'll have to do. In tandem with that , they are following NPHET advice to the letter, i.e. no change because this needs more time to work. For a lot of people this is how it should be but at the same time they want to know how we'll get out of this. Communicating that is the biggest political failing at present.

Of course, it seems that decision making on "living with Covid" has been handed over to NPHET... a team of Civil servants we didn't elect, can't question, and who can't be fired...people are willing to accept it in Ireland it seems..

Also no guarantees that the current lockdown will be the last, Covid will of course have a resurgence in the winter so we're likely to be subject to more snap lockdowns...and why not, the Irish public have accepted all measures almost without question so the restrictions can be applied again when Covid rises..

Dempo1

is_that_so wrote: »

It's really a yearning for last year when there were only two voices, one message! Now everyone's an expert on COVID!

And Regina an expert on Dog Poo

blackvalley

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

When this utter lunacy is over we will find holdouts like the Japanese hiding in the jungles who surrendered decades after the war was over..

Only this time they will be under the bed with Sam McConkey on repeat

Ger Roe

Deleted User wrote: »

It wasn't the government looking for a meaningful christmas, though. It was the citizens who effectively said "we're gonna have christmas whether you let us or not", and the govt. reacted accordingly.




People keep ignoring rules, then giving out when the numbers spiral and we've to lockdown again. Go back and listen to any radio, or read any media, at the start of december/end of november. Everyone was moaning and complaining they wanted a christmas. So they got it, and were told in advance it would lead to heavy lockdowns in 2021. Here are those lockdowns and the same people are still moaning. :rolleyes:

It's not their job to react accordingly. Government and leadership is about doing what is right, even if that is unpopular. They are elected and paid to make executive decisions. I didn't vote to be governed by mob rule and general public opinion. They caved in and lost the moral high ground, to follow their own mantra, they should have held firm and then at least they could say... we didn't tell you to do that.

Samsonsmasher

https://m.independent.ie/news/businesses-urged-to-hold-firm-and-save-lives-amid-campaign-to-flout-rules-40128278.html

You can smell the panic now as Varadkar et al plead with desperate business people who have had enough and heard it all before.

DessieJames

An absolute unmitigatted disaster of epic proportions is how i would rate this farce of a goverments approach to dealing with this and NPHET too while im at it.

Mixed messages, chopping /changing their minds, implementing things far far too late or not at all,draconian lockdowns, demading the garda fine/arrest people for wanting to go beyond 5 bloody kilomotres or earn a living or get on a plane is downright shocking and something you'd expect in North Korea and not a supposed open and free society.

Completely out of their depth, in all my years i cant remember a government so farcical.

PintOfView

Klonker wrote: »

It's like the whole country has lost its collective mind. Other countries are feeling sorry for our level of restrictions while they get on with life and the majority of our population, led by a hyperbole media, looking for harsher restrictions. I'm actually embarrassed for us.

And what's your plan to get the country back to normal, without hospitals being overrun, and without large numbers of excess deaths?

ShineOn7

The most upvoted post on Reddit Ireland today has some excellent points

Just because the Government made a mess of things doesn’t mean you get to ignore public health guidelines

I’ve been noticing a lot of contradictory logic in this sub for the past couple of weeks that I can’t get my head around. The logic being that the government’s “meaningful Christmas” left us in the state we are in now, and that we should protest the new lockdown by doing the very thing we criticised the government for allowing over Christmas? How does this make any sense?

I’m not talking about going to a beach by yourself that’s actually 8km away from your home rather than 5, I’m talking about meeting up with friends and family when cases are still as high as they are. It’s the reason why 5km restrictions are staying until at least April, because community transmission is still too high.

The more we break restrictions, the longer restaurants, pubs, cinemas, and sports venues stay closed.

The vaccine rollout is going well, with around 80% of adults to receive their first dose by June. It’s not long until life can go somewhat back to normal.
The government have been shítting the bed for the past few months, which is made worse by one minister telling us something one day, and another minister telling us the opposite the next, but that doesn’t give you a free pass to socialise and transmit the virus which could result in serious illness for some and potentially death.

Punish the government in the next ballot box, not by sending your friends and family to the ICU.

Akesh

ShineOn7 wrote: »

The most upvoted post on Reddit Ireland today has some excellent points

Just because the Government made a mess of things doesn’t mean you get to ignore public health guidelines

I’ve been noticing a lot of contradictory logic in this sub for the past couple of weeks that I can’t get my head around. The logic being that the government’s “meaningful Christmas” left us in the state we are in now, and that we should protest the new lockdown by doing the very thing we criticised the government for allowing over Christmas? How does this make any sense?

I’m not talking about going to a beach by yourself that’s actually 8km away from your home rather than 5, I’m talking about meeting up with friends and family when cases are still as high as they are. It’s the reason why 5km restrictions are staying until at least April, because community transmission is still too high.

The more we break restrictions, the longer restaurants, pubs, cinemas, and sports venues stay closed.

The vaccine rollout is going well, with around 80% of adults to receive their first dose by June. It’s not long until life can go somewhat back to normal.
The government have been ****ting the bed for the past few months, which is made worse by one minister telling us something one day, and another minister telling us the opposite the next, but that doesn’t give you a free pass to socialise and transmit the virus which could result in serious illness for some and potentially death.

Punish the government in the next ballot box, not by sending your friends and family to the ICU.

Ah yes, let's listen to the asylum in r/Ireland, full of believe who people who believe in magic money trees and who think the vaccine is a silver bullet.

Scaremongering nonsense with more blame the public crap.

ShineOn7

Akesh wrote: »

Ah yes, let's listen to the asylum in r/Ireland

If you want to see an online Irish asylum you can look a lot closer to the Restrictions and "When will it end?" threads on here

They've some of the nastiest individuals I've ever seen on here and I've been a Boardsie - on and off - since about 2001

There's 360,000 subscribers on Reddit Ireland. They can't all be bad

There's good and bad posters here and there's good and bad posters there. They don't have to be mutually exclusive things

Ignoring the rules now because the government made a balls of things is bit like 20 year old looking at their bad, abusive parents and saying "why should I be any different?"

malinheader

Klonker wrote: »

It's like the whole country has lost its collective mind. Other countries are feeling sorry for our level of restrictions while they get on with life and the majority of our population, led by a hyperbole media, looking for harsher restrictions. I'm actually embarrassed for us.

My view is harsher restrictions are needed for people entering the country so the rest of us who have been keeping to the restrictions might have a chance of getting our lives back.

DessieJames

PintOfView wrote: »

And what's your plan to get the country back to normal, without hospitals being overrun, and without large numbers of excess deaths?

ramp up vacinations x 100 as in 10 hours a day ,7 days a week, there's no shortage this is just iies to mask over their shocking inability to completely do any sort of job a government is supposed to do what they are supposed to do.

Akesh

ShineOn7 wrote: »

If you want to see an online Irish asylum you can look a lot closer to the Restrictions and "When will it end?" threads on here

They've some of the nastiest individuals I've ever seen on here and I've been a Boardsie - on and off - since about 2001

There's 360,000 subscribers on Reddit Ireland. They can't all be bad

There's good and bad posters here and there's good and bad posters there. They don't have to be mutually exclusive things

Ignoring the rules now because the government made a balls of things is bit like 20 year old looking at their bad, abusive parents and saying "why should I be any different?"

Well the majority of stuff posted on there is pure nonsense. I'm not saying the people are bad, I'm saying the place is an asylum and it's narrative is heavily controlled by the moderators.

You're also missing context, why does Ireland need the toughest rules in Europe? or do you think the level of rules imposed on people are ill-thought out, unsustainable and are causing huge concerns to people, who aren't being heard or consulted on any of these decisions.

People can accept decisions based on logic, science or reason but that post just falls into the narrative of "it's for the greater good" which effectively means you can't back-up why you have made these decisions.

Ireland has the most draconian lockdown measures in Europe. The chair of NPHET has a very questionable record when it comes to Public Health. Why should we accept this nonsense when it is clear we are going nowhere?

If the government, NPHET and Reddit believe a vaccine is a silver bullet then that's fine, but the rest of us want to live in a reality where we have to sustain an economy and not just accept whatever nonsense NPHET and Government decide to flip-flop towards.

You may believe in magic money trees and that the cost/benefit analysis of these decisions is worth it to "hold firm, save lives" but these measures are proving to have a drastic impact on society and our economy.

The reality is that we are going to have to learn to live with Covid, anything else is just fantasy. The zero Covid nuts need to be ignored.

nigeldaniel

I gave them a 'good' vote as considering how impossible the situation was in the beginning no one could have done better regardless of what they say. Since then there has been a few ups and downs but by the large, we are doing better than many more.

PTH2009

I'd almost spoil my vote at the next election

DessieJames

malinheader wrote: »

My view is harsher restrictions are needed for people entering the country so the rest of us who have been keeping to the restrictions might have a chance of getting our lives back.

This mass hysteria and fixation about travel is both cringeworthy and embarrassing, you are aware i assume that hardly any cases at all since last year, and even over the xmas period are attributed to travel, yet mainstream media which is effectively a mouthpiece of the government, the government themselves and NPHET have people worked up into a frenzy about travel,when the REAL problem is the governments shocking inability to have any sort of plan, slow vaccinations,no real proper track and trace system, rapid anigen testing,etc we would be in a far better position of all this would have been implemented a long time ago, as for NPHET, they are a one trick pony, clueless, their answer to everything is just lock down for as long as possible.,with no regard to the devestation and harm it causes society.

No one is denying the virus got there via travel initially before anyone knew about it, but how can anyone possibly know for sure that this was someone from up north coming down here who may have been infected,you simply dont know if it was someone coming in to Dub airport,mass hysteria nonsense, ive flew several times during this and never felt safer, and yes i did restrict my movements after i returned before you ask.

It's easier to blame travel, without any actual evidence being offered up, just embarrasing mass hysteria rubbish and the gullible people who believe all of this.

ShineOn7

Akesh wrote: »

The reality is that we are going to have to learn to live with Covid

So open up like we did in December except now the Kent variant is endemic and the Brazilian one has arrived?

I'll pass on that

Mitch Connor

ShineOn7 wrote: »

So open up like we did in December except now the Kent variant is endemic and the Brazilian one has arrived?

I'll pass on that

Why not open up like we did in October etc and try to manage the situation, rather than how we did at christmas when it became a near free-for-all.

The problem is the governemt are now running with a L5 or nothing mantra, so of course we stay in level 5. Why can't things be at L3? Why can't we start to open up as the vulnerable become vaccinated?

remember the first lock down was to provide time and space for the Hospitals to gear up (which they didn't) not to get rid of Covid.

Silentcorner

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Why not open up like we did in October etc and try to manage the situation, rather than how we did at christmas when it became a near free-for-all.

The problem is the governemt are now running with a L5 or nothing mantra, so of course we stay in level 5. Why can't things be at L3? Why can't we start to open up as the vulnerable become vaccinated?

remember the first lock down was to provide time and space for the Hospitals to gear up (which they didn't) not to get rid of Covid.

No, we should all just keep doing what this shambles of a government tell us to do, even though we all know it is a shambles...things will get better that way!!!

Tenzor07

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Why not open up like we did in October etc and try to manage the situation, rather than how we did at christmas when it became a near free-for-all. The problem is the governemt are now running with a L5 or nothing mantra, so of course we stay in level 5. Why can't things be at L3? Why can't we start to open up as the vulnerable become vaccinated?
remember the first lock down was to provide time and space for the Hospitals to gear up (which they didn't) not to get rid of Covid.

'Cos you're dealing with the "Zero Covid" crowd as you can see from the full timers who post on here..
....ZC seems to have taken over the political "opposition" in Ireland.. They'll sacrifice the Economy and peoples livelihoods to achieve it and tell you at the same time that there'll be no more lockdowns when quite obviously there will be with the ZC strategy.

We have Flu season every year with 100's of deaths, yet you never hear the ZC crowd before Covid...
Time to manage Covid instead of trying to do the impossible by Eliminating it at massive cost to every other illness out there..

Silentcorner

Tenzor07 wrote: »

'Cos you're dealing with the "Zero Covid" crowd as you can see from the full timers who post on here..
....ZC seems to have taken over the political "opposition" in Ireland.. They'll sacrifice the Economy and peoples livelihoods to achieve it and tell you at the same time that there'll be no more lockdowns when quite obviously there will be with the ZC strategy.

We have Flu season every year with 100's of deaths, yet you never hear the ZC crowd before Covid...
Time to manage Covid instead of trying to do the impossible by Eliminating it at massive cost to every other illness out there..

We managed to get zero Influenza this year, does anyone actually think that is the last we have seen of the flu?

Zero Covid is off the wall stuff...dangerously off the wall I must add.

Tenzor07

Silentcorner wrote: »

We managed to get zero Influenza this year, does anyone actually think that is the last we have seen of the flu?
Zero Covid is off the wall stuff...dangerously off the wall I must add.

The only Virus ever eliminated by Humans was Smallpox.. We won't achieve the same with Colds, Flu's and Covid anytime soon... they change too much...we'd be in permanent lockdown and vaccination cycles..

Akesh

ShineOn7 wrote: »

So open up like we did in December except now the Kent variant is endemic and the Brazilian one has arrived?

I'll pass on that

You're happy to take the advice of someone who suggests the vaccine will be effective against the Brazilian variant, which is not yet proven. What do you do if the vaccine isn't effective against the Brazilian variant of future mutations?

Your solution or recommendation is based on zero Covid and a silver bullet vaccine. Both are fantasy goals with no basis in reality.

Locking down the country away for 4k deaths is absolutely crazy. How many deaths are acceptable? How do you propose we pay for these perpetual lockdown tactics? Why not just lockdown the country for the 20 odd people that die from seasonal flu each year?

Strumms

Too afraid to come up for breadth while sucking off the corporates to give their brains the oxygen to make credible, health focused decisions that would have saved countless lives.... they literally have blood on their hands...

Ok, FG were always a bunch of grim, grimy useless corporate slimy tossbags, always will be... but FF, any legacy they might have had... out the window... Martin has been way too limp wristed, needed a leader, but between him and Leo who was ultimately delighted to jump ship let’s face it... the country were let down...

We had everything more or less in our favor, being an island nation we were laughing but fûck,.. made a balls of it, politically and socially.

is_that_so

Akesh wrote: »

You're happy to take the advice of someone who suggests the vaccine will be effective against the Brazilian variant, which is not yet proven. What do you do if the vaccine isn't effective against the Brazilian variant of future mutations?

Your solution or recommendation is based on zero Covid and a silver bullet vaccine. Both are fantasy goals with no basis in reality.

Locking down the country away for 4k deaths is absolutely crazy. How many deaths are acceptable? How do you propose we pay for these perpetual lockdown tactics? Why not just lockdown the country for the 20 odd people that die from seasonal flu each year?

200-500 actually.

ShineOn7

Akesh wrote: »

Your solution or recommendation is based on zero Covid

It's not. That's how you're interpreting it

I don't believe Zero Covid is in any way achievable in Ireland and those who do and keep making New Zealand comparisons need to have a little lie down

Akesh

ShineOn7 wrote: »

So open up like we did in December except now the Kent variant is endemic and the Brazilian one has arrived?

I'll pass on that

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's not. That's how you're interpreting it

I don't believe Zero Covid is in any way achievable in Ireland and those who do and keep making New Zealand comparisons need to have a little lie down

I don't think you know what you want. One one hand you support a Reddit post that suggests that vaccines will get life back to normal but the reality is that there is no evidence the vaccine is effective against the Brazilian variant.

But you are also opposed to opening up due to the same mutation...

Maybe too much time spend on Reddit.

ShineOn7

Akesh wrote: »

I don't think you know what you want.

And I don't think you know what you're talking about

Wanting to be cautious after our disastrous January and February doesn't mean I'm pro Zero Covid

And where is the evidence that the vaccines don't work at all on the Brazilian variants? You realise that some of the vaccines can be tweaked right?

Maybe too much time spend on Reddit.

Now you're just getting a bit unpleasant

46 Long

ShineOn7 wrote: »

The most upvoted post on Reddit Ireland today has some excellent points

The problem is not that we're ignoring the public health guidelines.

The problem is the public health guidelines and a government too spineless to reign in the crusading fanaticism of Tony Holohan and NPHET.

The media loves to pontificate about the perils of the far-right and creeping authoritarianism in other parts of the world yet when our own government strips us of basic civil liberties there isn't a peep out of them. Not a word of protest when the government decided to limit us to within 2km of our houses and force people out of jobs. Not a single critical article when they put an indefinite hold on the constitutional right of all citizens to a passport. People were arrested for walking on beaches by themselves while curtain-twitchers rejoiced and newspaper columnists tut-tutted.

For all intents and purposes NPHET and government are acting as the same entity at this point and we have sleepwalked ourselves into the most draconian, authoritarian restrictions that this country has ever seen in modern times.

Enough is enough and the public mood is already turning against them. We may have gone mad in crowds but one by one we are regaining our sanity and starting to demand an end to this charade. Blaming the public and allowing us to sit outside the pub for an orange juice in July if we're good isn't going to cut it any more.

Strumms

46 Long wrote: »

The problem is not that we're ignoring the public health guidelines.

The problem is the public health guidelines and a government too spineless to reign in the crusading fanaticism of Tony Holohan and NPHET.

The media loves to pontificate about the perils of the far-right and creeping authoritarianism in other parts of the world yet when our own government strips us of basic civil liberties there isn't a peep out of them. Not a word of protest when the government decided to limit us to within 2km of our houses and force people out of jobs. Not a single critical article when they put an indefinite hold on the constitutional right of all citizens to a passport. People were arrested for walking on beaches by themselves while curtain-twitchers rejoiced and newspaper columnists tut-tutted.

For all intents and purposes NPHET and government are acting as the same entity at this point and we have sleepwalked ourselves into the most draconian, authoritarian restrictions that this country has ever seen in modern times.

Enough is enough and the public mood is already turning against them. We may have gone mad in crowds but one by one we are regaining our sanity and starting to demand an end to this charade. Blaming the public and allowing us to sit outside the pub for an orange juice in July if we're good isn't going to cut it any more.

Civil liberties? You HAVE to stop at red traffic lights, you can’t drink 4 vodkas and drive, or do you find these laws that are also in existence to keep people well, healthy, alive are a charade and impinging in your civil liberty too..?

46 Long

Strumms wrote: »

Civil liberties? You HAVE to stop at red traffic lights, you can’t drink 4 vodkas and drive, or do you find these laws that are also in existence to keep people well, healthy, alive are a charade and impinging in your civil liberty too..?

No one is arguing for the right to run red lights or drive while intoxicated. How you manage to equate that with the fundamental right to a passport and freedom of movement is beyond me.

To borrow your shítty, straw-man analogy, the current restrictions are analogous to banning alcohol or shutting down all car travel because of the 140 odd fatalities on our roads every year.

PintOfView

46 Long wrote: »

No one is arguing for the right to run red lights or drive while intoxicated. How you manage to equate that with the fundamental right to a passport and freedom of movement is beyond me.

To borrow your shítty, straw-man analogy, the current restrictions are analogous to banning alcohol or shutting down all car travel because of the 140 odd fatalities on our roads every year.

So, just to be clear, are you saying your civil liberties trump the rights of some other people to carry on living?

Or have you some other way to return the country to normal without overrunning the hospitals and causing a lot of death that is being kept at bay by the restrictions?

doublejobbing 2

PintOfView wrote: »

So, just to be clear, are you saying your civil liberties trump the rights of some other people to carry on living?

Or have you some other way to return the country to normal without overrunning the hospitals and causing a lot of death that is being kept at bay by the restrictions?

The hospitals didn't, just about, get over run in the middle of winter when they are usually at their worst.

Why do you think this might happen in spring, when most of the vulnerable are vaccinated?